549 réponses à ce sujet

[Yezdigerd]

As other have said, the extinction of species doesn't seem to be something a spectre should make decisions about. The real problem is that the Rachni isn't a present threat. If the queen can reclaim and repopulate the rachni empire in a couple of months then yes, but surely she needs resources to breed?, the Turian councillor says generations which would give plenty of time to deal with them. And if the Rachni are considered a truly unrelentingly force of destruction then why would Shep listen to her, or the queen try to explain herself?
Basically the renegade option is giving in to an paranoic fear. Compare the rachni with the turian species.
The Turians have a history of war with humanity, the Rachni don't.
The Turians has a massively superior military advantage over humanity, the Rachni have no military at all and consist of the one individual basically.
The Turians are known for being implacable opponents, well I guess the same goes for the Rachni.

Ergo there are a better reason to kill off all Turians if Shep got the opportunity.

I also kinda sad how Bioware makes the killing of the queen so unquestionable vile, by letting renegade Shep mock her while he torture her to death with acid. The one time I did it, I just had to reload.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Thyphoon what did I say that confused you?

[Lee337]

Future Guy wrote...

You can argue forever on some of these, and both sides will still have valid arguments.  These decisions are quandaries.  As I was saying earlier, it's idealism versus realism.  The Collector Base, the Geth, Tali's trial, etc.  You can find fault with both sides.  There are a few stupid ones on each end as well, that a lot of people will agree that are just wrong.  I can't think of them off the top of my head right now.

Yeah, none of the choices are clear cut. People often look at the Rachni queen as paragons thinking, I can't kill her, she's innocent, and as she might start a war as Renagades.
I'll admit for the first playthrough, I knew very little about them at the time. I still thought Sovreign was a geth ship at this point and as such went with Liara's suggestion.
After finishing ME2, the decision isn't like that so much. It's if the rachni are likely to become friends or allies in the fight against the Reapers. They can rebuild quicky, and if they remain allies are likely to be able to contribute to the way and perhaps turn the tide. The queen seems sincere when talking of living in harmony. She doesn't know why they went to war before. Sovreign is dead and the collectors are gone. There's no one left to indoctinate the rachni until the reapers arrive, or unless the queen somehow stumbles on a reaper artifact. Which is unlikely I feel. The reapers might know about the rachnis possible survival, but the rachni are in hiding. The reapers would have to search for them and that would take a long time.
So my conclusion is that that it is unlikely for the Rachni to become hostile in such a short period of time, and so I let the queen live for possible aid against the reapers. This choice may have negative outcomes in the future, but the reapers are the bigger danger.

[Dave of Canada]

Golden Owl wrote...

How to do this without such a massive risk, I don't know, it would certainly need to be insideous and well planned out.

It's 4:00AM, I'm tired so apologies if it doesn't make much sense.

No such thing as no massive risk in this case, unfortunately. Though what I'd do would be considered monstrous by the average person and would probably play a dangerous game, though it would almost all be run through Cerberus (though not use them too much in fear that they'd catch on).

The entire plan is hinged on everybody listening to Shepard and every piece falling into place perfectly, any change would possibly manipulate the overall plan a little bit (though it should be capable of being set back on tract quite easily).

Assuming Cerberus is indoctrinated like all sources seem to point out but they've done a lot of research on the Collector Base, I'd focus on eliminating Cerberus and taking control of it's resources. This allows Shepard to remain hidden under The Illusive Man's tag, Shepard can cause a lot more destruction as Cerberus leadership than he ever could while playing his role as Hero (who'll denounce his ties to Cerberus in public at the trial).

The first focus wouldn't be the Turian's fleets (we need those now), we'd have to somehow play the Turian mindset of honor. What's the best way to enrage the hornet's nest? Stir the hive. Cerberus Infiltrators would be sent to Palaven, sent with special suits that have hidden... "features".

They'd plant bombs (which would be shaped like usual Reaper-tech) at strategic locations throughout Palaven (and other turians colonies), large public centers and the like, which will be filled with the Collector's plague from Omega (ME2). This would create a large epidemic among the Turians and any other species which lives on Palaven at the same, they'd be largely eliminated and Palaven will be in complete disorder.

