337 réponses à ce sujet

[Arppis]

Bcuz wrote...

Arppis wrote...

It's just people who want no conciquences of their actions. They should stop watching Renegade and Paragon colors when they make decissions and decide what seems to be the best sollution.

Changing my sig to this.

Whoa really? Wau! 

[LeVaughnX]

bobobo878 wrote...

mango smoothie wrote...

I make my decisions based on what I would do in that situation. I really don't pay much attention to the paragon and renegade bars until after the game to see where I'm at according the to the game. Also almost every decision in the game I see the pros and cons for each one. People need to make decisions on what they feel is right to do, and not for trying to get red or blue

Exactly, a few blue paragon points aren't going to make me feel any better when the Thorian spores get off world and take root.
I usually try to avoid most of the flame wars.  The religion vs no religion ones are particularly annoying.  But there are certain some issues are more important.  If someone suggests, for example, that the Revenant is somehow worse than the Avenger, I cannot allow them to go uncorrected.

My problem is I 100% agree with maybe 95% of the Paragon reactions, but I also wish I could (in a very nice and Paragonish way) disagree with a lot of the people and situations in the game. For example; I'd like to have had a chance to tell off / prove myself right to the council without basically picking the Renegade "Screw you" remark.

That is a pretty big flaw in Mass Effect - lack of a spectrum. But most people don't care; they just want Paragons to suffer.

[Davie McG]

LeVaughnX wrote...

Davie McG wrote...

I think renegade players will still face the Rachni. Cerberus is an antagonist now, and they had access to Rachni eggs. It wouldn't be very wise to exclude one or the other by limiting their content.

My god I hate stupid people like you. You ruin the game and community you know that?

For the last time - NO ONE IS "LOSING CONTENT"!! YOU STILL HAVE THE CONTENT JACKASS YOU JUST PLAY WITH THE DECISIONS YOU MADE!!

And I doubt the Rachni will be SUCH A THREAT in the game if you killed off the Queen. There may be SOME Rachni but many more will exist during the Paragon's run (because we saved the Queen and shes bringing them back).

Also - as I've said....RENEGADE PLAYERS HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF CONTENT! You guys (and gals) just need to understand that your decisions influence what exactly you do, run into, and how the story plays out (to an extent). YOU DON'T "LOSE" ANYTHING!

Excuse me? There's no need for personal insults.

In regard to whether or not you lose content, you don't think that having enemies removed from your game is losing content?

I realise they won't be a game changer but if I was playing as a renegade I wouldn't want my combat made easier just because I squished a bug in the first game. I'm mostly a paragon player but I have characters that are paragon and ones that are renegade.

As I said before, I'm not even that in favour of the paragon / renegade system, it limits you and influences your decision by saying if your a good guy choose this if not choose that. I try to play by just choosing which one makes more sense to me but then I always end up limited later on because I don't have enough points for one or the other.

[Biotic Sage]

@LeVaughnX

Looking back over this thread, I've noticed that you repeatedly belittle people, dismiss civil discussion, and just seem to take the general "I'm a jerk" attitude.  This would be fine, since a lot of people around here seem to adopt the "not here to make friends, fck u" philosophy, but then I noticed your profile description:

"A gamer, lover, fighter, writer, voice actor, who believes in freedom, peace, cooperation and fairness."

You should take out these descriptors because they aren't applicable.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 05 septembre 2011 - 07:09 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

I try to play by just choosing which one makes more sense to me but then I always end up limited later on because I don't have enough points for one or the other.

I tend to play through twice. Half the game as pure paragon, half as pure renegade. Build up alignment/charm/intimidate. Then redo the entire game with the same Shepard and make any of the choices i want, it's the only way to do it.

The alignment system isn't actually intergrated into the core of the game, so it feels a lot like a restriction. There's always ways around it though.

[Arppis]

mango smoothie wrote...

I make my decisions based on what I would do in that situation. I really don't pay much attention to the paragon and renegade bars until after the game to see where I'm at according the to the game. Also almost every decision in the game I see the pros and cons for each one. People need to make decisions on what they feel is right to do, and not for trying to get red or blue

Yep, althou it does amuse me when people care maybe bit too much of the decissions in this game, they really shouldn't care THAT much. And if other choice gets the things they like, go for it. Both decissions after all lead to victory, but trough diffirent paths.

[DCarter]

LeVaughnX wrote...

DCarter wrote...

