344 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Nikon 001]

My wife brought up a valid point on her latest playthrough of ME2 which we both hope will be addressed in ME3

She felt that her female Shephard didn't move in a feminine way. She always sat with her legs open like a guy would, and the dancing... oh boy. I know both male and female Sheps both sucked when it came to dancing...

Did anyone else notice this? Hopefully we can have a nice feminine Shephard in ME3. Also... the hair. Hopefully we can have better hair. Some longer hair would be nice.

Who's with me??!

Modifié par Lord Nikon 001, 04 septembre 2011 - 10:17 .

[Beerfish]

See female hawke super sway hips walk and run in DA2.

[Tooneyman]

I can't talk about this one. Its been discussed to death, but yeah. I think they are already working on it. =D

[Biotic Sage]

Military culture is inherently masculine, so of course FemShep would have more than a few traits that most people would consider "traditionally masculine."

[Computer_God91]

I brought this up before...

Modifié par Computer_God91, 04 septembre 2011 - 10:25 .

[Biotic Sage]

Computer_God91 wrote...



I brought this up before...

Shep's just showin' off the goods.  Nobody's gonna jump in there without an invitation if they value their life.

[Captain Crash]

Computer_God91 wrote...

I brought this up before...

So to did I.   

Like said its been talked about and its something Bioware have acknowledged. However not everyone is a fan of changing her animations too much.   I dont think we will see her have own custom set of animations, but I would certainly hope for a little more polish on some aspects.

[Carfax]

*Resists urge to make smart assed  and perceivably sexist comment*

[Ace of Dawn]

See, the hilarious thing about this is that there are plenty of people that find her *too* feminine already. Yeah, it's amusing to read and whatnot. I never gave it too much thought one way or another, but that picture speaks volumes.

I would hope they would do something about that, but I could see it being a design issue. Most characters in the ME1 use a basic human "skeleton". They essentially all move the same way, which is why they couldn't get too elaborate on the character designs.

Now then, I have no idea if that stayed true for Mass Effect 2. But considering how everyone seems to move in similar fashions, I would assume so. And Mass Effect 3 seems to be in the same direction.

It's significantly more practical that way, accounting for different variations is a lot of work, I would imagine. Making a singular skeleton to be "referenced" for everything is more efficient. Unfortunately, it... exposes certain issues...

My 2 cents, anyway.

[Cheesy Blue]

FemShep is a Solider

Solider = Manly

nuff said

[Hathur]

Cost cutting measure - they attached the male rigging / animation to female Shepard rather than animate a whole new skeleton for femshep.

Unfortunate, but that's how it is.

[IrishSpectre257]

She did close her legs while having drinks with Liara. It's a start.

[Captain Crash]

I agree ace

Thing is people get confused by two distinct issues they merge into one.  That of resolving issues like clipping by having a seperate rig and that of damaging her "gender neutrality".  

Males and females are inheriently different physically. But thats not at all the core of it. The reason we need seperate animations is because of the rigs and meshes. I dont think people actually realise this is the issue and are waving their hand thinking its all about gender and girly physics. Its not.


Im all for gender neutrality but some people are using those two words to cloud an obvious issue.  The fact is using a rig intended for a male causes issues such as clipping and other problems.  If femshep frame and size were the same as Male Shepards there wouldn't be an issue.  But she isnt the same shape and size so there were problems in ME2 with it.  She uses a mesh different to the animation rig which causes problems.


By people saying "dont change it" and "keep them the same" because of gender neutrality it simply says to Bioware "there isnt a problem so dont fix it". Sorry but there were pleanty of obvious problems in ME2.   In an ideal world both male and female Shepard would have their own rig.  Somehow I dont think they will.  As I said, saying there isnt a problem with her animations gives the illusion to Bioware everything is fine.  It isnt, she doesnt have a proportional mesh/rig compared to her male counterpart so clipping can easily happen.   Polish will help this to some degree, but it doesnt address the issue.   


Just because she needs a rig doesnt mean it will strip away any gender neutrlity. It wont bother me if the motions similar for both genders.  Its needed to fix an obvious flaw in her animation design. That of proportions and size. Without it her frame will hover and clip in cutscenes like in ME2. 


However its expensive and time consuming to do!  So Im ruling it out.  I would just really like to see some more polish and some care put in.  I always felt it was there in ME1 but was a lacking in ME2 a bit.

[Kakistos_]

I don't think the way Shepard moved in ME2 was a masculine/feminine thing. Clearly the animation wasn't extensively worked on and both male and female Shepard moved like gorillas.

[SandSanta]

Cheesy Blue wrote...

FemShep is a Solider

Solider = Manly

nuff said

I know a couple of female marines that could thoroughly kick my ass yet manage to walk in a dress and high heels as well as any socialite.


Besides, it adds more variation and immersion to the game.  Especially for people who enjoy playing femshep.

Modifié par SandSanta, 04 septembre 2011 - 10:54 .

[Carfax]

SandSanta wrote...

I know a couple of female marines that could thoroughly kick my ass yet manage to walk in a dress and high heels as well as any socialite.

You must be a girly man..

[Ace of Dawn]

Captain Crash wrote...

I agree ace

Thing is people get confused by two distinct issues they merge into one.  That of resolving issues like clipping by having a seperate rig and that of damaging her "gender neutrality".  

