489 réponses à ce sujet

[Wereparrot]

Ulous wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Indeed. But if we consider religious teaching to be brainwashing, then we must also consider similarly unprovable scientific theories currently taught as 'fact' (Big Bang, global warming, evolution) as brainwashing. Your bias is obvious, and your arrogance is typical of atheism.  

I suppose it depends upon where you get your information, but as far as i'm concerned the science community for the best part offer the big bang, global warming and evolution up as theories and they are open to debate on all of those issues, where as many religeous leaders will not debate the existance of god at all, as far as they are concerned a god or gods exist and that is the end of it.

It's true that some religious figures can be stubborn in clinging to beliefs, but this is only a generalization, and I've come across people who aren't like that at all: people who actually know what they're talking about and actually provide convincing evidence for the existence of a God and provide evidence that popular theories are more fallible than most care to admitt. Scientists, no less. All I'm saying is that people shouldn't say religious theories are wrong just because they don't agree with them, because the theories of science on the subject of origins and the eventual destiny of humanity are often just as fallible, and IMO some are more so.

[Ulous]

Wereparrot wrote...

It's true that some religious figures can be stubborn in clinging to beliefs, but this is only a generalization, and I've come across people who aren't like that at all: people who actually know what they're talking about and actually provide convincing evidence for the existence of a God and provide evidence that popular theories are more fallible than most care to admitt. Scientists, no less. All I'm saying is that people shouldn't say religious theories are wrong just because they don't agree with them, because the theories of science on the subject of origins and the eventual destiny of humanity are often just as fallible, and IMO some are more so.

That's fair enough, the only problem with regard to this thread is that God, if he exists or not isn't going to save us, that's why we possibly need to put our faith in science and in each other as opposed to a deity, because we can only help and save ourselves.

[Volus Warlord]

Ulous wrote...

That's fair enough, the only problem with regard to this thread is that God, if he exists or not isn't going to save us, that's why we possibly need to put our faith in science and in each other as opposed to a deity, because we can only help and save ourselves.

lol.

"Faith in Science."

Science is only as good as its practical utilites, and ability to achieve more practical utilites. Science does not provide-and was never intended to provide-anything else then that. Science is a tool, not a belief system.

Faith in each other?

At best you'll get disappointment, at worst you'll get a knife in the back.

[Wereparrot]

Ulous wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

It's true that some religious figures can be stubborn in clinging to beliefs, but this is only a generalization, and I've come across people who aren't like that at all: people who actually know what they're talking about and actually provide convincing evidence for the existence of a God and provide evidence that popular theories are more fallible than most care to admitt. Scientists, no less. All I'm saying is that people shouldn't say religious theories are wrong just because they don't agree with them, because the theories of science on the subject of origins and the eventual destiny of humanity are often just as fallible, and IMO some are more so.

That's fair enough, the only problem with regard to this thread is that God, if he exists or not isn't going to save us, that's why we possibly need to put our faith in science and in each other as opposed to a deity, because we can only help and save ourselves.

Yeah, just calling for a bit more balance.

[Volus Warlord]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

At best you'll get disappointment, at worst you'll get a knife in the back.

Christ, you sound like everyone's out to get everyone.

To a lesser or greater extent, they are...

[Ulous]

Volus Warlord wrote...

To a lesser or greater extent, they are...

Yes because the system demands it, it is not human nature.

[Volus Warlord]

Ulous wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

To a lesser or greater extent, they are...

Yes because the system demands it, it is not human nature.

Oh, so now we are back to the blaming the system again.  Find me a system where cutthroat nonsense does not exist. Good luck!

[Ulous]

Volus Warlord wrote...


Oh, so now we are back to the blaming the system again.

Yes it's that simple.

Volus Warlord wrote...
Find me a system where cutthroat nonsense does not exist. Good luck!

I can't because the entire world is gripped by global monetarism, you can not escape it no matter what your political alignment is.

It's not hard to see that the environent that was created for us was designed by the few to benefit the few, the rest of us just scrape by and at worst many of us die of starvation or preventable diseases. Money really is the root of all things bad in this world, it is a modern form of slavery.

Modifié par Ulous, 10 septembre 2011 - 02:23 .

[slimgrin]

Wereparrot wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Brainwashing is the most destructive thing, the indoctrination of children; and this is the specialty of religion: programming hate and ignorance for adulthood. It's designed to bend people to another's will. It's like a prison, the worst there is, and why we're still preparing ourselves in America for yet another nutjob to bomb us. All in the name of god.

Until the sky gods die, we'll never move on.

Indeed. But if we consider religious teaching to be brainwashing, then we must also consider similarly unprovable scientific theories currently taught as 'fact' (Big Bang, global warming, evolution) as brainwashing. Your bias is obvious, and your arrogance is typical of atheism.  