Though none of these strategic locations will be near any political or military installations (though I'd like to place one or two nearby, so they can't notice the pattern when examining the contaminated areas) allowing the Turians to watch in horror as Palaven is falling apart.

This is the part where "Hero" Shepard comes in, brings with him human squadmates and examines what's causing this "Reaper" plague. Turians cannot investigate the infected areas and they're unlikely to have any humans/vorcha nearby which they could call upon (due to their distrust / hatred for humans), we'd be the only ones they'd be able to send in.

Shepard at this point activates the special "features" of the Cerberus Infiltrator suits, causing an indoctrination signal to come out from it and indoctrinate the operatives. One would be eliminated by Shepard, his/her body dragged to the Turians.

The operatives are indoctrinated for multiple reasons:
They are stranded, they can't do -anything-. The shuttles which dropped them off are under Shepard's command and they aren't going to come back.
They aren't going to foil Shepard's plan, this removes any loose end.
The other operatives will be gun crazy and gunning down random Turians who'd survive the plague, this would make it seem like Indoctrinated Cerberus played a part in this after all.
If there's any physical trace of indoctrination, it'll be there if they examine the body.

What will the Turians do upon witnessing this? They aren't the kind of people who'll sit on their asses all day and complain how the world sucks, they'd be furious. Bring in Mordin, who'll cure the plague again and the Turians might feel they owe Shepard for all he's done for them.

Unlikely: If they somehow have empty spots onboard their ships, I'd try to get Cerberus operatives onboard as crew with explosives (though they'd think this only the anti-Turian gas bombs) to be activated should ever  things don't work as wanted and should a few Turians prove themselves indoctrinated and working with the Reapers at the last minute.

This accomplishes multiple things:

• No traces back to "Hero" Shepard.
• The operatives are eliminated, removing any trace of Shepard's involvement (though they wouldn't know it's Shepard, he'd try to pull off a takeover similar to what Liara did to the SB).
• The Turians are following Shepard.
• Palaven and other Turians colonies are ruined, any source of Turian civilians rising up to fight humanity is unlikely.

Now we'd be reaching the difficult part, using the Turians to our full advantage but making sure they aren't going to pose a main threat to humanity (if we win). Shepard leads the Turians throughout the Galaxy, saving the other species who'd pose no threat to humanity (Volus, Hanar, Elcor, Drell, Krogan, Vorcha what have you. Hanar / Elcor / Drell / Krogan are disposable should we really need resources, Volus and Vorcha are too crucial to the future to abandon.).

I'd mark Salarians and Asari as threats, though Asari are extremely disorganized in terms of military and Salarians have shown signs of being fine with humanity. Having the Turians at our side though, they'd also be more willing to tag along (as it isn't only humanity who's asking for their help).

Any signs of uncooperation could easily be rectified by manipulating the indoctrinated Cerberus operatives through Shepard's "The Illusive Man" alterego. Mention that "Shepard" is on Thessia or Sur'Kesh (when he isn't) and they'd likely chase after the lead.

Unable to defend themselves, Shepard could examine the fight between Thessia / Sur'Kesh and determine when would be the right time to jump in and save them. Think of this scenerio similar to the Destiny Ascension scenario from Mass Effect 1, the difference is that everything is rigged for Shepard's favor. 

Assuming the Reapers aren't total morons and won't fall into the trap a second time, I doubt we'd need to do much convincing for the Asari/Salarians to jump along and assist us, as we'd have two of the three original Council races backing us up.

Followed by the Citadel races, we'd have a pretty large fleet and I'd feel comfortable charging to Earth (Krogan, Hanar, Drell and such don't really have much of anything to fight with. Krogan and Vorcha might help on foot, though we're not going to be fighting the war there.

Considering we still won't have much of a chance at facing the entire Reaper fleet head on, I'd focus more on using the entire combined fleet to pick off stragglers. Any Reaper we'd be able to successfully take down is one we might not need to fight in a group later, the war is a slow effort but Shepard is essentially in the "clear".

