53 réponses à ce sujet

[Last Darkness]

You should think how ridiculous you native english speakers make a simple language as complicated as you do.

Its commonly belived that English is one of the hardest languages in the world to learn because you make it so needlessly complicated.

Its quite silly, then of course you cant even agree about the language and seperate dialects among yourselves.

[Gotholhorakh]

TanyaT wrote...

Ferretinabun wrote...

TanyaT wrote...
oh yes I'd forgotten that, it's arse as in we routed the Arse 8-2 (as a US friend of mine put it)

Ha ha. My mother'd skin you alive just for mentioning that!
Too soon, TanyaT, too soon. The wounds are fresh...

ooh sorry! my friends enjoyed it it muchly (I should have but felt sorry for Wenger)

nice to meet someone on here who knows what that meant

I knew what it meant too, and thoroughly enjoy every time it is mentioned, although it would have been better if it was Spurs rather than Man U, to be honest. 

Last Darkness wrote...

You should think how ridiculous you native english speakers make a simple language as complicated as you do.

Its commonly belived that English is one of the hardest languages in the world to learn because you make it so needlessly complicated.

Its quite silly, then of course you cant even agree about the language and seperate dialects among yourselves.

Well, one person's needlessly complicated means of buying bus tickets and understanding meetings in a second language, is another person's beautiful and colourful mother tongue.

Of the languages I've known, I think English is one of the most beautiful, interesting and versatile.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 05 septembre 2011 - 06:22 .

[TanyaT]

Gotholhorakh wrote...
Of the languages I've known, I think English is one of the most beautiful, interesting and versatile.

soemtimes it is, sometime's it isn't
My other languages are French and a touch of Scots (that's poetic but damn difficult) ... I love French but it can mean using 10 words when three will do

[Patchwork]

Creature 1 wrote...



I think "smart" is irrevocably working its way into English (which I'm not going to call English English or British English to differentiate from overseas dialects, that would be silly redundancy, so suck it up, princess), as are horrible "regulariZed" versions of past tense verbs like "spelled" or "learned", perhaps because different word endings are so mind-numbingly complex. I look forward (with no enthusiasm) to slept and went being replaced with "sleeped" and "wended" or "goed". At least they wouldn't overlap alternate meanings like "learned" does.

I dread this day, "sleeped" and "learned" feel so wrong and I find the increasing popularity of "gotten" horrifying.

I never noticed route/root in DA but the frequent use of "write me/him/her" instead of "write to" I notice every time.

Modifié par Ser Bard, 06 septembre 2011 - 11:45 .

[Wozearly]

Last Darkness wrote...

You should think how ridiculous you native english speakers make a simple language as complicated as you do.

Its commonly belived that English is one of the hardest languages in the world to learn because you make it so needlessly complicated.

Its quite silly, then of course you cant even agree about the language and seperate dialects among yourselves.

Actually, 'basic' English is one of the easier languages to get by in because its gender neutral and, for the most part, has a lot fewer verbs that transform in unexpected ways. What makes it bleeding difficult to get good at is that there are a ton of nouns that give very subtle, but different meanings and it uses letter combinations to make completely different sounds in different words - the 'ough' in through, though, thorough, bough and cough is probably the most striking example.

Creature 1 wrote...

People
in some regions say it's "root", some in others say it's "rout".  I say
it's "rout", unless we're talking about Route 66 of course.  

But...but...doesn't that illustrate the point? "Root" is the original pronunciation of the word and the British English verison - and that's not just talking technically correct, I've never, ever heard it pronounced "rout" anywhere in the UK. 

At some point along the line some versions of English have transformed into "rout". The reason isn't clear, but it jars like crazy to Brits when you have a British VA suddenly ditch their own natural pronunciation for no apparent reason.

Modifié par Wozearly, 06 septembre 2011 - 12:37 .

[TanyaT]

Ser Bard wrote...

 I find the increasing popularity of "gotten" horrifying.

apparently gotten is Shakespearean era English, the Americans kept it ...

Wozearly wrote...

But...but...doesn't that illustrate the point? "Root" is the original pronunciation of the word and the British English version - and that's not just talking technically correct, I've never, ever heard it pronounced "rout" anywhere in the UK.