Those theories have more evidence backing them up than all the world religions combined. I believe it was Sam Harris who said if we stopped indoctrinating children now, religion could die in just a few generations. One can dream...

Modifié par slimgrin, 10 septembre 2011 - 03:27 .

[KenKenpachi]

Minus China which tried that has actully started brining up religion again and encouraging it as so many of its people turned immoral. In fact a huge deal has been started over this with signs promoting the 8 honors and 8 shames across all of China.(among other things.)

So yeah you can dream, but as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for. Most people arn't good unless given reasson to fear being bad. Be it prison, a gunshot, hell.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 10 septembre 2011 - 03:34 .

[DarkDragon777]

Luc0s wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Brainwashing is the most destructive thing, the indoctrination of children; and this is the specialty of religion: programming hate and ignorance for adulthood. It's designed to bend people to another's will. It's like a prison, the worst there is, and why we're still preparing ourselves in America for yet another nutjob to bomb us. All in the name of god.

Until the sky gods die, we'll never move on.

Indeed. But if we consider religious teaching to be brainwashing, then we must also consider similarly unprovable scientific theories currently taught as 'fact' (Big Bang, global warming, evolution) as brainwashing. Your bias is obvious, and your arrogance is typical of atheism.  

Those theories have more evidence backing them up than all the world religions combined. I believe it was Sam Harris who said if we stopped indoctrinating children now, religion could die in just a few generations. One can dream...

Agreed. Religion is one of the few things that keeps holding humanity back. I believe our progression would go so much faster with religion gone.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against people who believe in God. It's not the people who are f*cked up, it's the religious organisations, the religious system, that's f*cked up.

Nope, liberalism and total socialism are the only things holding us back. Religion actually betters us....well some of them.

Modifié par DarkDragon777, 10 septembre 2011 - 03:37 .

[Chromie]

slimgrin wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Brainwashing is the most destructive thing, the indoctrination of children; and this is the specialty of religion: programming hate and ignorance for adulthood. It's designed to bend people to another's will. It's like a prison, the worst there is, and why we're still preparing ourselves in America for yet another nutjob to bomb us. All in the name of god.

Until the sky gods die, we'll never move on.

Indeed. But if we consider religious teaching to be brainwashing, then we must also consider similarly unprovable scientific theories currently taught as 'fact' (Big Bang, global warming, evolution) as brainwashing. Your bias is obvious, and your arrogance is typical of atheism.  

Those theories have more evidence backing them up than all the world religions combined. I believe it was Sam Harris who said if we stopped indoctrinating children now, religion could die in just a few generations. One can dream...

Also science can change unlike relgiion. Religion its the word of whatever for now and forever. Science can change given enough evidence.

[KenKenpachi]

Religion isn't bad if you see it as a guideline on how to live life, rights and wrongs. Its bad when you take it for word of law and use it for holy crusade. And a number of the greatest inventors and scientist of the 20th (and back) century were religious men. However they view it much as I do, a set of guidlines, for judgement in death, stability in life. And Man has to fix his own problems on Earth for the betterment of mankind.

There is nothing wrong with feeding the poor in the name of religion. But there is with setting fire to a city in the name of it...considering most relgions are pretty clear thats only A-okay in war. And no other time really.

[slimgrin]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Minus China which tried that has actully started brining up religion again and encouraging it as so many of its people turned immoral. In fact a huge deal has been started over this with signs promoting the 8 honors and 8 shames across all of China.(among other things.)

So yeah you can dream, but as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for. Most people arn't good unless given reasson to fear being bad. Be it prison, a gunshot, hell.

Prisons and gunshots are real so they're better motivators. And humans do have a sense of empathy programmed into our genes; we'd never gotten this far otherwise. The one great thing about global interconnectedness is that it discourages tribal attitudes. We are constantly challenged to accept new values.

[RAF1940]

slimgrin wrote...
I believe it was Sam Harris who said if we stopped indoctrinating children now, religion could die in just a few generations. One can dream...

I find statements like this incredibly inappropriate and rude. And I'm an atheist.

The majority of the world population is religious. It's not going away. Sorry.

Modifié par RAF1940, 10 septembre 2011 - 03:50 .

[Wereparrot]

slimgrin wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Brainwashing is the most destructive thing, the indoctrination of children; and this is the specialty of religion: programming hate and ignorance for adulthood. It's designed to bend people to another's will. It's like a prison, the worst there is, and why we're still preparing ourselves in America for yet another nutjob to bomb us. All in the name of god.

Until the sky gods die, we'll never move on.

Indeed. But if we consider religious teaching to be brainwashing, then we must also consider similarly unprovable scientific theories currently taught as 'fact' (Big Bang, global warming, evolution) as brainwashing. Your bias is obvious, and your arrogance is typical of atheism.  