*insert tactics to fight Reapers, too tired to type now after writing all of this*

We lose: Welp, we've lost. Nothing we can do now.

We win: While the Reaper numbers are dwindling, we'd slowly start exploding Turian vessels with the planted bombs (if they were implanted) as if they were damaged by weapons fire. They'd never outright destroy the vessel, simply damage different compartments (killing their crew) and make it inoperational or ineffective.

We've won!
Turians can feel like big damn heroes and rebuild at the same pace as everybody else.

Asari can do... whatever the Asari do, though Shepard-run Cerberus would be devoted to try and somehow claim a lot of Eezo for the Human Council.

Salarians can be put into our pocket with the Volus, the STG could be used for "legit" indoctrination studying of Reaper corpses. Volus keep track of the galaxy's economy and makes sure the Human Council has the resources to do what it pleases.

Human Council rules the galaxy, ruling everything with a singular voice and not allowing petty arguments jump in the way of their conclusion. They (possibly) might be corrupt and benefit only themselves, though they'd still be better than the all-alien Council which only strived to work argue amongst themselves or benefit one of the "trio" (while the Human Council would have no bias toward any other species).

Humanity has Shepard-run Cerberus to watch and make sure the other species never directly confront the Human Council or advance too far into Reaper tech studies and that "Indoctrinated Stragglers" keep attacking colonies / homeworlds through the universe and prevent quick rebuilding, a few of them would attack human colonies / locations to hide the pattern but not be put in positions to cause a lot of harm.

Human Council establishes a large ceremony to celebrate the dead, revealing a statue dedicated to the deceased and saying they gave their lives for us to be alive today. A portion of the "Human Council
"(Cerberus)'s resources can be spread to the other species as a gesture of "good will".

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 septembre 2011 - 08:31 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Zu Long wrote...

Future Guy wrote...

Zu Long wrote...
We do know for certain that she's been in a cage her whole life, and hasn't done anything wrong- ie innocent. And killing someone for something they haven't done yet is calculating, not logical. There's a difference.

It's quite logical to assume that the Queen can be the precursor to a future Rachni army.   It's also logical to assume that the possibility exists that this army may indeed be hostile like it was before, and start another war.  We know now that this isn't the case, but that's meta-gaming.  

All the assumptions and maybes and cans in the world don't erase the fact that you are murdering an innocent. Try as you might, your justifications are but hollow constructs built to overshadow the truth of the situation- Whatever MAY happen, what you KNOW is that she personally has done nothing to deserve death.

Deserve has little to do with it. Safety of the Galactic community is at stake. The job of a Specter is not to be a shining example of morals - it's to do whatever it takes to safeguard the citadel races.
A Specter is not a paladin - he's CIA/FBI with a lot more power.

While I personally spared the Rachnii queen in my playtrough, I fully expect to bite me in the ass.
It was a very big gamble to take on my part.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Zu Long wrote...
And we do know she's innocent. She's been in that cage her whole existance.
You ignore innocence or guilt at your peril. You've established that you give in to fear rather than face the responsibility of doing what is right. Nothing more.

Giving in to fear? Aren't you the one giving into emtion?

You constantly preach hpow it's the "right" thing to do, how it's the "moral" thing to do.
The other debating here are asking if its' the smart thing to do or if that's what a Specter should do.

You're arguing emotinal reposnses and innocence.
They argue duty and cold pragmatism.

Which is more self-serving?

[Seboist]

My canon Shepard freed the queen because she wanted the Rachni as a human ally against the three council races not due to having some moral dilemma about killing her or for being self-righteous. It's similar to how she rewrote the Heretic Geth because she felt she needed all the manpower she can muster against the Reapers despite hating the idea of empowering the Geth.

Unfortunately the game pigeon holes my Shepard into the do gooder feel good idealist path.

[Lee337]

Future Guy wrote...

Lee337 wrote...
snip

I think I killed her the first time.  The best I recall, I was wondering if she might attack me after I let her out of the cage.  I remember Wrex talking about the millions of Krogan that died putting them down, and said don't let them come back.  Liara was convincing as well.  I let her go the next time.