At some point along the line some versions of English have transformed into "rout". The reason isn't clear, but it jars like crazy to Brits when you have a British VA suddenly ditch their own natural pronunciation for no apparent reason.

thankfully to my US friends too - I checked them all out yesterday, they all think rout for route is crazy and won't let their kids use it

[ylaenna]

Saying "root" for the word "route" bugs me as well, and it's unfortunate but this misuse is being popularized even more by American football players talking about how they run their "routs."

To nitpick further...
Speaking of football, it also bugs me when, after a call is challenged, the official comes out on the field and says, "After reviewing the play, the ruling on the field stands" or some other variation of that sentence. My fellow nitpickers will understand why.

[TanyaT]

ylaenna wrote...

American football players talking about how they run their "routs."

shudder, it just doesn't make sense does it!

ylaenna wrote...

to nitpick further...
Speaking of football, it also bugs me when, after a call is challenged, the official comes out on the field and says, "After reviewing the play, the ruling on the field stands" or some other variation of that sentence. My fellow nitpickers will understand why.

as a European I would dispute that you are talking about football

(we football fans don't like the word soccer, but we can undestand why you use it!)

[Last Darkness]

Your slang often causes confusion, words meaning the opposite or differant things then their definitions always drives me crazy.

[TanyaT]

Last night I was playing Origins and, I think it was the landlord of the Spoilt Princess, or it may have been someone in Denerim - but they said kick up the arse not ass
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]
I got very excited by that

[TanyaT]

and Alistair says arse too  - wants me to kick Morrigan's .. it will be a pleasure!

so if he says arse not ass, why rout not route? guess the only way to find out is ask him ....

[The Xand]

I pronounce rout and route as "root" since that's the proper way of saying them. "Rout" comes from the Anglo-Norman word "rute".

[Chuvvy]

It's written by Canadians. It makes sense that it would have American dialect, Canada is basically a cold version of the states with universal healthcare.

[Arthur Cousland]

Hmm...I'm sure I've said root and rout interchangably myself. I guess I say whatever happens to roll off my tongue at the time.

It's probably more...
Let's drive on root 66.
What rout should we take to get from here to there?

Seriously, is this something to lose sleep over?

Also, arse is simply a slang version of ass.  I've never used arse, myself or heard anyone say it out loud.  Usually I might read arse somewhere when someone just doesn't want to write ass, either trying to be funny or thinking ass is a bad word.

Oddly enough, I hear arse more often in Bioware games than anywhere else.  Maybe it's more of a Canadian thing?

Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 11 septembre 2011 - 04:51 .

[TanyaT]

Arthur Cousland wrote...

Hmm...I'm sure I've said root and rout interchangably myself. I guess I say whatever happens to roll off my tongue at the time.

It's probably more...
Let's drive on root 66.
What rout should we take to get from here to there?

Seriously, is this something to lose sleep over?

Also, arse is simply a slang version of ass.  I've never used arse, myself or heard anyone say it out loud.  Usually I might read arse somewhere when someone just doesn't want to write ass, either trying to be funny or thinking ass is a bad word.

Oddly enough, I hear arse more often in Bioware games than anywhere else.  Maybe it's more of a Canadian thing?

ass is what the US have always used because they are delicate in their swearing (gee instead of Jesus!) and don't like saying arse ie arse is what ass really means, it certainly does not mean donkey - well not unless your are really weird! I haven't sat on an ass since I was a little girl on the beach, but I am sitting on my arse right now

it's something irritating when the pronunciation has changed to something that has another meaning. Of course Route 66 is pronounced root, why has the normal use of route become a rout (as in Rooney raring to make it year to remember following Bolton rout)

it's Brits pronouncing things non Brit that really grates. it's not just a quick roll of the eyes thinking "I wish those damn yankees could pronounce word properly", it's AAAAAARRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the US is taking us over bit by bit, soon we won't have any individualism left!

and relax .....I am going to get off my arse and do something useful on this dreich Monday morning

Modifié par TanyaT, 12 septembre 2011 - 09:23 .

[Arthur Cousland]

Perhaps you should try decaf?

Yes, those damn Americans are going to take over the world by mispronouncing words.  Run for your lives!!!

Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 12 septembre 2011 - 05:50 .

[Chuvvy]

TanyaT wrote...

Arthur Cousland wrote...

Hmm...I'm sure I've said root and rout interchangably myself. I guess I say whatever happens to roll off my tongue at the time.

It's probably more...
Let's drive on root 66.
What rout should we take to get from here to there?

Seriously, is this something to lose sleep over?

Also, arse is simply a slang version of ass.  I've never used arse, myself or heard anyone say it out loud.  Usually I might read arse somewhere when someone just doesn't want to write ass, either trying to be funny or thinking ass is a bad word.

Oddly enough, I hear arse more often in Bioware games than anywhere else.  Maybe it's more of a Canadian thing?

ass is what the US have always used because they are delicate in their swearing (gee instead of Jesus!) and don't like saying arse ie arse is what ass really means, it certainly does not mean donkey - well not unless your are really weird! I haven't sat on an ass since I was a little girl on the beach, but I am sitting on my arse right now

it's something irritating when the pronunciation has changed to something that has another meaning. Of course Route 66 is pronounced root, why has the normal use of route become a rout (as in Rooney raring to make it year to remember following Bolton rout)

it's Brits pronouncing things non Brit that really grates. it's not just a quick roll of the eyes thinking "I wish those damn yankees could pronounce word properly", it's AAAAAARRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the US is taking us over bit by bit, soon we won't have any individualism left!

and relax .....I am going to get off my arse and do something useful on this dreich Monday morning

Christ, what's up your ass?

[Phthartic]

" ...I seem to have taken a different line to one taken before..."

Don't you mean different FROM the one taken before?

JUST KIDDING! I'm actually American but would prefer as much Anglicising of the writing and accents as possible. I just LOVED when Alistair talked about running around in his "small clothes..."

The one I find a bit jarring occasionally is Leliana. She sounds like a Brit that does a good French accent and overall it sounds pretty hot (sorry... "attractive?", "sexy?") but sometimes the blending of the two accents sounds a bit awkward and unnatural. But maybe it's not British/French, maybe from all the talk about Canada, it's British Columbian/French Canadian? No idea. But count me on your side. I'm a big Anglophile.

I also hate when sloppy use of language becomes popular, then accepted, then standard, then correct. Here in California we have a lot of Spanish words in common English usage, many of which had become Americanized long before my time, so "SanFrunsisko" and "Loss Anjulus" sound perfectly normal and "Sahn Frahnseesko" and "Lohs Onhaylays" would sound like you were pandering to minorities. I live in dread of the day when you might order a "kaysuhdiluh" instead of a "kaysuhdeeya" however.

By the way, I choose psuedo-randomly between "root" and "rout" as well in my own pronunciation.
If I was to go for a drive, I would get my kicks on "root 66", but I would avoid running over the kid on his "(news)paper rout."

[ylaenna]

Phthartic wrote...

I also hate when sloppy use of language becomes popular, then accepted, then standard, then correct.

"lay" instead of "lie"
"could care less"
"can't hardly wait"

Oooh, I could go on and on...

[TanyaT]

Phthartic wrote...
I'm actually American but would prefer as much Anglicising of the writing and accents as possible. I just LOVED when Alistair talked about running around in his "small clothes..." but I would avoid running over the kid on his "(news)paper rout."

we call that a paper round ......

small clothes? it's not a phrase I know  ... we talk about our "smalls" or we did, don't think anyone uses that now - or maybe we wear bigs as we get older!.
Alistair couldn't run around in his undies if I was anywhere near

[SansRival]

All language is liquid. Due in part to the tremendous growth of technology as well as a greater pursuit for globalisation, however, once slow-moving liquids have become more mercurial than their former incarnations.

Requiring something to be "British" or "American" English now requires a time stamp. Do you want pre-2000 British English or post-1980 American English or American English between 1860-1940?

Language only ever appeared to be solid and codified. But much like science, mathematics, philosophy, and other tools used by humans on a daily basis, the more we used it, the more we explored it, and finally, the more we changed it.

