16 réponses à ce sujet

[Siduri]

I think my very favorite thing about DA2 is the way companions develop relationships among themselves, and the way these relationships change over time. I'm thinking here of the way that Fenris and Anders' initial arguments sour into true hatred by the end of the game--or, conversely, the way that Isabela and Aveline's spats mellow into grudging respect and finally real friendship.

Then there's the various romantic tensions among party members. Things like Isabela and Fenris'
friends-with-benefits arrangement, or Carver and Merrill's awkward, adorable failed flirtation. I know this is debatable, but to me it seems like Bethany has a little crush on Anders in the early game; she says a lot of admiring things to him, culminating in the exchange where they're talking about Malcolm Hawke and Anders says "You don't know how lucky you were, to have someone who loved you and could help you. Most mages would kill for that." Bethany's reply -- "You remind me of him" -- strikes me as awfully revealing. Almost as revealing is the fact that Anders says nothing in reponse. Is the line too mild to register as flirtation on his radar? Or does it register, and is he deliberately choosing not to encourage her? These are the moments when I really wish I could've been a fly on the wall in the writer's pit when they were coming up with the party banters.

Anyway, the main reason that I liked DA2 better than DA:O is that the relationships are more complex. I love the addition of the rivalry dynamic, and I love the extra weight given to relationships among NPCs. Looking forward to Dragon Age 3, though -- in the spirit of increasing player agency, and giving more importance to the player's decisions -- I hope that we can get more of a chance to influence the development of those NPC relationships. This already happens in DA2 in a fairly crude way: for instance, you can block Fenris and Isabela's relationship progression if you romance one of them yourself. But I'd really like to be able to pick up on the way that NPCs are interacting and take actions that would have an impact on those relationships. For instance, it would be awesome if, by choosing to keep Carver and Merrill together in the party, you could encourage that romance to blossom. Or if, say, the NPCs react differently to each other based on the way they've been influenced by the PC -- so that maybe Fenris and Anders would be less hostile to a fully-rivaled Merrill than they are to a friended one. These are just examples, since obviously the next game will have different companions. But basically, what I'm saying is "more of that, please!"

[berelinde]

I like the relationship between Bethany and Anders, too, but I don't quite see it the way you do. Anders has just said "You don't know how lucky you have it," a very paternal thing to say. Bethany responds with "You remind me of him." Had she followed it up with "And I already picked up my room, so there!" I would not have been surprised. But yeah, get big "daddy issue" vibes off of that, one way or another.

The flirtation fail between Carver and Merrill is one of my favorite parts of the game, though. In my slightly-AU headcanon, Carver becomes a Grey Warden and comes back for Merrill. He finally manages to blurt out everything he wants to say. And she is very confused. I still don't know how it ends, but I really hope those two can work it out.

[esper]

Don't forget that the third member can inject as well and even hawke and in Legacy the system had grown even more. I am looking foreward to da3's party banter very, very much. Don't ever remove that bioware.

[esper]

@Berelinde. In my headcanon, my Hawke was totally trying to pair Carver and Merrill up, because merrill was like a sister to her, and she would like if they were actualy family.

[Knight of Dane]

Crazy talk, Hawke wouldn't pair her girlfriend up with her brother or sister..

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 04 septembre 2011 - 07:14 .

[Apathy1989]

Indeed. Probably one of DAOs failings was that party members had a single stance to eachother that never really changed, bar from Lelianas banter changing a little if she was hardened. Suppose you could argue the events of DAO take place over a short period of time, but then again all the members are in camp and should be developing strong relationships quickly.

But yes, more inter-companion relationship development please!

[Siduri]

@berelinde I should specify that I don't think an Anders/Bethany romance would be a good thing. Whether or not she's interested, he doesn't seem to be, so it's a bit of a moot point. But I don't think her naivete would serve her well in an actual relationship with someone so...complicated...as Anders.

I also think the flirty dialogue that she has with Sebastian in Legacy is interesting --- although in that case it's Sebastian who's coming on strong, and Bethany mostly just seems flustered. In general that dialogue makes me like Sebastian a little bit less. It doesn't happen on the romanced friendship path, which is good, and on the unromanced rivalry path it's fine. But on the unromanced friendship path, given his commitment to his vows, he's just trifling with Bethany -- and that I don't like. Or on the romanced rivalry path, then Sebastian's the kind of dude who'll flirt with your sister when you're standing right there, which is obviously not cool.

Anyway, Sebastian/Bethany does seem like a better couple overall than Anders/Bethany, although I tend to think that Sebastian is so rudderless that he really needs to be be paired with someone with their own drive and strong internal compass. And that's...probably not Bethany.

