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[KotorEffect3]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
Yes because project Overlord went so well without any trouble, oh wait.  Also reaper tech=indocrtination.  Indoctrination is bad.   

bub

Really? EDI indoctrianted us so badly... as did the Thanix.... And the Relay network!

The relay network led us to the citadel and the citadel is a trap.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You really should hit the Codex again.

And you should really stop being an idiot.

Indeed.  I cannot hope to ever top you in that deparment. I must humbly accept your superiority in idiocity.

If you're true with the BS, check the Rachnni codex.

Indoctrinate hte queen, and every last Rachnii is indoctrinated too.
They also multiply like crazy.. In 2-3 years, the rachnii can easily number in millions.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

And Cerberus isn't a hive mind that if you indoctrinate a queen, EVERY LAST MEMBER OF THE ENTIRE RACE gets indoctrinated too.

Arguable; independent cells might be able to go rogue, but the organisation as a whole is only able to function with the Illusive Queen at its head.

And yet indoctrinating him doesn't automaticly indoctrinate everyoen else.
And Cerberus doesn't have millions of operatives.

[Undertone]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You really should hit the Codex again.

And you should really stop being an idiot.

Indeed.  I cannot hope to ever top you in that deparment. I must humbly accept your superiority in idiocity.

If you're true with the BS, check the Rachnni codex.

Indoctrinate hte queen, and every last Rachnii is indoctrinated too.
They also multiply like crazy.. In 2-3 years, the rachnii can easily number in millions.

Millions is a vast vast underestimation considering how fast ants breed.

[sorentoft]

Personally I do not think choices should overly backfire - like the entire Rachni race suddenly turning against you. However I see no problem with a new queen (given that a few probably has been spawned the last few years) or two being indoctrinated and thus starting a civil war you(Shepard) have to take care of before the Rachni can help. So the choice backfires but not entirely.

The rewriting of the Geth may lead to more casualties for the Quarians, likewise it backfires, weakening one faction for another, but still you can recruit the Geth and Quarians.

In other words in no case is the decision going out to say "HAHA YOU MADE THE WRONG CHOICE". As it is not necessarily wrong, it is just a different path to the story.

Modifié par sorentoft, 06 septembre 2011 - 11:52 .

[Regurgitating-Ferret]

I sometimes feel that the whole paragon/renegade thing messes with the role playing a bit. A lot of the time I'm not thinking of the consequences of my choice, I'm thinking more along the lines of what choice will give me enough paragon/renegade points to keep my crew loyal.

If my choices do backfire I'll just blame the crew. "If you'd all just stop fighting" *shakes fist*

[Someone With Mass]

Undertone wrote...

Millions is a vast vast underestimation considering how fast ants breed.

Rachni aren't ants.

That's like saying salarians have about as high birth rate as salamanders just because they both happen to be amphibians.

[azerSheppard]

Regurgitating-Ferret wrote...

I sometimes feel that the whole paragon/renegade thing messes with the role playing a bit. A lot of the time I'm not thinking of the consequences of my choice, I'm thinking more along the lines of what choice will give me enough paragon/renegade points to keep my crew loyal.

If my choices do backfire I'll just blame the crew. "If you'd all just stop fighting" *shakes fist*

Some nerds don't want a persuasion that is based of players skill, they wan't a "push a button and something awesome happens" system. 

I like the combination of the two, we should have a certain persuasion skill, but we shouldn't have the P/R thing anymore, it's not somethings that works for morally gray issues.

[Robhuzz]

Regurgitating-Ferret wrote...

I sometimes feel that the whole paragon/renegade thing messes with the role playing a bit. A lot of the time I'm not thinking of the consequences of my choice, I'm thinking more along the lines of what choice will give me enough paragon/renegade points to keep my crew loyal.

If my choices do backfire I'll just blame the crew. "If you'd all just stop fighting" *shakes fist*

Indeed. That's one of the reasons I often have to just pick a certain option for the sake of not losing the loyalty of a squad member later on. Except for those two situations, there are plenty of paragon and renegade points to be earned to solve any other situation, just the point where it actually matters gets messed up if your character is 'too grey'

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Indeed.  I cannot hope to ever top you in that deparment. I must humbly accept your superiority in idiocity.

If you're true with the BS, check the Rachnni codex.

Indoctrinate hte queen, and every last Rachnii is indoctrinated too.
They also multiply like crazy.. In 2-3 years, the rachnii can easily number in millions.

Do the math. One queen lays one egg per day. ONE.

365 * 3 =/= a million.

And if they have more than one queen, it won't matter if their first queen is indoctrinated, since the other queens more than likely have a mind of their own.