For those who might think otherwise, I give to you the example of English (American, British, or otherwise) incubated within the internet and then filtered by character restrictions. This example is, of course, cell phone texting, Twitter, and the few gems of Urbandictionary where words, turns of phrase, and their meanings morph and mutate faster than they can be recorded.

Welcome to the new world. Best learn a lesson in patience since the different pronunciations of "route" is at least merely one of preference. I'm currently more concerned of dialogue anachronisms like the aforementioned "small clothes".

[Klidi]

SansRival wrote...

All language is liquid. Due in part to the tremendous growth of technology as well as a greater pursuit for globalisation, however, once slow-moving liquids have become more mercurial than their former incarnations.

Requiring something to be "British" or "American" English now requires a time stamp. Do you want pre-2000 British English or post-1980 American English or American English between 1860-1940?

Language only ever appeared to be solid and codified. But much like science, mathematics, philosophy, and other tools used by humans on a daily basis, the more we used it, the more we explored it, and finally, the more we changed it.

For those who might think otherwise, I give to you the example of English (American, British, or otherwise) incubated within the internet and then filtered by character restrictions. This example is, of course, cell phone texting, Twitter, and the few gems of Urbandictionary where words, turns of phrase, and their meanings morph and mutate faster than they can be recorded.

Welcome to the new world. Best learn a lesson in patience since the different pronunciations of "route" is at least merely one of preference. I'm currently more concerned of dialogue anachronisms like the aforementioned "small clothes".

I agree.

English is a global language, and it has both advantages and disadvantages. One of disadvantages, from the native speakers point of view, is that English is no longer 'theirs'. English belongs to anyone who learns it and they can use it in any way they want. Frustrating? Definitely. But there's nothing that can change it.

Inevitably, English will be changed, influenced by English used by non-native speakers... see David Crystal - Global English if you want to know more.

[Phthartic]

Sure. "Smalls" is just an abbreviation (or is that the technically correct term?) of "small clothes." An obscure term in its full length form by now, to be sure, but that's why it's fun to hear occasionally. Keep "smalls" alive! I wonder why I would have known the term if it's not commonly heard even in England... no idea.

Sir Laurence Olivier tells Michael Caine to get undressed "right down to your smalls... that's right" in the movie "Sleuth"

Yeah, I'm a linguistic conservative. I don't think all change is a good thing, but I know the language inevitably evolves; if not I'd be speaking, what ye Olde English? Saxon? Latin? Then I couldn't understand myself and that would be bad. Still, I'd rather have British English keep its individuality as long as possible.

[TanyaT]

difference between arse and ass cropped up last night.
Kardol in Orzammar said it didn't matter which "ass" was on the throne ..now I take that as meaning he has contempt for all leaders, but it might just have meant it didn't matter who's bum was on the seat because it all turns out the same.
I understood it as the former, because arse is used in Origins

Modifié par TanyaT, 20 septembre 2011 - 08:19 .

[lummoxybez]

Melvyn Bragg did a very good series on the English language a couple of years ago, and the first episode was about American-English.
It turns out that North-Americans retain lots more old English than we thought. The words 'drapes', 'fall' and 'gotten' are actually old English and have been substituted by newer words here in the UK.

Having said that, I agree that some of the VAs occasionally say some things that grate, and working for an international company, fully understand the distiction between 'root' and 'rout'. When speaking to network techies in the US, we are instructed to pronounce 'router' as 'rowda' somewhat facetiously.
'Off of' is another one that I'm sure needs no elaboration.

However, I'm from Lancashire and damn proud to retain my accent and linguistic colloquialisms. I say 'pants' instead of 'trousers', 'castle' and 'bath' instead of 'caaarstle' and 'baaarth', and refer to the evening meal as 'tea' rather than 'dinner', although that is probably a class distinction rather than a regional one.
(I also refuse to moderate my accent when speaking to other English accents. If I am expected to understand their accent, then they should understand mine.)

To be honest though, I'd much rather have US pronunciation of words as a standard than the horrible urban chav-talk that is currently prevalent here in the UK. I'm far more likely to enter a murderous rage when I hear '-th' pronounced as '-v' or '-f' than anything else. The proten nature of English is very nice and all, but I sometime wish we had the strict rules of French to prevent he chavs from taking over the language.