You're just speculating about the rachni choice. Granted your outcomes seem plausible but you can't state them as definitive facts until we actually see them unfold as we play through the game.

Moving on, paragon vs renegade was never meant to equate to good vs bad. You play commander shepard an elite soldier saving the galaxies advanced species from doom at the hands of the reapers. Your a god damn hero regardless of whether you smile or scowl at people.

I agree with you that your actions should have consequences but the common theme with renegade choices in ME1 is that you end up with less content in ME2 (emails or characters).

Lets play the logic game! 

Bioware showed Rachni Reaper Hybrids (Rachni Husks). They've said a lot of Paragon choices have the chance to really screw us over (no I'm not bothering to get proof I'm lazy - get it yourself if you direly need it). Its only LOGICAL to assume that the Rachni surviving would be the reason we fight Rachni Husks / possibly a Rachni Reaper! Why? Because we let the Queen of one loose! We told her ""go - be free - rebuild"" which basically gives the Reapers more ammo!

Renegades killed her - thus giving them less of a foe to fight in the long run! Why? SHE COULDN'T BRING HER PEOPLE TOGETHER AND REBUILD THEM! Durp!

Logic is the idiots substituion for science. The age of enlightenment only came about when people stopped trying to use pure logic (read: speculation) and started conduction experiments. 

I never disagreed with your scenario, i only stated that it is your scenario and as far as we know not actually a part of the game. The only argument i'm making is that thus far biowares approach has led to renegade choices ending a story thread while the paragons counter choice has led to a new development in that paticular side story. I hope and from the noises the developers are making it seems reasonable to assume this will not be the case in ME3. 

[Biotic Sage]

DCarter wrote...

Logic is the idiots substituion for science.  The age of enlightenment only came about when people stopped trying to use pure logic (read: speculation) and started conduction experiments.

I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to call you out on this one:  Say WHAAA??? hahaha

Science and logic are interchangeable.  Speculation is hypothesizing, which is based on educated, logical reasoning.  Seriously, people just like throwin words around on these forums.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 05 septembre 2011 - 07:21 .

[ObserverStatus]

LeVaughnX wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

mango smoothie wrote...

I make my decisions based on what I would do in that situation. I really don't pay much attention to the paragon and renegade bars until after the game to see where I'm at according the to the game. Also almost every decision in the game I see the pros and cons for each one. People need to make decisions on what they feel is right to do, and not for trying to get red or blue

Exactly, a few blue paragon points aren't going to make me feel any better when the Thorian spores get off world and take root.
I usually try to avoid most of the flame wars.  The religion vs no religion ones are particularly annoying.  But there are certain some issues are more important.  If someone suggests, for example, that the Revenant is somehow worse than the Avenger, I cannot allow them to go uncorrected.

My problem is I 100% agree with maybe 95% of the Paragon reactions, but I also wish I could (in a very nice and Paragonish way) disagree with a lot of the people and situations in the game. For example; I'd like to have had a chance to tell off / prove myself right to the council without basically picking the Renegade "Screw you" remark.

That is a pretty big flaw in Mass Effect - lack of a spectrum. But most people don't care; they just want Paragons to suffer.

That's why I usually use Rengade options for the most important decisions and Paragon options for general conversation.  I find that Paragon Shepard is far more persuasive in his defense of Renegade Shepard's actions than Renegade Shepard is himself. For example, I understand the need for Cerberus's help in ME2, but I still like to make it clear to the characters who ask that I work with Cerberus, not for them.

[DCarter]

Biotic Sage wrote...

DCarter wrote...

Logic is the idiots substituion for science.  The age of enlightenment only came about when people stopped trying to use pure logic (read: speculation) and started conduction experiments.

I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to call you out on this one:  Say WHAAA??? hahaha

Science and logic are interchangeable.  Speculation is hypothesizing, which is based on educated, logical reasoning.  Seriously, people just like throwin words around on these forums.

Yes a logical hypophesis is the first step in the scientific process but it takes a smart man to actually take the next step and test the hypophesis. Our perspective is so limited that even the soundest reasoning can lead to outcomes absurdly far from the truth. Without experimentation you can logically deduce just about anything. 

In the case of the origional arguement LeVaughnX's speculation on ME3s conclusion of the rachni choice seem plausible but until we get ME3 we can't know whether he's right or not so i see no point on bringing his speculation into the greater paragon/renegade debate ragardless of how logical his scenario is. 

Modifié par DCarter, 05 septembre 2011 - 07:32 .