I think I killed Shiala the first time too.  Of course after she dropped to her knees and put her hands behind her head, I wished that I hadn't have.  I never regretted killing Rana Thanoptis.

I remember whenever I first played the game, that I treated my enemies...as the enemy.  You know?  We weren't given a chance to arrest Shiala or Rana, or call the Alliance up and ask them to come pick up this Rachni Queen in the cage.  There was this sense of urgency and impending danger looming over my head, and I didn't have all of the pieces together yet.  I didn't want these decisions coming back to bite me in the ass.  

I later found out that that's not how this game works, though. 

I let Shiala live, because after telling me about the indoctrination and seeing it was easily plausable since the thorian did it, I figured that giving me the cipher meant that she wasn't under the influence anymore. I mean, if she was, she'd rather have died than give me a vital clue, Without that cipher, Shep wouldn't have figured out he had to get to Ilos in time.

I'd liked to have arrested Rana but she helped too and just seemed like a niave idiot, so I let her live. A
I agree with Kaidan, not sure why we couldn't just do nothing and let the council decide. Probably because Noveria isn't in council space but sending a message to Joker and getting him to contact the council should of been possible.

I didn't save the council though, I chose concentrate on sovreign. I rewrote the geth because blowing them up wouldn't stop the heretics not in the station. I hoped rewriting would rewrite them all via the networking. Also pushed the Quarians not to go to war and I'm hoping legion can help negotiate peace between them and allow the Quarians to return to thier homeworld and live together with the geth.

I blew up the Collector ship. I completely agree that it should be studied, but by this point of playing I knew there would no getting the alliance involved choice, Bioware must have thought it would be the obvious choice.

I still push the eclipse merc out the window and make the batarian bartender drink his poison. I resisted punching the reporter, but did renagade choice her. I tend to end up with paragon and renagade bars in ME2 being aboout half half, paragon slightly edging. ME1 ends up being full paragon and 5 bars renagade.

[Lee337]

Seboist wrote...

My canon Shepard freed the queen because she wanted the Rachni as a human ally against the three council races not due to having some moral dilemma about killing her or for being self-righteous. It's similar to how she rewrote the Heretic Geth because she felt she needed all the manpower she can muster against the Reapers despite hating the idea of empowering the Geth.

Unfortunately the game pigeon holes my Shepard into the do gooder feel good idealist path.

Even it out by pushing people out windows and shooting people named Conrad in the foot.

[Undertone]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Beautiful... Alas it won't happen.

Modifié par Undertone, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:25 .

[Seboist]

Lee337 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

My canon Shepard freed the queen because she wanted the Rachni as a human ally against the three council races not due to having some moral dilemma about killing her or for being self-righteous. It's similar to how she rewrote the Heretic Geth because she felt she needed all the manpower she can muster against the Reapers despite hating the idea of empowering the Geth.

Unfortunately the game pigeon holes my Shepard into the do gooder feel good idealist path.

Even it out by pushing people out windows and shooting people named Conrad in the foot.

That's besides the point. It would be nice if there were more dialogue options that offer varying rationales for Shepard choosing a decision like with what to do with the genophage data in Mordin's LM.

[Reever]

But do you really think those reasons are being taken note of in the game? it just know if you destroyed the data or if you saved it, that´s all.
Why you did it for is just a part of your own char!

[stysiaq]

BlueDemonX wrote...

But do you really think those reasons are being taken note of in the game? it just know if you destroyed the data or if you saved it, that´s all.
Why you did it for is just a part of your own char!

Yes, but we're not talking here about binary flags in savefiles, but an ability to express your motivation. Just like with saving the council you could say that you want to get them out of humanitys way, or that saving your fleets to take down Sovereign is more important.

in similar fashion you could get 2 more lines after each choice, to let you RP a little bit more.

[Gonder96]

I agree with the OP! I'm a Paragon, most of the time, and it can get a little bland when you already know your most likely going to succeed... Then when you play as a Renegade, you know your going to get your butt kicked in the end.

Bioware needs to try and balance this out a little more, so that perhaps ME3 will be a little more surprising.