[lobi]

I still say RPG should have 'Alignment choice' at start with appropriate dialogue and choices reflecting that alignment. Make xboxers get off their ass and change a disk. It's not a 14 mile cross country hike for heavens sake. And yes Paragon and renagade should have penelties for bad or mis-informed choices and not rewards for spamming a colour, some quests should lead to a worse or better outcome later, other than next quest given by different Npc if you killed the first scripted one.

Modifié par lobi, 06 septembre 2011 - 12:30 .

[Regurgitating-Ferret]

azerSheppard wrote...

Regurgitating-Ferret wrote...

I sometimes feel that the whole paragon/renegade thing messes with the role playing a bit. A lot of the time I'm not thinking of the consequences of my choice, I'm thinking more along the lines of what choice will give me enough paragon/renegade points to keep my crew loyal.

If my choices do backfire I'll just blame the crew. "If you'd all just stop fighting" *shakes fist*

Some nerds don't want a persuasion that is based of players skill, they wan't a "push a button and something awesome happens" system. 

I like the combination of the two, we should have a certain persuasion skill, but we shouldn't have the P/R thing anymore, it's not somethings that works for morally gray issues.

Legions loyalty mission is a prime example of where the
paragon/renegade system fails. How can taking away someone's beliefs be considered
a paragon act..    

Modifié par Regurgitating-Ferret, 06 septembre 2011 - 12:27 .

[Annoyed Dragon]

My view is Paragon short-term consequence with long-term benefits while Renegade is short-term benefits with long-term consequences.

Here is an example scenario a group of people are infected with a dangerous virus these people are quarantined
in facility with limited resources and lack communication means with rest of the planet what do you.

Renegade approach kills the infected incinerating their bodies, the situation is dealt with and no risk of
virus escaping the facility.  

Problem with this long-term is if you re-encounter a similar strain virus again you will be in same situation.

Paragon tries to create a vaccine with the facilities available, a risk that the virus could escape the facility
or you get infect as well.

Long-term benefits you create a vaccine that help future out-breaks.

Both have their benefits and downsides.

Modifié par Annoyed Dragon, 06 septembre 2011 - 12:31 .

[GodWood]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Do the math. One queen lays one egg per day. ONE.

365 * 3 =/= a million.

Where you pulling this information from?

Because the codex says

They are said to be able to lay an egg every few hours, resulting in an entire rachni colony within days.

[Someone With Mass]

GodWood wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
Do the math. One queen lays one egg per day. ONE.

365 * 3 =/= a million.

Where you pulling this information from?

Because the codex says

They are said to be able to lay an egg every few hours, resulting in an entire rachni colony within days.

Sorry, I read wrong.

[GodWood]

It's k

[Kaiser Shepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

And Cerberus isn't a hive mind that if you indoctrinate a queen, EVERY LAST MEMBER OF THE ENTIRE RACE gets indoctrinated too.

Arguable; independent cells might be able to go rogue, but the organisation as a whole is only able to function with the Illusive Queen at its head.

And yet indoctrinating him doesn't automaticly indoctrinate everyoen else.
And Cerberus doesn't have millions of operatives.

Not automatically, but seeing as how he is the undisputed, sole figure of authority in Cerberus I don't see anyone non-Lazarus willing to go against his orders, unless said orders would very obviously counter human progression.

And while Cerberus might not have the numbers the Paragon'd rachni have, they should be able to greatly surpass them in terms of effectiveness.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 06 septembre 2011 - 12:43 .

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

azerSheppard wrote...

Some nerds don't want a persuasion that is based of players skill, they wan't a "push a button and something awesome happens" system. 

 How's spending time in stat-screens to increase "persuasion" related to the skill of a player? And isn't passing a "persuasion check" just like "pushin a button and something awesome happens"?

I like the combination of the two, we should have a certain persuasion skill, but we shouldn't have the P/R thing anymore, it's not somethings that works for morally gray issues.

I like a system based on the decision my Shepard has made (not dumb stats). It's completely ridiculous that my Shepard cannot select the Renegade option during the Vasir hostage situation, saying something like "Hey Vasir, remember I've sacrificed the Council to kill Saren - you really think I give a damn about that pretty girl you're holding hostage?"

My Shep cheered when Sovereign wiped out the Council (they got what they deserved , but couldn't select the option coz of too few Renegade points  WTF does that have to do with Role-Playing?

[azerSheppard]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

azerSheppard wrote...

Some nerds don't want a persuasion that is based of players skill, they wan't a "push a button and something awesome happens" system. 

 How's spending time in stat-screens to increase "persuasion" related to the skill of a player? And isn't passing a "persuasion check" just like "pushin a button and something awesome happens"?

I like the combination of the two, we should have a certain persuasion skill, but we shouldn't have the P/R thing anymore, it's not somethings that works for morally gray issues.

I like a system based on the decision my Shepard has made (not dumb stats). It's completely ridiculous that my Shepard cannot select the Renegade option during the Vasir hostage situation, saying something like "Hey Vasir, remember I've sacrificed the Council to kill Saren - you really think I give a damn about that pretty girl you're holding hostage?"

