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[Kaiser Shepard]

Zu Long wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

So not only does Bioware need to provide you with alternative content on the offchance you have killed everyone on the planet that was infected, they have to figure out a reason for Lizbeth to be on Illium waiting there for you which doesn't involve the colonists.

Here's the thing.

Take the Shiala scene where all the colonists died, add in Liz! Problem solved! She has the same reasoning as Shiala too! Damn, that was difficult to think of.

But Lizbeth was never actually infected... so she can't have the same reason.

Because obviously Lizbeth doesn't care about her people, nor would that provide her with a reason to go instead of them.

[TheOptimist]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Here's the thing.

Take the Shiala scene where all the colonists died, add in Liz! Problem solved! She has the same reasoning as Shiala too! Damn, that was difficult to think of.

Except Shiala still had the same reason for being there, namely the intrusive scans of her.  Lizbeth has no such reason, never having been infected.  So they have to write an entirely new reason for Lizbeth to be there and a corresponding assignment, and get her voice actor back cause god knows if they didn't it means they don't care about continuity, and then deal with all the whining from people who wanted to meet her AND Shiala, etc.  I repeat, Bioware can't win.

[NICKjnp]

It seems like people are more angry the way that renegades are treated and taking itout on paragons. Rather than demand that paragons be punished you should be asking that renegades be rewarded.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Zu Long wrote...

If all solutions have the same result, then what's the point of the choice?

Equality. And the result isn't the same, it's just different tastes of the same product.

[Zu Long]

Seboist wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

So not only does Bioware need to provide you with alternative content on the offchance you have killed everyone on the planet that was infected, they have to figure out a reason for Lizbeth to be on Illium waiting there for you which doesn't involve the colonists.

Here's the thing.

Take the Shiala scene where all the colonists died, add in Liz! Problem solved! She has the same reasoning as Shiala too! Damn, that was difficult to think of.

But Lizbeth was never actually infected... so she can't have the same reason.

Like Shiala she had a hand in the misery of the colonists. It makes perfect sense for her to be there to atone for her sins by looking after them.

And ask for help from the person who refused to assist her in actually saving people by using the gas grenades she provided?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lizbeth is a perfect replacement for Shiala. If you won't admit this then you are just being stubborn.

That or you're a moron. I think that's it.

Way to keep it civil saphra,stay classy.

[Zu Long]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lizbeth is a perfect replacement for Shiala. If you won't admit this then you are just being stubborn.

That or you're a moron. I think that's it.

Unless you remember that she's the one who asked you to save the colonists in the first place. Assuming you didn't, why is she going to ask you for help again?

[Seboist]

If Liz was Shiala's replacement and also an implied light romance in ME3 I would gladly kill the latter in all my playthroughs.

[darthnick427]

Paragons are more about preserving the galaxy as a whole including keeping the races united.

Renegade is more about humanity first. Of course most renegade decisions are gonna bite you in the ass.

However, I believe that a few paragon decisions (at least a few in ME3) will back fire. So you'll get your wish at least to some extent

[Seboist]

NICKjnp wrote...

It seems like people are more angry the way that renegades are treated and taking itout on paragons. Rather than demand that paragons be punished you should be asking that renegades be rewarded.

I've been advocating for each choice to have both positives and negatives for a long time.

[TheOptimist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lizbeth is a perfect replacement for Shiala. If you won't admit this then you are just being stubborn.

That or you're a moron. I think that's it.

Oh ad hominem, your ubiquitous use never ceases to amaze me.

[TheOptimist]

Seboist wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

It seems like people are more angry the way that renegades are treated and taking itout on paragons. Rather than demand that paragons be punished you should be asking that renegades be rewarded.

I've been advocating for each choice to have both positives and negatives for a long time.

Except you also argue that Renegade also gets negatives already, so only Paragons should have their decisions punished.

[Zu Long]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

If all solutions have the same result, then what's the point of the choice?

Equality. And the result isn't the same, it's just different tastes of the same product.

So killing and not killing the Blue Suns Mechanic should have equal results? Or the Eclipse Squad in Miranda's mission?

I kind of preferred the outcome where when I killed them, they were dead, and it had an effect on the remainder of the mission.

[Seboist]

darthnick427 wrote...

Paragons are more about preserving the galaxy as a whole including keeping the races united.

Renegade is more about humanity first. Of course most renegade decisions are gonna bite you in the ass.

However, I believe that a few paragon decisions (at least a few in ME3) will back fire. So you'll get your wish at least to some extent

Nope, plenty of renegade choices benefit aliens like the Quarians gain from the destruction of the heretics and the Krogan from preventing the Rachni's rebirth.

If the outcomes would been properly thought-out then non-citadel aliens would have had Renegade Shepard's back and been suspicious of Paragon Shepard who they'd suspect of being a stooge for an entity that cause plenty of grief in the past(the Council).

[Dave of Canada]

TheOptimist wrote...

Except Shiala still had the same reason for being there, namely the intrusive scans of her.

Shiala isn't there only for the intrusive scans, she's there to help Feros. She's there even when you've killed everybody. Liz has the same reasoning to try and help Feros (atonement) as Shiala, has the same objectives and could very well fit the spot.

People want to see both? Oh boy, more replayability for both ME1 and ME2! What company doesn't want that?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 septembre 2011 - 04:42 .

[Yakko77]

Some have suggested that freeing the Rachni Queen could backfire. I see no reason to think so. It is made clear the only reason there was a war with them is Reaper instigation. They have just as much reason to want to fight the Reapers as the rest of the galaxy, more so even given their near extinction as a result of that war. Plus, if they only wanted to bite us in the butt, no reason to send that Asari to say "thanks" on Ilium.

[Marionetten]

darthnick427 wrote...

Renegade is more about humanity first.

Not really unless you'd consider eradicating a human colonly to play into that agenda. I play a pro-human Shepard and a lot of renegade choices are completely incompatiable with that as it involves screwing over humans just as much as aliens.

The kid with the gun on Omega is the perfect example of just how messed up renegade and paragon currently is.

Modifié par Marionetten, 07 septembre 2011 - 04:58 .

[Zu Long]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Unless you remember that she's the one who asked you to save the colonists in the first place. Assuming you didn't, why is she going to ask you for help again?

She still respects what you did regardless.

She respects you for taking down the creeper. That doesn't mean she thinks you're going to care about her or the other colonists on Feros. Given that you didn't care enough to use the grenades the first time, why would she think you would care enough to talk to somebody on her behalf? It just doesn't make a lot of sense for my money.

[Dave of Canada]

She'd ask for Shepard's help the same reason Shiala does in that case, they have no other options.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 septembre 2011 - 04:58 .

[Zu Long]

Dave of Canada wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Except Shiala still had the same reason for being there, namely the intrusive scans of her.

Shiala isn't there only for the intrusive scans, she's there to help Feros. She's there even when you've killed everybody. Liz has the same reasoning to try and help Feros (atonement) as Shiala, has the same objectives and could very well fit the spot.

People want to see both? Oh boy, more replayability for both ME1 and ME2! What company doesn't want that?

Dave, she's there even when you killed everybody else because SHE is still infected. And green. Liz is neither.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Zu Long wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

If all solutions have the same result, then what's the point of the choice?

Equality. And the result isn't the same, it's just different tastes of the same product.

So killing and not killing the Blue Suns Mechanic should have equal results? Or the Eclipse Squad in Miranda's mission?

I kind of preferred the outcome where when I killed them, they were dead, and it had an effect on the remainder of the mission.

End of mission decisions =/= killing a random merc or two.