549 réponses à ce sujet

[Punk4Real]

Some good choices should backfire to keep things interesting.

Example ONE: Spare the rachni queen (good choice) or kill the rachni queen (bad choice). 

I feel the game rewards you for good behaviour way too much.
If you spared the queen, there was a good chance that the rachni would not keep their word and terrorize the galaxy once again. But obviously, that need not happen, and they became our allies.

Example TWO: Destroy the collector base (good choice) or keep it (bad choice). 

Again, there was a small chance cerebrus would keep their word and use the collector base for doing good.
But no, they turned out to be liars. Again, the good choices always win - this doesn't happen in real life.

Just a suggestion.
What do you guys think?

Modifié par Punk4Real, 04 septembre 2011 - 10:31 .

[HogarthHughes 3]

Though the two outcomes you (& the game) hint at could turn out purely bad for renegades, it may not be so.  Perhaps keeping the CB allows some of Cerberus and their army to be salvaged, or allows for the creation of some kind of anti-reaper device.  There is no way to tell yet, we just have to wait for ME3.

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 04 septembre 2011 - 10:35 .

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

Though the two outcomes you (& the game) hint at could turn out purely bad for renegades, it may not be so.  Perhaps keeping the CB allows some of Cerberus and their army to be salvaged, or allows for the creation of some kind of anti-reaper device.  There is no way to tell yet, we just have to wait for ME3.

There's always a possibility, but seeing how every piece of Reaper tech to date has ended up with indoctrination I wasn't taking the chance in my playthroughs, so no base here in ME3, if purchased.

Edit: I also spared the Rachni Queen -I'll be slightly miffed if there's double cross here, and she'll be a little dead too.

Modifié par Big_Stupid_Jelly, 04 septembre 2011 - 10:49 .

[Moonshadow_Dark]

The Rachni are on my side. They owe me.




And if they double cross me, I'll wipe them out so hard, their ancestors on Earth will feel it!

[Nashiktal]

As soon as renegade choices start backfiring let me know.

[LilyasAvalon]

Who says they won't? There's nothing stating that choices like letting Balak (from BDtS) live or rewriting the Heretics in Legion's loyalty mission won't backfire on you. I personally expect them too.

[Punk4Real]

Okay, ignoring the base, consider something else. Like saving the council. Eventhough that was the right choice, they should've been ungrateful and tossed shepard aside (not even giving him his spectre status). I would love to see renegade choices win for once.

[Punk4Real]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Who says they won't? There's nothing stating that choices like letting Balak (from BDtS) live or rewriting the Heretics in Legion's loyalty mission won't backfire on you. I personally expect them too.

Rewriting the heretics is the renegade option. And hopefully that wont backfire on us.

[LilyasAvalon]

Punk4Real wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Who says they won't? There's nothing stating that choices like letting Balak (from BDtS) live or rewriting the Heretics in Legion's loyalty mission won't backfire on you. I personally expect them too.

Rewriting the heretics is the renegade option. And hopefully that wont backfire on us.

Rewriting the heretics gave you paragon points meaning it was a 'paragon' option. Though the moralty of it is questionable.

[HogarthHughes 3]

Punk4Real wrote...

Okay, ignoring the base, consider something else. Like saving the council. Eventhough that was the right choice, they should've been ungrateful and tossed shepard aside (not even giving him his spectre status). I would love to see renegade choices win for once.

Sacrificing the Council achieves exactly what it was intended to do:  More power for humans at the expense of aliens.  How it will pan out in the long run remains to be seen.  If you think purposely allowing the leader(s) of a species/nation die in order to do a power grab is supposed to make members of said species/nation like you, then I don't know what to say.  No human Council cameo is pretty lame, but really Spectre status is pretty meaningless in ME2 and barely changes a couple lines of dialogue.

Rewriting the Heretics is the "paragon" option in that case, though really it is just as "renegade" as it is to blow them up if not moreso.

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 04 septembre 2011 - 11:07 .

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

The thing with rewriting the Heretics is that its not absolutely certain of the outcome, but as they say dead is dead.

[Blooddrunk1004]

Same goes for Balak.
He is dead in my every playthrough but that doesn't make Shepard renegade.
You either let him live, save few hostages and then Balak goes killing more innocent people or you lose hostages but you prevent him from killing more people in the future.

[Nashiktal]

The council was ungrateful, and all they did was placate a headache and forbid him from operating as a specter in council space. (So technically, his specter status is useless. You only get immunity in council space, go figure)

The few times shep pulls his specter card he's bluffing, and he does just fine without it otherwise. All "specter" status does is change a few lines of dialogue, and make one quest easier. (The one with the two asari stuck in transit)

I don't see what you are complaining about here. The renegades do not have any backfire so far, so why do the paragons need it?

[Nashiktal]

Punk4Real wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Who says they won't? There's nothing stating that choices like letting Balak (from BDtS) live or rewriting the Heretics in Legion's loyalty mission won't backfire on you. I personally expect them too.

Rewriting the heretics is the renegade option. And hopefully that wont backfire on us.

The geth decision is actually one of the few ambiguous choices in the mass effect universe, also yet another piece of evidence that the paragon and renegade bars do not work and need a revamp if not outright removed.

[Punk4Real]

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

Punk4Real wrote...

Okay, ignoring the base, consider something else. Like saving the council. Eventhough that was the right choice, they should've been ungrateful and tossed shepard aside (not even giving him his spectre status). I would love to see renegade choices win for once.

Sacrificing the Council achieves exactly what it was intended to do:  More power for humans at the expense of aliens.  How it will pan out in the long run remains to be seen.  No human Council cameo is pretty lame, but really Spectre status is pretty meaningless in ME2 and barely changes a couple lines of dialogue.

