549 réponses à ce sujet

[sorentoft]

Montezuma IV wrote...

The FINAL POINT: You act like an a**hole. You get treated like an a**hole.

This pretty much.

/popcorn

[HogarthHughes 3]

sorentoft wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

The FINAL POINT: You act like an a**hole. You get treated like an a**hole.

This pretty much.

/popcorn

Irrelevant, decisions such as killing the Rachni Queen or preserving the Collector Base have nothing to do with being a jerk.  (Unlike say punching Al-Jilani in the face)

@Prothy the Prothean - I could say that most of the "paragon" alternatives to those are just the result of blind idealism with some stupidity thrown in for good measure.  Some fine potential for NOU debate if I ever saw any.

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 05 septembre 2011 - 11:02 .

[Homebound]

1 paragon choice that should never backfire? hugging tali!

[KotorEffect3]

Paragons look better we don't have nasty scars and glow in the dark eyes

[Contalion]

I consider my shep a paragon. That being said, I don't ALWAYS choose the paragon option. My ME1 shep had a full paragon bar and a 3/4 full renegade bar by the end of the game, and my ME2 shep had a full paragon bar and about a 1/2 full renegade bar. This is simply because some people aren't civil or trustworthy enough to be diplomatic with. Take Ethan Jeong for example. Shep's paragon persuade option is utterly ridiculous. Couple that with the fact that his demeanor at the time is very erratic/irrational, and trying to politely talk to him just didn't seem fitting to me. So I used the renegade option. Personally, I don't think that EITHER path is purely correct. Trying to be PURELY paragon or renegade is just silly to me....seeing as I don't think I've ever met anyone who acted PURELY paragon or renegade. Even the nicest people tend to be at least slightly paragade.

[HogarthHughes 3]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Paragons look better we don't have nasty scars and glow in the dark eyes

Ah but Chakwas has our back, for only 50,000 Platinum!  They went a bit over the top with the renegade face-morphing stuff IMO, would have been much cooler if part of Shepards new terminator face got exposed through injury rather than "negative thoughts."

[KotorEffect3]

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Paragons look better we don't have nasty scars and glow in the dark eyes

Ah but Chakwas has our back, for only 50,000 Platinum!  They went a bit over the top with the renegade face-morphing stuff IMO, would have been much cooler if part of Shepards new terminator face got exposed through injury rather than "negative thoughts."

I wonder if those Cerberus implants are going to come back to haunt us in ME 3.

[HogarthHughes 3]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I wonder if those Cerberus implants are going to come back to haunt us in ME 3.

Shepard managed to get hacked in Overlord, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Reapers do something to mess with Shepards head (course they could do that without Shepard being a cyborg).  I'm still hoping that if there is a deus ex machina it will involve Shepard becoming a Reaper avatar of sorts that somehow manages to reverse control on them (thus giving us control to one or more Reapers or something like that).

[HogarthHughes 3]

Prothy the Prothean wrote...

Blind idealism? Stupidity?

Blind idealism is making the baseless assumption that people will do everything in accordance with your benevolent views or beliefs if you just ask them, and opening up your back to them in the belief that it is unthinkable that anyone would betray you. "Paragons" are not about blind idealism.

Real idealism is giving people the chance to prove themselves worthy of your trust and of the opportunity to work to make their own situation and that of everyone else, better. If they betray that opportunity, THEN you may kill them all.

"Renegades" never go this far, because they are irrationally afraid and paranoid.

To put it in a differen context, a "Paragon" nurtures his crops regardles knowing some of them might spoil and cause trouble later on, while a "Renegade" simply burns them all down because of fear for the wild off-chance that they might all become spoiled.

Of course of course!  If the Rachni Queen was lying or better yet gets indoctrinated regardless, we can just kill her right?  We would just have to find her, and assuming we can even do that, kill her!  Its not as though such a turn of events would needlessly cost lives that could have easily been saved had she been dealt with on Noveria.

If these "crops" of yours were capable of growing into a force powerful enough to threaten the entire galaxy, well then I guess I'm just being "irrationally afraid and paranoid" when I don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt given the actions of all their kind who came before.

[HogarthHughes 3]

Prothy the Prothean wrote...

Bad agricultural seasons cause damaging food shortages and great economic damage, and does happen. That does not prevent farmers from risking it. My metaphor, no matter how hard you argue, is not lost.

Wouldn't burning down the crops cause an even worse agricultural season using this metaphor?  Or do "renegades" only burn down a few to spare the majority from possible infection(or whatever possible problems are at risk of being caused)?

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 05 septembre 2011 - 11:52 .

[MarauderESP]

oh dear.....paragon isn´t good, or renegade is not bad...... its a way of doing things

[HogarthHughes 3]

MarauderESP wrote...

oh dear.....paragon isn´t good, or renegade is not bad...... its a way of doing things

Nuh uh!  I'm right, you're wrong and you're stupid and should feel bad for daring to think otherwise.
/sarcasm

[_FLANDERS]

Other mistake is when tou have jack and miranda fighting it out if you use the good guy way you lose so your choice is the bad guy way always.

[HogarthHughes 3]

FLANDERS wrote...

Other mistake is when tou have jack and miranda fighting it out if you use the good guy way you lose so your choice is the bad guy way always.

The paragon persuasion is harder to do for Jack/Miranda, yeah.  However the same is true for the renegade persuasion with Legion/Tali.  Thats the gist of what you said right?  No offence but it is kind of hard to tell.

[HogarthHughes 3]

Prothy the Prothean wrote...

Now you understand.

Ha, maybe I wasn't completely coherent.  I meant burning down the crops would cause an even worse agricultural season than could potentially be caused by allowing the few "troubled" ones to go on.  Perhaps you knew that though, in which case your metaphor is completely skewed for your purposes.

[Wulfram]

Picking Renegade should end up with good results for the Renegade, picking Paragon should end up with good results for the Paragon.

For example - Dominant but weakened humanity secured with ethically questionable tech, or heroic but weakened humanity secured by the good will of their allies.

edit: of course the problem is that not all renegades and paragons want the same thing.

Modifié par Wulfram, 05 septembre 2011 - 12:16 .

[HogarthHughes 3]

Wulfram wrote...

Picking Renegade should end up with good results for the Renegade, picking Paragon should end up with good results for the Paragon.

For example - Dominant but weakened humanity secured with ethically questionable tech, or heroic but weakened humanity secured by the good will of their allies.

edit: of course the problem is that not all renegades and paragons want the same thing.

Generally I'm hoping for this.  Thus far we can't even tell the full ramifications of any of our "big" decisions yet.  All we have to go on are a few cameo appearances and foreshadowing.

[NICKjnp]

This really makes me laugh sometimes. The concept that you want everyone to love your renegade. You performed a military coup. Your Shepard is a jerk and only cares about humans. You let a known terrorist group have access to a technology that can control their minds.

You reap the consequences of your actions. As for a punishment....they already say you won't be punished but will simply have a different outcome that is equally cool. If you ask me the renegades are getting off too easy.

[GodWood]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Uh, yeah. Anyone can see that backfiring. Just because the choice is there doesn't mean you have to take it. Because then it's not that much of a choice, isn't it?

Also, killing the Council isn't a Renegade choice. Putting Udina on the seat is.

Losing your Spectre status for good is completely your own fault too.

Just to clarify, I like all those consequences.

Anyways, excellent. We're in agreement.
Renegade choices have backfired so now it's time for some paragon decisions to backfire too.

Good to see your on our side Mass.