My Shep cheered when Sovereign wiped out the Council (they got what they deserved , but couldn't select the option coz of too few Renegade points  WTF does that have to do with Role-Playing?

You misunderstand, when i say a persuasion that is based on players skill, i mean one in which you select a way to aproach the person in question, depending on what type of individual they are: If their easily frightened, you threaten them; if they are retarded, you fool them; if they are kind, you talk some sense into them; if they are panicking, you make em relax.
When i say it's the players skill, i mean it's your skill, how well are you at reading people, or judging their personality from a short conversation. Kinda like LA noire meets DEHR

I find the R/P thing to be a "push a button and something awesome happens" gimmick. Persuasion should not be a statistical checkpoint, in which you fail or succeed depending on the persuasion lvl.

the persuasion skill should do nothing more than show various info on the person you are talking to, show if their lying (facial recognition of micro expressions), if they are scared, bluffing etc... This way there is no direct interference and it doesn't make an automatic win. Just because you know someone is lying doesn't mean you got em where you want, how will you handle it:
1. "your a dirty liar and you need to get shot"
2. "you don't need to hide it from me, i'm trying to help you here"
3. "I don't care what you did, all i want is the information"
4. *Shoot in face* "let's see if you got something on your omnitool"

[Wulfram]

The Rachni lost their war the first time around. If a single Queen could turn them into galactic powers in 3 years with no established infrastructure, I don't see how that could happen.

IIRC when you spare the Queen, the Salarian suggests that our grandchildren might regret it. Even taking to account shorter Salarian lifespans, that's suggesting it'll take a reasonable amount of time for the Rachni to be a threat.

[Notlikeyoucare]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

azerSheppard wrote...

Some nerds don't want a persuasion that is based of players skill, they wan't a "push a button and something awesome happens" system. 

 How's spending time in stat-screens to increase "persuasion" related to the skill of a player? And isn't passing a "persuasion check" just like "pushin a button and something awesome happens"?

I like the combination of the two, we should have a certain persuasion skill, but we shouldn't have the P/R thing anymore, it's not somethings that works for morally gray issues.

I like a system based on the decision my Shepard has made (not dumb stats). It's completely ridiculous that my Shepard cannot select the Renegade option during the Vasir hostage situation, saying something like "Hey Vasir, remember I've sacrificed the Council to kill Saren - you really think I give a damn about that pretty girl you're holding hostage?"

My Shep cheered when Sovereign wiped out the Council (they got what they deserved , but couldn't select the option coz of too few Renegade points  WTF does that have to do with Role-Playing?

I think a "persuasion" skill would work wonders in ME 3. Instead of being locked out of certain dialouge choices based on past descisions, the dialouge option would always be there, but depending on your skill, the effectiveness would be different. Yeilding stronger or weaker results depending on how skilled you are. This wouldn't punish players for not following a certain mindset throughout the whole game. Sadly though, that's never going to happen.

Modifié par Notlikeyoucare, 06 septembre 2011 - 01:18 .

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

@ azerSheppard, my bad. I thought you prefered a system based on skillpoint distribution only.

I'm not a fan of a system that revolves around filling a bar or investing skillpoints - that's way too simplistic and I don't consider that role-playing. Having more options during conversations (like in your example) would be great. But those options should be related to stuff you (or the character you're playing) has done in the past, how (s)he has treated others, and how (s)he repons to the person (s)he's having a conversation with.

[azerSheppard]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

@ azerSheppard, my bad. I thought you prefered a system based on skillpoint distribution only.

I'm not a fan of a system that revolves around filling a bar or investing skillpoints - that's way too simplistic and I don't consider that role-playing. Having more options during conversations (like in your example) would be great. But those options should be related to stuff you (or the character you're playing) has done in the past, how (s)he has treated others, and how (s)he repons to the person (s)he's having a conversation with.

Agreed, if you shot the last 3 guys that lied to you, you should have the option to say as much.

[Niddy']

ALL renegade choices should backfire.

[sorentoft]

Someone With Mass wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
Do the math. One queen lays one egg per day. ONE.

365 * 3 =/= a million.

Where you pulling this information from?

Because the codex says

They are said to be able to lay an egg every few hours, resulting in an entire rachni colony within days.

Sorry, I read wrong.

Well. If we convert 'every few hours' into 1 egg per 2 hours all we have to do is add 12 to the equation.

365 * 12 * 3 = 13140

So to get a million you would need around 100 queens all laying eggs 24/7 (probably more as the new queens has less time to reproduce). Or 297 more years for the single queen (a bit less than 297, but I am just rounding it to 10.000 for the sake of making it easy). That is not taking deaths into account either.

Modifié par sorentoft, 06 septembre 2011 - 01:33 .