Rewriting the Heretics is the "paragon" option in that case, though really it is just as "renegade" as it is to blow them up if not moreso.

Sacrificing the council would be a bad decision I'd imagine. You know, considering in ME3, we're trying to recruit all other aliens for an all-out war against the reapers. We'll have to wait and see.

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Punk4Real wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Who says they won't? There's nothing stating that choices like letting Balak (from BDtS) live or rewriting the Heretics in Legion's loyalty mission won't backfire on you. I personally expect them too.

Rewriting the heretics is the renegade option. And hopefully that wont backfire on us.

Rewriting the heretics gave you paragon points meaning it was a 'paragon' option. Though the moralty of it is questionable.

Oh right! My bad, I didnt notice. I remember Jack telling me something like 'I would prefer death', which made me think destroying them was the paragon option.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Nashiktal wrote...

Punk4Real wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Who says they won't? There's nothing stating that choices like letting Balak (from BDtS) live or rewriting the Heretics in Legion's loyalty mission won't backfire on you. I personally expect them too.

Rewriting the heretics is the renegade option. And hopefully that wont backfire on us.

The geth decision is actually one of the few ambiguous choices in the mass effect universe, also yet another piece of evidence that the paragon and renegade bars do not work and need a revamp if not outright removed.

Yes! Instead of Paragon and Renegade the two will now be called Idealist and Cynic!

[Apple_NdiB]

I don't think any decision you made in the first 2 games will "lock you in" to an outcome in the 3rd. It just wouldn't make any sense considering how hard they're pushing ME3 as an entry point into the series. Obviously things will play out differently depending on the decisions you made but they won't be "good" or "bad" as you put it.

[Punk4Real]

Nashiktal wrote...

The council was ungrateful, and all they did was placate a headache and forbid him from operating as a specter in council space. (So technically, his specter status is useless. You only get immunity in council space, go figure)

The few times shep pulls his specter card he's bluffing, and he does just fine without it otherwise. All "specter" status does is change a few lines of dialogue, and make one quest easier. (The one with the two asari stuck in transit)

I don't see what you are complaining about here. The renegades do not have any backfire so far, so why do the paragons need it?

Maybe. But I don't know. I feel like the renegades don't really have any allies, and that could be bad for ME3.

[Nashiktal]

I don't know, they did a good job of locking on a path in ME2, and to a limited extent in ME1. Game designers just have a lot of trouble rewarding the middle ground, probably due to designing the game around two moralities.

[HogarthHughes 3]

Punk4Real wrote...

Sacrificing the council would be a bad decision I'd imagine. You know, considering in ME3, we're trying to recruit all other aliens for an all-out war against the reapers. We'll have to wait and see.

Exactly, despite some of the paragon-leaning things in ME2 (Rachni appear to be benevolent if a little weird, every squad member disapproves of preserving CB even if they had advocated preserving it in the Base ) we still don't know the full ramifications of our actions yet.

I'm hoping Bioware will have made some decent positives and negatives to each of the big decisions, or at least balance the good and bad between paragon & renegade decisions overall if they can't do the former.

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 04 septembre 2011 - 11:18 .

[Punk4Real]

My point is, the good choices always work out in the end. Spare wrex, and hey, he's successful in unifying the clans and stuff. Kill him and his brother fails to do so.
All I'm saying is they should mix up the consequences, and not have them be so predictable.

[Nashiktal]

I wouldn't call the Rachni benevolent. They took control of an Asari, planted her with hidden memories he has no control of, and seem to have indoctrinated her as much as any reaper. She points to trouble for me, and I am the one who saved her. I just hope whatever trouble she causes is worth her support in the reaper war.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Nashiktal wrote...

I wouldn't call the Rachni benevolent. They took control of an Asari, planted her with hidden memories he has no control of, and seem to have indoctrinated her as much as any reaper. She points to trouble for me, and I am the one who saved her. I just hope whatever trouble she causes is worth her support in the reaper war.

The Asari was dead at the time, and she was only 'used' to communicate with Shepherd, what else was the Rachni supposed to do?

[HogarthHughes 3]

Punk4Real wrote...

My point is, the good choices always work out in the end. Spare wrex, and hey, he's successful in unifying the clans and stuff. Kill him and his brother fails to do so.
All I'm saying is they should mix up the consequences, and not have them be so predictable.

Killing Wrex isn't quite a renegade decision, there is a renegade persuasion option which allows the player to spare him (or you can just do his side mission).

Anyways I agree completely, preferring most of the renegade decisions myself.  However it is pointless to debate outcomes that we don't know yet.  The minor decisions are worse about this though, pretty much all of the people spared turn out to be good guys or completely disempowered (Fist).  (though this was apparently not the case with Elnora at least)

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 04 septembre 2011 - 11:31 .

[Nashiktal]

Punk4Real wrote...

My point is, the good choices always work out in the end. Spare wrex, and hey, he's successful in unifying the clans and stuff. Kill him and his brother fails to do so.
All I'm saying is they should mix up the consequences, and not have them be so predictable.

They are predictable. You kill someone, they are gone. You prevented wrex from interfereing with your operations on virmie, or at least I assume that is why you killed him if you did so on purpose, if not it is a consequence of not follwoing one morality path and uprading your persuasion skill.

otherwise, if you kill someone you removed them from the game, which is the point of killing them. I can agree they shoudl vary it up more, but renegades are not punished, so why should paragons? 

Wrex is a revolutionary, you have been shown this in ME1 through is words and actions, and he is the last of his clan who thinks the same. Wreav is like the rest of the krogan, a traditionalist who keeps the status quo. Its not good or bad, in fact reviving the glory of the krogan before the galaxy is ready for them is probably a bad idea.

In that case no one is punished, unless you like wrex in which case his death is either your fault gameplay wise, or you wanted to see what was different.