53 réponses à ce sujet

[TanyaT]

It's a gripe


During Dragon Age games I have managed to my head around hearing Brits use Americanisations
eg we say named my boat aftermy gran, US say named for my gran.

OK will live with that, language develops differently and what we said 2 centuries ago is said in the States etc. so won’t moan about it (though it sticks with me while I should be paying attention to the plot)


However, I will not live with the pronunciation of "route" not as root but as rout, it makes me hopping mad when I hear Brits being made to use it.

Don't know where it came from, all the US TV and films pronounced route properly until recently (well recently in my lifetime). Route is French it sound like root, rout means beat the hell out of something eg another football team, not getting
from A to B

when and why did it become received US pronunciation?

Fortunately, apart form Captain Picard, who as a supposed Frenchman would know how to say it but says “rout”, it’s not something I come across often.

So here I am on my umpteenth run through of Origins, I seem to have taken a different line to one taken before, when Alistair thanks me for taking a different “rout” AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

It’s annoyed me all night, haunted my dreams, and 18 hours later is still making me hopping mad. There is no way Alistair would use that pronunciation and I want to smack whoever made Steve Valentine use it.

 

Good that’s off my chest; I can get back to normality and watch the Cornish mist bucket down.

 

Thank you for listening!

Modifié par TanyaT, 04 septembre 2011 - 02:22 .

[mousestalker]

It's Canadian scripting, just so you know. The writers are largely from western Canada.

[TanyaT]

mousestalker wrote...

It's Canadian scripting, just so you know. The writers are largely from western Canada.

my apologies, I did know that ... but these are still Americanisations

[mesmerizedish]

No one in America says "named the boat for my gran."

Americans always use "after." Perhaps that's a Canadianism?

[ipgd]

TanyaT wrote...

During Dragon Age games I have managed to my head around hearing Brits use Americanisations
eg we say named my boat aftermy gran, US say named for my gran.

I'm never heard that in my life.


For the record, I highly doubt the casting directors are sitting there telling the British voice actors to pronounce the word 'route' differently. It's more likely that their own native dialect includes, shock of all shocks, that particular pronunciation of route. As you might guess, there are many different "British accents" and not all of them are proper, posh BBC newscaster affectations.

You should also probably know that being irritatingly elitist about language conventions, as if one dialect or accent's standards are somehow superior to all others within the context of an organically evolved language, kind of makes you look like an ass and really not at all as smart as you seem to think it does. Received Pronunciation is not the Master Race that all others must cower before in their worthlessness.

Modifié par ipgd, 04 septembre 2011 - 02:57 .

[mousestalker]

I thought it was "We done named the bateau after Big Mama".

Oh well.

[TanyaT]

ipgd wrote...

TanyaT wrote...

During Dragon Age games I have managed to my head around hearing Brits use Americanisations
eg we say named my boat aftermy gran, US say named for my gran.

I'm never heard that in my life.


For the record, I highly doubt the casting directors are sitting there telling the British voice actors to pronounce the word 'route' differently. It's more likely that their own native dialect includes, shock of all shocks, that particular pronunciation of route. As you might guess, there are many different "British accents" and not all of them are proper, posh BBC newscaster affectations.

You should also probably know that being irritatingly elitist about language conventions, as if one dialect or accent's standards are somehow superior to the all others within the context of an organically evolved language, kind of makes you look like an ass and really not at all as smart as you seem to think it does. Received Pronunciation is not the Master Race that all others must cower before in their worthlessness.

Ooh confrontation on a Sunday afternoon!

I am not an up and at 'em British is best type, I am extremely anti that tosh and rarely cheer the Union flag.
But I am British and am aware our newscasters have many accents, some aren't even English (thank the maker), I'm a bit Scottish, Welsh, Irish, bit of Yorkshire (that's embarrassing bit), Devon, Evesham, a lot Surrey, and a bit Danish & French.. I support Scotland, am for Indepencence within Europe.
So I do know how we pronounce route, and I also know how it is pronounced by my older North American (yes including Canadian) friends and how the younger ones say rout.