Those theories have more evidence backing them up than all the world religions combined. I believe it was Sam Harris who said if we stopped indoctrinating children now, religion could die in just a few generations. One can dream...

No. For example, take the Big Bang theory: It violates all three laws of thermodynamics and the law of cause and effect, not to mention the fact that it doesn't explain origins at all, because there had to be matter around for there to be a Big Bang anyway, and where did that come from? Don't try and tell me that's not as far-fetched as Creationism. Both have no grounding in what is physically and humanly possible.

And teaching such theories as fact isn't indoctrination at all.

Modifié par Wereparrot, 10 septembre 2011 - 03:57 .

[KenKenpachi]

slimgrin wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

Minus China which tried that has actully started brining up religion again and encouraging it as so many of its people turned immoral. In fact a huge deal has been started over this with signs promoting the 8 honors and 8 shames across all of China.(among other things.)

So yeah you can dream, but as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for. Most people arn't good unless given reasson to fear being bad. Be it prison, a gunshot, hell.

Prisons and gunshots are real so they're better motivators. And humans do have a sense of empathy programmed into our genes; we'd never gotten this far otherwise. The one great thing about global interconnectedness is that it discourages tribal attitudes. We are constantly challenged to accept new values.

All I'll say to this is hahaha, alot of wiped out people's would like a word with you. Hell pretty much anyone that lived in South America after the spanish arrived, and also China DOES shoot and imprison people, if religion works better, so be it. And honestly if it was proven there was no afterlife a great many people I just do nothing to I would happily be rid of, as I don't care for the ways of this world or fear death. If I can take others with me thats A-okay.

But yeah I'm sure the Mayan's would like to agree with you, or all the people's they wiped out, but yeah the Spanish killed all of them. Hell just like the Turks being dominate in Central Asia, thats thanks to the Mongols, they killed everyone else.

And then you have the holocuast, internment camps, war crimes, genocides, and most of these in the modern "enlgihtend age" and progressives have been responisble for tens of millions of Deaths in the name of human advancement.


A pitty the graves can't speak.

[RAF1940]

slimgrin wrote...

Until the sky gods die, we'll never move on.

Ah, another rude comment.

[slimgrin]

RAF1940 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
I believe it was Sam Harris who said if we stopped indoctrinating children now, religion could die in just a few generations. One can dream...

I find statements like this incredibly inappropriate and rude. And I'm an atheist.

Then you're just being politically correct, which is even worse. I've not discouraged the religious folks from having their say, they should do so unhampered by politness. It goes both ways, and so we've had a great debate.

Modifié par slimgrin, 10 septembre 2011 - 03:52 .

[RAF1940]

KenKenpachi wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

Minus China which tried that has actully started brining up religion again and encouraging it as so many of its people turned immoral. In fact a huge deal has been started over this with signs promoting the 8 honors and 8 shames across all of China.(among other things.)

So yeah you can dream, but as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for. Most people arn't good unless given reasson to fear being bad. Be it prison, a gunshot, hell.

Prisons and gunshots are real so they're better motivators. And humans do have a sense of empathy programmed into our genes; we'd never gotten this far otherwise. The one great thing about global interconnectedness is that it discourages tribal attitudes. We are constantly challenged to accept new values.

All I'll say to this is hahaha, alot of wiped out people's would like a word with you. Hell pretty much anyone that lived in South America after the spanish arrived, and also China DOES shoot and imprison people, if religion works better, so be it. And honestly if it was proven there was no afterlife a great many people I just do nothing to I would happily be rid of, as I don't care for the ways of this world or fear death. If I can take others with me thats A-okay.

But yeah I'm sure the Mayan's would like to agree with you, or all the people's they wiped out, but yeah the Spanish killed all of them. Hell just like the Turks being dominate in Central Asia, thats thanks to the Mongols, they killed everyone else.

And then you have the holocuast, internment camps, war crimes, genocides, and most of these in the modern "enlgihtend age" and progressives have been responisble for tens of millions of Deaths in the name of human advancement.


A pitty the graves can't speak.

I, were I the leader of a country, would much rather have a "nice" religious population than a "wild" irreligious one.

Also Ken's last paragraph. Not everything should be done in the name of human advancement. If it should, let's just kill off everyone causing the species to become genetically weak. Maybe kill off a couple of billion people for our own resource needs.

[RAF1940]

slimgrin wrote...

RAF1940 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
I believe it was Sam Harris who said if we stopped indoctrinating children now, religion could die in just a few generations. One can dream...

I find statements like this incredibly inappropriate and rude. And I'm an atheist.

Then you're just being politically correct, which is even worse. I've not discouraged the religious folks from having their say, they should do so unhampered by politness. It goes both ways, and so we've had a great debate.

I'm not trying to be politically correct. I don't think it's a appropriate to say something many, many people have faith in should "die".