Of all the potential pairings for Bethany, I have to admit I'm in the camp that likes Warden Bethany + Warden Alistair. It's only possible under a particularly narrow set of circumstances, of course, but given the power my Hawke would want to set up her sister with a truly good man -- someone who would appreciate Bethany's gentle sweetness, and protect her, and do their best to give her comfort and hope when she's forced to adjust to life among the Wardens. Alistair really does seem like a particularly fine candidate.

[esper]

I like the idea of unhardned warden Alistar/Bethany. They would be sweet.

[Jackalope]

Oh, Alistair and Bethany would be cute...except I don't think I ever finished a non-Alistair romance game. Back to work...

I was just thinking that while DA2 gets a low grade for set design and having the same caves over and over again, they get an A+++ for characters.

It sort of drove me crazy that I found the Friend/Rival concept so hard. Anders and Merrill will agree on pro-mage stances but not demons. Fenris gets irritated at both but tolerates Bethany. Fenris and Izzy seem to differ on being nice to people. Insane. On the other hand, everyone has groups of friends that don't get on with each other.

[Siduri]

Jackalope wrote...

Fenris gets irritated at both but tolerates Bethany.

I think Fenris and Bethany would be a good match too, actually.

[Knight of Dane]

That's too far fetched, Fenris bickers over anything magey unless he has really got to know them (Hawke, Bethany) that relationship would never work no matter how much personal respect they would have for each other.

I also thought that Alistair was one of the few people that would go very well with Bethany as they have very similar views.
Alot of people also pair Nathaniel and Bethany, but i simply think Nate isn't a relationships kinda guy.

[Siduri]

Yeah, not to rain on anyone else's fun, but Nathaniel strikes me as too absorbed by his own inner conflicts to really click with shy Bethany. I'm sure she'd be good for him, though, if they did manage to make a connection.

Fenris is surprisingly tender towards Bethany. There's the line he has with Anders in Act III:

Anders: Not all mages are weak.
Fenris: True. Bethany, for instance, was not weak.

They don't ever flirt though, so really it's another case of -- I think she'd be good for him, and that he would be protective of her, but I don't think they'd ever come together on their own.

[Knight of Dane]

Siduri wrote...

Yeah, not to rain on anyone else's fun, but Nathaniel strikes me as too absorbed by his own inner conflicts to really click with shy Bethany. I'm sure she'd be good for him, though, if they did manage to make a connection.

Fenris is surprisingly tender towards Bethany. There's the line he has with Anders in Act III:

Anders: Not all mages are weak.
Fenris: True. Bethany, for instance, was not weak.

They don't ever flirt though, so really it's another case of -- I think she'd be good for him, and that he would be protective of her, but I don't think they'd ever come together on their own.

Yeah but there is a difference between personal respect despite opinions (rivalry) and love, i sure as **** wouldn't want to date someone claiming blond people (aka myself included) to be the fulcrim of true evil and that the only solution to rid the world of their(mine) kind would be to lock them(us) in a tower where a specialized force with hairdryers and soap could watch us.

[Siduri]

Well, that's why I think she would be good for him. She's a counterexample to Merrill the Blood Mage and Anders the Abomination -- a mage who is the soul of innocence, and would obviously never hurt anybody.

Fenris can fall for a mage Hawke, so clearly it's not out of the question for him. And he's never mean to Bethany in-game, so I don't have any reason to think he'd treat her badly. I'm sure Hawke would have some very pointed things to say to him if he did!

Clearly this is totally subjective. These are just my own reasons for thinking they might actually work as a couple.

[berelinde]

@Siduri: Actually , I can't say much about who Bethany would or would not work with. Except for one warrior PT and one rogue PT, I play mages exclusively. Which means that I always get Carver. And I ship him with Merrill 'cause it's just too cute.

[Siduri]

I like to play rogues, but I've rolled a lot of mages simply because I {heart} Carver so much.

[Knight of Dane]

Siduri wrote...

Well, that's why I think she would be good for him. She's a counterexample to Merrill the Blood Mage and Anders the Abomination -- a mage who is the soul of innocence, and would obviously never hurt anybody.

Fenris can fall for a mage Hawke, so clearly it's not out of the question for him. And he's never mean to Bethany in-game, so I don't have any reason to think he'd treat her badly. I'm sure Hawke would have some very pointed things to say to him if he did!

Clearly this is totally subjective. These are just my own reasons for thinking they might actually work as a couple.

Of course, everything is up to perspective, for that matter i can't see why any mage Hawke would fall in love with a man that spits on everything they are at any turn, but i did do my mage!Hake/Fenrismance myself because i like the romantic value of a oppostionXopposition romance, though i much prefer his romance as a warrior or rogue.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 05 septembre 2011 - 12:28 .