[Zakatak757]

My first Shepard (Nessa) has maximum Paragon and only a few slivers of Renegade. I think "doing the right thing" needs consequences too. Morality actions shouldn't necessarily be the best thing to do either.

I think letting Kasumi keep the graybox should have some dire consequences, imo. (just don't have her die for it!)

[Punk4Real]

Gonder96 wrote...

I agree with the OP! I'm a Paragon, most of the time, and it can get a little bland when you already know your most likely going to succeed... Then when you play as a Renegade, you know your going to get your butt kicked in the end.

Bioware needs to try and balance this out a little more, so that perhaps ME3 will be a little more surprising.

Exactly! I played as a paragon too and it just looks too easy to kick some reaper ass at this point.
Some of our 'obviously good' choices backfiring would be that perfect element of surprise in ME3

Zakatak757 wrote...

My first Shepard (Nessa) has maximum Paragon and only a few slivers of Renegade. I think "doing the right thing" needs consequences too. Morality actions shouldn't necessarily be the best thing to do either.

I think letting Kasumi keep the graybox should have some dire consequences, imo. (just don't have her die for it!)

Right again. Good to see people getting the right idea instead of calling this an anti-paragon thread . I forgot all about the graybox lol, what would happen if we kept it? 

Modifié par Punk4Real, 08 septembre 2011 - 07:08 .

[Yakko77]

Zu Long wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Punishing someone who isn't actually guilty of anything is just murder, whatever high rhetoric you try to use to justify it.

Except that she has all the memories of her mother which participated in the Rachni Wars and tried to destroy the galaxy not too long ago, now she's pleading for her life and saying her ancestors were under control. People will say anything at gun point to justify saving their lives and you're going to trust the beast who has the memories of how everybody absolutely love Rachni?

If you let it go, it turns around and kills thousands of people... would that be justified? Would you point and say "That isn't my fault, she told me she was innocent. I'm not to blame for those deaths"?

She doesn't have to TELL me she's innocent. She is. She hasn't done anything yet. Again, you justify you crime by pointing to crimes she MIGHT commit, but hasn't. She MIGHT be telling the truth. All we KNOW, is that she personally hasn't done anything yet.

And yes, it means taking on the responsibility for what she does. But if you can't handle responsibility, you shouldn't have signed up. The REAL hard choices aren't the ones no one will point back at you on.

The Rachni of Old were innocent let alone the Rachni Queen you can choose to free on Noveria. It is made clear and I have nor reason to assume it's a fabrication that the Reapers instigated the Rachni War.

Saving the Reapers will pay off big time in ME3.  Not saving them while not punishing you I hope (as my Renegade Shep killed the Queen) will not provide any benefit either.  No reason to reward an act of genocide just because of what "might" happen.

[Dariuszp]

Punk4Real wrote...

Some good choices should backfire to keep things interesting.

Example ONE: Spare the rachni queen (good choice) or kill the rachni queen (bad choice). 

I feel the game rewards you for good behaviour way too much.
If you spared the queen, there was a good chance that the rachni would not keep their word and terrorize the galaxy once again. But obviously, that need not happen, and they became our allies.

Example TWO: Destroy the collector base (good choice) or keep it (bad choice). 

Again, there was a small chance cerebrus would keep their word and use the collector base for doing good.
But no, they turned out to be liars. Again, the good choices always win - this doesn't happen in real life.

Just a suggestion.
What do you guys think?

All your examples sux. Why ? Because you are naive. Problem is that game designers are even worst. That's why that all paragon/renegade system sux balls. And that's why I hate it despite the fact that I like the game. Let me explain.

EXAMPLE ONE:
You told that releasing Rachni Quen is a good choice. Why ? They wanted to take over the galaxy. You got paragon points. But why ?
What if Rachni just lied to you to get free (if I would sit in a room with acid around me, I would lie like hell to person who hold the trigger). So you should get renegade points...
Wait... if I got renegade points then I did something bad right ? So right now game tells you what you did. You already know what Rachni did so game just give you a huge spoiler.
But what if I'm evil and I wanted to release Rachni SO THEY CAN DESTROY THE WORLD ? Here is the problem. Because I release them but I should get renegade points for that right ?
So you cannot know if what you did is good or not. Game tell you this and there are limited possibilities. That's why this whole system sux balls.

