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[TheOptimist]

Future Guy wrote...

The series is just too idealistic to punish any selfish and/or self righteous decisions, like saving the Rachni Queen for example.  I'm sure a lot of people couldn't rp their Shepard and kill the Rachni Queen without it affecting their conscience, and this being the sole reason for saving it, which is selfish if you think about it, and self righteous as well.  Because you're gambling with other people's live to satisfy your own conscience and make yourself feel better.  But that's how this game is though.  It just isn't going to punish the self righteous.

Wait, what's unrealistic or selfish about playing a Shep that does not believe in Sins of the Father?

[TheOptimist]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

There ARE major differences

You obviously haven't played Alpha Protocol...

Nope.

But I get it. You're a fan.

[Someone With Mass]

While Paragons are playing with people's lives, Renegades are just taking people's lives instead.

[Zu Long]

Future Guy wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...
Wait, what's unrealistic or selfish about playing a Shep that does not believe in Sins of the Father?

Do you know for a fact without meta-gaming, that the Queen has no culpability in either the past or present situation, and that freeing her poses no risks to more lives lost, such as another war?

If this a given, then it shouldn't be a renegade or paragon decision, or a decision at all, unless the decision to kill the Queen is simply made out of...revenge, perhaps.  If that's the case, then all of this is academic.

Without metagaming, we KNOW that her egg was discovered, unhatched and intact, quite recently. The scientists at Peak 15 tell us so. We also know that she wasn't allowed near her eggs, and she actually begs you to put them out of their misery. Beyond that, we know she's been trapped in a cage being experimented on.

Assuming you are playing a Shepard who is against punishment for sins committed by others, you have no real basis on which to kill her, since at worst she is guilty of trying to escape from her imprisonment, which just about any sentient creature would.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Take one life and safeguard countless others.

You do the math.

You know that for sure? Have you read the script? 

You are 100% sure that gunning down those salarians in cold blood on Virmire or the colonists on Feros will save "countless others"?

Renegades are playing with people's lives just as much as Paragons do, so keep your hypocrisy to yourself.

[Dave of Canada]

I stand before the last of the Rachni, a species which had devastated the galaxy and played a crucial part in the rise (and fall) of the Krogan. She pleads to me, she claims innocence and that her ancestors were under control. Benezia just told me about that.

Did she overhear our conversation? Benezia did mention that Rachni have the memories of their mother, how do I know this creature isn't trying to decieve me? What if I'm responsible for another Rachni Wars, how many would die due to my foolish trust?

I apologize, I do what must be done.

[Zu Long]

Saphra Deden wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Wait, what's unrealistic or selfish about playing a Shep that does not believe in Sins of the Father?

Why do Paragons always tout this as the Renegade reasoning? That is not the reason the queen is killed. It has nothing to do with her species past and everything to do with her biology. It's not what she did or didn't do in the past, its' what she could do in the future.

The queen is dangerous, period. I'm not punsihing the queen, I'm protecting people from an unknown rather than playing god to satisfy my ego.

It has less to do with satisfying ego and more to do with ethics. Punishing someone who isn't actually guilty of anything is just murder, whatever high rhetoric you try to use to justify it.

[Dave of Canada]

Zu Long wrote...

Punishing someone who isn't actually guilty of anything is just murder, whatever high rhetoric you try to use to justify it.

Except that she has all the memories of her mother which participated in the Rachni Wars and tried to destroy the galaxy not too long ago, now she's pleading for her life and saying her ancestors were under control. People will say anything at gun point to justify saving their lives and you're going to trust the beast who has the memories of how everybody absolutely love Rachni?

If you let it go, it turns around and kills thousands of people... would that be justified? Would you point and say "That isn't my fault, she told me she was innocent. I'm not to blame for those deaths"?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 septembre 2011 - 06:17 .

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

If I read the script it would be meta-gaming. That would make me a Paragon. I play Renegade.

No, that would make you a pompous twerp who thinks that you have the right to take anyone's life just because you think you know the outcome. Guesswork.

Perhaps you have a lame excuse to threaten to shut down people's stores and business too?

[Zu Long]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Assuming you are playing a Shepard who is against punishment for sins committed by others, you have no real basis on which to kill her, since at worst she is guilty of trying to escape from her imprisonment, which just about any sentient creature would.

You have every basis sto kill her, you ****ing idiot!

Her biology is what makes her dangerous! She can produce offspring and an astonishing rate. These beings are dangerous enough naked that they were able to overrun two Alliance listening posts and break out of conaintment at two locations.

You have no way of knowing whether she is being truthful to you or not. She could have been using her offspring to try and break herself out. After all, why else did they keep attacking rift station? If the Reapers controlled the rachni in the past then why did Sovereign need the queen to get the location of the Mu relay? What does a "tone from space" mean anyway? That's gibberish as far as I'm concerned.

For all I know if I release her she'll lay a bunch of eggs and in a few weeks Noveria will be infested with rachni.

Forever dealing in hypotheticals, you always reach for illusionary future innocents to justify your present attrocities. What you KNOW is that this creature in front of you hasn't actually DONE anything beyond possibly try to escape wrongful imprisonment. The rest is supposition either way.

[Zu Long]

Future Guy wrote...

Zu Long wrote...
Without metagaming, we KNOW that her egg was discovered, unhatched and intact, quite recently. The scientists at Peak 15 tell us so. We also know that she wasn't allowed near her eggs, and she actually begs you to put them out of their misery. Beyond that, we know she's been trapped in a cage being experimented on.

Assuming you are playing a Shepard who is against punishment for sins committed by others, you have no real basis on which to kill her, since at worst she is guilty of trying to escape from her imprisonment, which just about any sentient creature would.

Which brings us back to what I originally said.  

You said: "Assuming you are playing a Shepard who is against punishment for sins committed by others", which is itself a selfish reason, because you're placing personal ideology above everything else.  You're deciding to set the Queen free to clear your own conscience.  You're aware of what the Rachni did , and you're ignoring the risk a future Rachni population may pose, and you're taking a gamble to satisfy this.  

And you're killing an innocent person to salve your own fear. Or bloodlust, depending on how you justify it to yourself.

[Dave of Canada]

Someone With Mass wrote...

No, that would make you a pompous twerp

Can you do any single post without typing "twerp"? It's getting old, get a new buzzword.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 septembre 2011 - 06:22 .

[Zu Long]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Forever dealing in hypotheticals, you always reach for illusionary future innocents to justify your present attrocities. What you KNOW is that this creature in front of you hasn't actually DONE anything beyond possibly try to escape wrongful imprisonment. The rest is supposition either way.

Sometimes you can't afford to be wrong.

Sometimes you have to do what's right.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Zu Long wrote...

And you're killing an innocent person to salve your own fear. Or bloodlust, depending on how you justify it to yourself.

Rachni cannot be treated like people, they are not like you and me.

[Dave of Canada]

Zu Long wrote...

Sometimes you have to do what's right.

Exactly, that's why she dies.