And why shouldn’t it annoy me? 

[ipgd]

TanyaT wrote...

Ooh confrontation on a Sunday afternoon!

I am not an up and at 'em British is best type, I am extremely anti that tosh and rarely cheer the Union flag.
But I am British and am aware our newscasters have many accents, some aren't even English (thank the maker), I'm a bit Scottish, Welsh, Irish, bit of Yorkshire (that's embarrassing bit), Devon, Evesham, a lot Surrey, and a bit Danish & French.. I support Scotland, am for Indepencence within Europe.
So I do know how we pronounce route, and I also know how it is pronounced by my older North American (yes including Canadian) friends and how the younger ones say rout.

And why shouldn’t it annoy me? 

What do you really think is more likely, that the voice directors are actually specifically pulling all of the actors aside and instructing them to pronounce that one word differently, or that they just pronounce it that way normally? I mean, honestly.

[TanyaT]

ipgd wrote...

TanyaT wrote...

Ooh confrontation on a Sunday afternoon!

I am not an up and at 'em British is best type, I am extremely anti that tosh and rarely cheer the Union flag.
But I am British and am aware our newscasters have many accents, some aren't even English (thank the maker), I'm a bit Scottish, Welsh, Irish, bit of Yorkshire (that's embarrassing bit), Devon, Evesham, a lot Surrey, and a bit Danish & French.. I support Scotland, am for Indepencence within Europe.
So I do know how we pronounce route, and I also know how it is pronounced by my older North American (yes including Canadian) friends and how the younger ones say rout.

And why shouldn’t it annoy me? 

What do you really think is more likely, that the voice directors are actually specifically pulling all of the actors aside and instructing them to pronounce that one word differently, or that they just pronounce it that way normally? I mean, honestly.

honestly?
I think those that work over there have
been coached that way for US consumption, I know that Patrick Stewart
says route normally but didn't in TNG.

I do think it's odd the way it's changed

[TanyaT]

oops twitchy fingers

Modifié par TanyaT, 05 septembre 2011 - 08:26 .

[UpiH]

Sir Patrick Hewes Stewart is an old Shakespeare actor. Like Sir Ian Murray McKellen, he's in his own league.

How do they pronounce "tight upper lip" thereabouts?

Modifié par UpiH, 04 septembre 2011 - 03:41 .

[DreGregoire]

Well I mean because pronouncing something how it is spell is just outrageous. pronounce... route. Generally no word is pronounced the same in all regions of any one country. There were many interesting ways that certain words in Dragon Age were said. I remember the same word being pronounced differently within the Dragon Age Universe. I'm sure the voice actors tried saying things in different ways until they decided what sounded best in the situation.

And I'm an American and I pronounce it root and I say after not for, but whatever. Call it what you want or blame it on Americanization. *shrugs*

Modifié par DreGregoire, 04 septembre 2011 - 04:44 .

[Creature 1]

TanyaT wrote...
So I do know how we pronounce route, and I also know how it is pronounced by my older North American (yes including Canadian) friends and how the younger ones say rout.

People in some regions say it's "root", some in others say it's "rout".  I say it's "rout", unless we're talking about Route 66 of course.  

So in Ferelden they tend to have British-like accents but pronounce "route" "rout".  BFD.  

[UpiH]

DreGregoire wrote...

Well I mean because pronouncing something how it is spell is just outrageous. pronounce... route. Generally no word is pronounced the same in all regions of any one country. There were many interesting ways that certain words in Dragon Age were said. I believe even the same word was pronounced differently within the Dragon Age Universe. I'm sure the voice actors tried saying things in different ways until they decided what sounded best in the situation.