EXAMPLE TWO:
Collector base. What if I will transfer codes to human Alliance or Aliens species ? Cerberus can't do a sh** and we have advantage against the reapers. So why keeping the base is a bad choice and destroying it - good choice ?
Again - devs limit our options to unnatural level and we can't do a sh** about it. System sux again.

EXAMPLE THREE:
I got paragon points because I saved the council in ME 1. Problems is - i give a sh** about council. I saved not the council but the ship. It can be usefull. 3 lives are nothing compare to Ascension. And if I could - I would kill the council later.

SUMMARY
You can always say - that's not a problem. You saved the council. Forget why. You saved it and what was good thing. But paragon/renegade system is describing my character as "good one" while I'm not. And again - this system sux balls.
Also there is matter of people. Some people are idealistic. Some not. Some people like me are generaly good but If i must do something very wrong knowing that it will bring something good - i will do it.
Paragon/Renegade system in ME is worst system ever. And people who design it and people who use it to create a game are LIMITED. I hope that ME 3 is a last place where we see this system.

BIOWARE:
Paragon/Renegade system sux balls.
Paragon/Renegade system is for persuation - again - it sux balls.
Please remove paragon/renegade system in your future games. Old system when you had character that can do what he want + persuation skill was WAY BETTER. And it didn't sux balls.

Modifié par Dariuszp, 09 septembre 2011 - 06:03 .

[Lee337]

@Dariuszp

I'd say you're the one being naive.

The paragon/renagade system is based on the generally accepted view of morals, and those views are mostly derived from relgion and law. Releasing the Rachni queen is the paragon choice because killing is not the morally correct thing to do, especially since she has not done anything wrong. The what if questions don't matter when awarding morality points. Maybe the queen did lie and is planning to destroy the universe, but the morality points are how you act, not how she might act.

You get points for destroying the base because the technology there is used for morally wrong experiments and that nobody should have that power. It's a bit more complex than that but that's the gist. Doesn't mean it's the correct choice, just the one thats morally right.

Saving the council, you already know why it's paragon. Doesn't matter why you did it. You can't have options for every single thought that the millions of people who play have, it has to be limited.

What you're after is an infinate amount of choices that is impossible for the developers too keep up with. It's completely unrealistic.
Commander Shepard is a character that you can mould, but not completely. He wants to save the galaxy, you can choose for him do it by acting as a paragon, or maybe you want him to be ruthless and do whatever it takes But he's not going to try and destroy the galaxy by unleashing the rachni because he's evil, just as he didn't join up with Saren and let the reapers destroy the galaxy.
They can't just let you go completely wild because there's no way to code every thought and action someone might take and then to use all those options to impact future events. Maybe I'd like to give up fighting the reapers and instead go back to earth and chase ice cream trucks alongside a pet dog until the world ends. It's not going to happen.

The morality system could use improving however. Using it for persuation is a bad idea, I'd like to be able to make whatever choice I felt appropriate rather than the game deciding that I have to use the paragon option because I have chosen that option more often. I prefered the original set up in ME for that, but they wanted to take the complex customising out for ME2.
Maybe they should have both paragon and renagade options appear when a morailty choice appears and instead of both choices having seperate requirements, have them both unlock by the total morality points of both sides, enabling you to chose which side to take but still require you to gain the experiance needed for the speech.

[Dariuszp]

Lee337 wrote...

@Dariuszp

I'd say you're the one being naive.

The paragon/renagade system is based on the generally accepted view of morals, and those views are mostly derived from relgion and law. Releasing the Rachni queen is the paragon choice because killing is not the morally correct thing to do, especially since she has not done anything wrong. The what if questions don't matter when awarding morality points. Maybe the queen did lie and is planning to destroy the universe, but the morality points are how you act, not how she might act.