Males and females are inheriently different physically. But thats not at all the core of it. The reason we need seperate animations is because of the rigs and meshes. I dont think people actually realise this is the issue and are waving their hand thinking its all about gender and girly physics. Its not.


Im all for gender neutrality but some people are using those two words to cloud an obvious issue.  The fact is using a rig intended for a male causes issues such as clipping and other problems.  If femshep frame and size were the same as Male Shepards there wouldn't be an issue.  But she isnt the same shape and size so there were problems in ME2 with it.  She uses a mesh different to the animation rig which causes problems.


By people saying "dont change it" and "keep them the same" because of gender neutrality it simply says to Bioware "there isnt a problem so dont fix it". Sorry but there were pleanty of obvious problems in ME2.   In an ideal world both male and female Shepard would have their own rig.  Somehow I dont think they will.  As I said, saying there isnt a problem with her animations gives the illusion to Bioware everything is fine.  It isnt, she doesnt have a proportional mesh/rig compared to her male counterpart so clipping can easily happen.   Polish will help this to some degree, but it doesnt address the issue.   


Just because she needs a rig doesnt mean it will strip away any gender neutrlity. It wont bother me if the motions similar for both genders.  Its needed to fix an obvious flaw in her animation design. That of proportions and size. Without it her frame will hover and clip in cutscenes like in ME2. 


However its expensive and time consuming to do!  So Im ruling it out.  I would just really like to see some more polish and some care put in.  I always felt it was there in ME1 but was a lacking in ME2 a bit.

Actually, I read something interesting today! The whole rig issue is part of the reason female characters are often seen with wedges or heels and the sort, it compensates for their height different, making things a bit easier on the animations.

Obviously not seamless, but they are aware of the issue. It would be nice if there were multiple rigs to make all the characters seem more "right" (Legion suffered the most from this). But at the same time, cost-benefit ration isn't huge, so I could hardly justify doing so myself.

As for the ME1 v ME2 in that regard, I am willing to agree... only because ME1 didn't have too much in the way of variations and elaborate character animations. Though I am still at a loss on Shep's head tilt when he ran...

[Hathur]

@ Captain Crash, you're right to assume they most likely will not attach a separate rigging for femshep even in ME3... afterall they still apply the exact same skeletal animation routines for all the aliens as they do Shepard (and all other humans).

There is literally 1 skeletal rigging in the whole entire game - all characters / species use it (this was even pointed out by Bioware in the Gameinformer video interviews many months back)... this is why Garrus has various clipping issues with guns -- his body is using a human skeletal animation rig.. yet his body is not fully designed to perform that without causing some visual glitches (clipping... namely due to the shape / size of his torso compared to a human.. hence why the rifle stock of his weapon always cuts through his armor in a very distracting manner).

The reason we're not likely to see a new rig for femshep is because it is neither easy nor cheap to create a whole new set of skeletal animations... it's not as simple as mo-capping the movements or hand animating them and slapping them on.... every time they make a new animation they have to spend endless hours making sure there is no anomalous behavior (clipping, etc)... 1 rig alone takes ages... a second different compounds this problem even further as they now literally doubled their work.

Then there's the question of timing.... syncing up the rig animations for cinematics and dialogue scenes so it runs smoothly (they already have problems with this caused by the fact that Hale and Meer speak their lines at different speeds... making the animators and audio guys struggle to keep everything synced up properly to avoid weird pauses, etc).

While I'd like to see a separate movement animation for femshep, I don't realistically expect it.

[Giant ambush beetle]

I'm fine with the way FemShep moves and fights, if you want your female character to move like on a cat walk and swing her hips like a fashion model you don't want to play a game where the main character is a bloody hardcore special ops soldier who kills people and saves the galaxy.
Female Shep moves efficiently, not girlishly.

[didymos1120]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

Though I am still at a loss on Shep's head tilt when he ran...

It's a buggy feature.  It's supposed to make Shep look in the direction of the nearest interactive person/object. 

[D.Kain]

SandSanta wrote...

Cheesy Blue wrote...

FemShep is a Solider

Solider = Manly

nuff said

I know a couple of female marines that could thoroughly kick my ass yet manage to walk in a dress and high heels as well as any socialite.


Besides, it adds more variation and immersion to the game.  Especially for people who enjoy playing femshep.

I enjoy playing a manly femshep. 

[SandSanta]

Carfax wrote...

SandSanta wrote...

I know a couple of female marines that could thoroughly kick my ass yet manage to walk in a dress and high heels as well as any socialite.

You must be a girly man..

No, I'm not.

[Siven80]

The Woldan wrote...

I'm fine with the way FemShep moves and fights, if you want your female character to move like on a cat walk and swing her hips like a fashion model you don't want to play a game where the main character is a bloody hardcore special ops soldier who kills people and saves the galaxy.
Female Shep moves efficiently, not girlishly.

Its replies like these who take the extreme examples which do my head in.

There are areas in which femsheps animations could do with some tinkering, just gotta be careful not to take it too far.

[D.Kain]

Carfax wrote...

SandSanta wrote...

I know a couple of female marines that could thoroughly kick my ass yet manage to walk in a dress and high heels as well as any socialite.

You must be a girly man..

Girly men can kick ass too you know. Just look at Cloud Strife.