I guess, there is a ton of reasons as to why they are doing those accents. The Brits still have their social stratification, maybe they've tried to imbed even those aspects. Difficult to tell, especially for me, I'm just a Finnish country boy, a lout at that, my pronounciation is something between horrible and  terrible. I've learnt "route" as they sing in Route 66, for example. Probably I can tell from the context when they are meaning something else than a way.

Also, sometimes logopaedia is favoured in the curricula of the actor schools, sometimes not that much.

[mousestalker]

Pronunciation aid

[Anarya]

1. Steve Valentine lives in LA and has for years so it isn't inconceivable that he may have picked up different pronunciations for things.

2. Many Americans use "rout" and "root" interchangably

3. "Properly"? Isn't that a matter of perspective?

[Gotholhorakh]

Anarya wrote...
3. "Properly"? Isn't that a matter of perspective?

Probably - if you're British then hearing something pronounced in any British accent the way NO British person pronounces it has got to rankle.

Kind of like if an American character on TV corrected someone's spelling of "colour" to include the u.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 04 septembre 2011 - 08:18 .

[billy the squid]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Anarya wrote...
3. "Properly"? Isn't that a matter of perspective?

Probably - if you're British then hearing something pronounced in any British accent the way NO British person pronounces it has got to rankle.

Kind of like if an American character on TV corrected someone's spelling of "colour" to include the u.

Somewhat, but I don't consider it an issue.

Considering that many of our country's youth speaks some form of slang dialect, which I am unable to decipher or lack any sort of enunciation, Americans pronouncing words strangely does not irk me really.

[Ferretinabun]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Anarya wrote...
3. "Properly"? Isn't that a matter of perspective?

Probably - if you're British then hearing something pronounced in any British accent the way NO British person pronounces it has got to rankle.

Kind of like if an American character on TV corrected someone's spelling of "colour" to include the u.

Exactly it. It's not that any particular pronunciation/accent/way of speaking is objectively BETTER than any other, it's just that when it's established a character speaks in a certain way (ie, a Southern English accent), then colloquialisms which are alien will sound extremely out of place and make perfectly sane, normal people turn green and smash things!

I'm sooo with you, TanyaT. My particular bugbears include using 'mad' to mean 'angry' rather than just 'insane', and 'smart' to mean 'clever' rather than just 'fashionably/neatly dressed'. Makes me weep. Not that I spotted them in Dragon Age. In fact, I think Dragon Age was generally very good for this. The only ones I spotted were in DA2 where both Aveline and Bethany both refer to a bum as an 'ass', rather than an 'arse'.

Modifié par Ferretinabun, 05 septembre 2011 - 02:09 .

[Creature 1]

Things just haven't been the same since they stopped pronouncing the K in "knight".

[TanyaT]

UpiH wrote...

Sir Patrick Hewes Stewart is an old Shakespeare actor. Like Sir Ian Murray McKellen, he's in his own league.

How do they pronounce "tight upper lip" thereabouts?

we pronounce it "stiff upper lip"

Patrick Stewart's from Yorkshire and you can hear his accent, it's quite gentle though. Not all Shakespearean actors speak luvvie English, however it appears across the pond

Ferretinabun wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Anarya wrote...
3. "Properly"? Isn't that a matter of perspective?

Probably - if you're British then hearing something pronounced in any British accent the way NO British person pronounces it has got to rankle.

Kind of like if an American character on TV corrected someone's spelling of "colour" to include the u.

Exactly it. It's not that any particular pronunciation/accent/way of speaking is objectively BETTER than any other, it's just that when it's established a character speaks in a certain way (ie, a Southern English accent), then colloquialisms which are alien will sound extremely out of place and make perfectly sane, normal people turn green and smash things!