[mango smoothie]

bobobo878 wrote...

LeVaughnX wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

mango smoothie wrote...

I make my decisions based on what I would do in that situation. I really don't pay much attention to the paragon and renegade bars until after the game to see where I'm at according the to the game. Also almost every decision in the game I see the pros and cons for each one. People need to make decisions on what they feel is right to do, and not for trying to get red or blue

Exactly, a few blue paragon points aren't going to make me feel any better when the Thorian spores get off world and take root.
I usually try to avoid most of the flame wars.  The religion vs no religion ones are particularly annoying.  But there are certain some issues are more important.  If someone suggests, for example, that the Revenant is somehow worse than the Avenger, I cannot allow them to go uncorrected.

My problem is I 100% agree with maybe 95% of the Paragon reactions, but I also wish I could (in a very nice and Paragonish way) disagree with a lot of the people and situations in the game. For example; I'd like to have had a chance to tell off / prove myself right to the council without basically picking the Renegade "Screw you" remark.

That is a pretty big flaw in Mass Effect - lack of a spectrum. But most people don't care; they just want Paragons to suffer.

That's why I usually use Rengade options for the most important decisions and Paragon options for general conversation.  I find that Paragon Shepard is far more persuasive in his defense of Renegade Shepard's actions than Renegade Shepard is himself. For example, I understand the need for Cerberus's help in ME2, but I still like to make it clear to the characters who ask that I work with Cerberus, not for them.

Lol I'm opposite most of my major decisions are Paragon probably 80%, But most of my talk options are renegade I like to go Jack Bauer as I feel it gets me information quicker.

[E-Type XR]

The way I see it, Renegade's complain that because they shot a guy, he can't give them help, and that is so unfair.

Modifié par E-Type XR, 05 septembre 2011 - 07:53 .

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Arppis wrote...

It's just people who want no conciquences of their actions. They should stop watching Renegade and Paragon colors when they make decissions and decide what seems to be the best sollution.

Except that the game actually includes its kinda-sorta morality scale as a conflict resolution mechanic.  I think my biggest irritation with anything like a Renegade/Paragon scale is that my character's decisions are suddenly shoehorned into a game developer's morality concerning situations that often aren't even adequately explained.

[The Twilight God]

Funny enough, there have (to date) been no reprecussions, positive or negative, for any decisions so the argument is pretty stupid.  Some asari messenger claiming the Queen will help or Cerberus commandos attacking Shepard does not mean saving the rachni queen was beneficial or that keeping the collector base was a bad decision. For all we know a reapers may be able to simply send a tone through space and indoctrinate every last rachni or, after dealing with TIM we get access to advanced reaper schematics leading to anti-reaper weaponry. Unless you're fixiated over cameos - I repeat - there have been no reprecussions whatsoever so far.

However, I admit some things could have been handled diferent. For instance, Shiala(paragon)/Lizbeth(renegade) on Illium. An alternate assistant Okeer on Korlos. A human council, etc. Making a renegade save game be nearly equivalent to not having an import save at all was kinda a diss toward people who imported heavily renegade saves. I think that is where alot of anger comes from, but that anger gets erroneously focused toward the descisions because people assume decisions will turn out as "badly" as the cameos for renegade players.

The only problem I had with paragon/renegade was in ME1 where by simply doing the content, you were given paragon points. It's a game. I don't by games to ignore content and they offer no renegade alternative. In the vast majority of cases you either do the "paragon" quests or do nothing (and miss out of experience points/loot). There is nothing above and beyond paragon about wiping out the geth in the tunnels under Zhu's Hope. There is nothing paragon about taking down geth comms or destroying their rocket drones on Virmire. That's a soldier doing his job. However, there are no situations where you automatically get renegade points for simply playing the game.

ME1: Renegade = evil, paragon = good
ME2: Renegade = badass, paragon = wuss
ME3: Hopefully they find a balance this time.

I played a renegon and I was barely considered renegade. I think I have 11.25 renegade to 10 paragon bars at the end of that ME1 playthrough. Appearently you have to be a complete evil douchbag to be full on renegade in ME1 which I hated. I also hate how your actions may not effect renegade points but rather or not you pick a red option. Kill someone? 0 to +2 points... if you're lucky. Take the paragon route while being more forceful (red option)? +9 renegade. I'll leave it at that as I'm getting of topic here.

[Moonshadow_Dark]

E-Type XR wrote...

The way I see it, Renegade's complain that because they shot a guy, he can't give them help, and that is so unfair.