You get points for destroying the base because the technology there is used for morally wrong experiments and that nobody should have that power. It's a bit more complex than that but that's the gist. Doesn't mean it's the correct choice, just the one thats morally right.

Saving the council, you already know why it's paragon. Doesn't matter why you did it. You can't have options for every single thought that the millions of people who play have, it has to be limited.

What you're after is an infinate amount of choices that is impossible for the developers too keep up with. It's completely unrealistic.
Commander Shepard is a character that you can mould, but not completely. He wants to save the galaxy, you can choose for him do it by acting as a paragon, or maybe you want him to be ruthless and do whatever it takes But he's not going to try and destroy the galaxy by unleashing the rachni because he's evil, just as he didn't join up with Saren and let the reapers destroy the galaxy.
They can't just let you go completely wild because there's no way to code every thought and action someone might take and then to use all those options to impact future events. Maybe I'd like to give up fighting the reapers and instead go back to earth and chase ice cream trucks alongside a pet dog until the world ends. It's not going to happen.

The morality system could use improving however. Using it for persuation is a bad idea, I'd like to be able to make whatever choice I felt appropriate rather than the game deciding that I have to use the paragon option because I have chosen that option more often. I prefered the original set up in ME for that, but they wanted to take the complex customising out for ME2.
Maybe they should have both paragon and renagade options appear when a morailty choice appears and instead of both choices having seperate requirements, have them both unlock by the total morality points of both sides, enabling you to chose which side to take but still require you to gain the experiance needed for the speech.

I want to enter restricted citadel section. My character is "moral good" because he saved the council, release Rachni etc. Guard know my "moral good" stuff and he let me in because HE SEE ME as good person.

Same situation. I want to enter restricted citadel section. Others see my character as "moral good" because he saved the council and release Rachni. BUT I saved the council to get that big ship. You know - big ship, big guns = LOOT OF FUN. I release Rachni to have MINIONS. I give a sh** about people. I want minions. Bugs are not loyal to alliance or aliens. Bugs are LOYAL TO ME! AND ONLY ME!.
So I'm here, evil dude who want to enter restricted section. There is paragon option that can force guard to let me in ("I'm f**** spectre commander kid, let me in") but it's blocked. MY CHARACTER CAN'T SAY IT BECAUSE HE IS GOOD ?

WTF ? :| This kind of things happen all the time in ME. I don't see my Schepard as good. He is badass evil dude who can't be evil because game not allow him to be evil... WHAT ? Game play my character or I'm playing it ? So your moral good/moral bad is naive and stupid. It would be good if this would affect OTHERS. But this system affect ME.

So it's like you are saying. It's bad. I know that I cant go play my dog in the middle of reaper invasion. But don't TELL ME that my character is doing something good or evil and then DON'T BLOCK stuff that I can do based on WHAT GAME DEVELOPER DECIDE.
Because right now this is it. Game designer DECIDED what I can/can't do based on HIS MORALITY. Not mine. I don't need to "go wild" but DON'T BLOCK stuff that I can say or can't.



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For me, this system should work like this. My character have PERSUASION skill. If I develop this, I can use paragon/renegade options AS I LIKE. But i STILL GET PARAGON/RENEGADE options for my actions. But they are not for me but NPC. This should decide HOW other see ME.

This system would be perfect. I will create new topic for that. Hope someone will like it.

[Lee337]

What do you mean by the restricted area of the citadel? The presidum walkways?

[Han Shot First]

I feel the game rewards you for good behaviour way too much.
If you spared the queen, there was a good chance that the rachni would not keep their word and terrorize the galaxy once again. But obviously, that need not happen, and they became our allies.

It was strongly hinted at in that scene that the Rachni Wars were caused by Reaper indoctrination. So the decision with the Rachni might not be the best example of a paragon decision that should backfire. The Rachni aren't the aggressive, expansionist species they were portrayed as. They were Sovereign's first unfortunate victims, and his Plan A for gaining access to the Citadel.

I do agree though that some Paragon decisions should backfire, as should some Renegade decisions.

[Dariuszp]

Lee337 wrote...

What do you mean by the restricted area of the citadel? The presidum walkways?

It was example Nothing more.