I'm sooo with you, TanyaT. My particular bugbears include using 'mad' to mean 'angry' rather than just 'insane', and 'smart' to mean 'clever' rather than just 'fashionably/neatly dressed'. Makes me weep. Not that I spotted them in Dragon Age. In fact, I think Dragon Age was generally very good for this. The only ones I spotted were in DA2 where both Aveline and Bethany both refer to a bum as an 'ass', rather than an 'arse'.

oh yes I'd forgotten that, it's arse as in we routed the Arse 8-2 (as a US friend of mine put it)

ass is a donkey, now you smack your donkey if you want, I'll stick to arse spanking ;-)

I don't mind natural word changing, my M-I-L still is furious that "gay" has been "hijacked" (Daily Mail reader) and that makes me laugh, there's always been a natural alteration in how we use words. Altering the pronouncuiation to something that means something different changes the meaning of the sentence

thanks to the few of you on my side!



I want my Google toolbar back, I need the spell checker!

Modifié par TanyaT, 05 septembre 2011 - 08:29 .

[Gotholhorakh]

Ferretinabun wrote...
I'm sooo with you, TanyaT. My particular
bugbears include using 'mad' to mean 'angry' rather than just 'insane',
and 'smart' to mean 'clever' rather than just 'fashionably/neatly
dressed'. Makes me weep. Not that I spotted them in Dragon Age. In fact,
I think Dragon Age was generally very good for this. The only ones I
spotted were in DA2 where both Aveline and Bethany both refer to a bum
as an 'ass', rather than an 'arse'.

Don't forget "pants" as trousers, and the one that annoys me the most, oh God, the subtle confusion between "have" and "got".

"Have you got a reason for that"? "No, I don't."

This opens a yawning chasm of homicidal rage in me the depths of which I dursn't let on. It's more irritating because everyone lets it fly like it isn't stupid and wrong and no, no, no, NO.

Don't even get me started on "hence why I did that". I could cheerfully feed people into a tree shredder who use "hence why", 9-5:30, 6 days a week.

Normally I just smile and nod and ignore it though, furious homicidal black rage is one thing, but there's no need to be impolite.

Creature 1 wrote...

Things just haven't been the same since they stopped pronouncing the K in "knight".

- or since they stopped pronouncing the "ght" in such words as "xt"


I think "smart" is irrevocably working its way into English (which I'm not going to call English English or British English to differentiate from overseas dialects, that would be silly redundancy, so suck it up, princess), as are horrible "regulariZed" versions of past tense verbs like "spelled" or "learned", perhaps because different word endings are so mind-numbingly complex. I look forward (with no enthusiasm) to slept and went being replaced with "sleeped" and "wended" or "goed". At least they wouldn't overlap alternate meanings like "learned" does.

Oh well, English is and has been during very recent history (say the last 950 years or so) a bubble and squeak of whatever words happen to be in common usage at the time, in any language it contacts. It's the poster child for loan words and common usage so what can we do? If you ask me, it's all foreign anyway - the closest thing to a true "British" language is Cymraeg, and even that's full of detritus from filthy roman and saxon immigrants - the swine.

I digress massively though. Just meant to say, I share these moments of irritation TanyaT, I know just what you mean.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 05 septembre 2011 - 04:37 .

[Ferretinabun]

TanyaT wrote...
oh yes I'd forgotten that, it's arse as in we routed the Arse 8-2 (as a US friend of mine put it)

Ha ha. My mother'd skin you alive just for mentioning that!
Too soon, TanyaT, too soon. The wounds are fresh...

Modifié par Ferretinabun, 05 septembre 2011 - 03:31 .

[TanyaT]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

I digress massively though. Just meant to say, I share these moments of irritation TanyaT, I know just what you mean.

cheers I am starting to feel less paranoid now, the first responses were not the friendliest ...

maybe I should have called the thread: a rant about language

[TanyaT]

Ferretinabun wrote...

TanyaT wrote...
oh yes I'd forgotten that, it's arse as in we routed the Arse 8-2 (as a US friend of mine put it)

Ha ha. My mother'd skin you alive just for mentioning that!
Too soon, TanyaT, too soon. The wounds are fresh...

ooh sorry! my friends enjoyed it it muchly (I should have but felt sorry for Wenger)

nice to meet someone on here who knows what that meant