That's why you ask first, shoot to kill later.

Interrogation is hard.

[mauro2222]

mango smoothie wrote...

I make my decisions based on what I would do in that situation. I really don't pay much attention to the paragon and renegade bars until after the game to see where I'm at according the to the game. Also almost every decision in the game I see the pros and cons for each one. People need to make decisions on what they feel is right to do, and not for trying to get red or blue

Yeah, I tend to do that, but the stupid paragon/renegade system sends my squad to death or to loose their loyalty u.u

[mauro2222]

Hehe I think it was Rana Thanoptis.

[Arppis]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Arppis wrote...

It's just people who want no conciquences of their actions. They should stop watching Renegade and Paragon colors when they make decissions and decide what seems to be the best sollution.

Except that the game actually includes its kinda-sorta morality scale as a conflict resolution mechanic.  I think my biggest irritation with anything like a Renegade/Paragon scale is that my character's decisions are suddenly shoehorned into a game developer's morality concerning situations that often aren't even adequately explained.

Yeah, the second game's way to do it was annoying. But it didn't bother me THAT much. I still chose renegade options when I deemed them smarter.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Ah,this thread is productive,we are building bridges.

So proud.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Ah,this thread is productive,we are building bridges.

So proud.

Me too. Let's hold hands and sing "Kumbaya."

Is that spelled right? I don't care.

<3

This world is made of
LOVE AND PEACE!
LOVE AND PEACE!
LOVE AND PEACE!:innocent:

http://t1.gstatic.co...7iWTnT6RVMLzsip

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 05 septembre 2011 - 09:31 .

[jaza]

LeVaughnX wrote...

Seboist wrote...

LeVaughnX wrote...

I was surfing the threads as per usual and I saw ""Some Paragon Choices Should Backfire"" - instantly I thought ""Oh if this moron puts at the top of the list the Rachni Queen it just means he's a raging little kid.""...And what do you know, that was his very first complaint! I don't think the Renagade (Renegade?) players understand a little thing I'd like to call "logic"; let me help out with some examples.


If you are a "bad guy" who makes "negative choices" or basically do things that don't earn respect but does generate a "ruthless aura" about you - who is honestly going to give two sh*ts if you live or die? Only the other really rude/bad/cruel ****s will really care; and even then they are still rude/bad/cruel people who will probably either die before you do or just do their own thing without a second thought (no honor among theives etc).

If you are a "good guy" who makes "positive choices" or basically do things that help others or progress the over all progression of a persons life; you generate a commanding aura about you that genuinely makes everyone else inspired and feel more like they can trust you. This builds positive reinforcement and gives everyone you work with more of an optomistic (sp) feeling rather than doubt and dispaire. This means also they are more inclined to listen to you and follow you / care about you.


Now let me give you the ""Rachni Live or Die"" example real quick...

Rachni Queen Lives:: Paragon Points are given and now you have a new ally against the Reapers. The problem here is (as you've seen already) while we can use the Rachni and fight along side them; this also gives the Reapers a new tool to cause us more trouble during the fights. They can (as we've seen!) use the Rachni to make massive war-spider things to basically kick our asses! So its a double edged sword; we gain an ally but also gain a new enemy!


Rachni Queen Dies:: Renegade Points are given (killing someone who can't fight back) and you've lost the ally vs the Reapers. The good thing about this is; now you don't have any real chance that the Reapers can somehow magically find and use the Rachni against you! Your army may be smaller; but at least your enemy isn't as powerful either!

I could go on and on about the good vs bad choices and why it would negatively affect BOTH PARTIES but I don't think I really need to. I'm giving the community the benifit of the doubt that you guys aren't that niave >_>...

Only a bleeding heart simpleton with a lack of imagination thinks renegade is about being a "bad guy" who makes "negative choices" that benefit nobody. There's plenty of renegade choices that should get Shepard respect and support like with the Krogans for killing the Rachni or the Quarians from destroying the heretic Geth in Legion's LM.

Of course with all the issues of cut corners, Bioware's moral dilema with dealing the two paths fairly, choices existing in vacuums from each other, etc none of this will come to fruition. The Renegade path is just a gimped version of the Paragon one with joke dialogue and cut content and exists soley to hide the story's linearity.

It was an example...God you Renegade players sure get butt-hurt over the smallest fu*king thing....Get banned you goblin...

Anyone who uses the word "butt-hurt" instanly loses all credability.

You "goblin".