337 réponses à ce sujet

[Aumata]

LeVaughnX wrote...

DCarter wrote...

You're just speculating about the rachni choice. Granted your outcomes seem plausible but you can't state them as definitive facts until we actually see them unfold as we play through the game.

Moving on, paragon vs renegade was never meant to equate to good vs bad. You play commander shepard an elite soldier saving the galaxies advanced species from doom at the hands of the reapers. Your a god damn hero regardless of whether you smile or scowl at people.

I agree with you that your actions should have consequences but the common theme with renegade choices in ME1 is that you end up with less content in ME2 (emails or characters).

Lets play the logic game! 

Bioware showed Rachni Reaper Hybrids (Rachni Husks). They've said a lot of Paragon choices have the chance to really screw us over (no I'm not bothering to get proof I'm lazy - get it yourself if you direly need it). Its only LOGICAL to assume that the Rachni surviving would be the reason we fight Rachni Husks / possibly a Rachni Reaper! Why? Because we let the Queen of one loose! We told her ""go - be free - rebuild"" which basically gives the Reapers more ammo!

Renegades killed her - thus giving them less of a foe to fight in the long run! Why? SHE COULDN'T BRING HER PEOPLE TOGETHER AND REBUILD THEM! Durp!

Except Bioware told us that we fighting the rachni whether we killed the queen or not.  Which is complete bull, because what was the point of killing the queen.

[AlexXIV]

Aumata wrote...

LeVaughnX wrote...

DCarter wrote...

You're just speculating about the rachni choice. Granted your outcomes seem plausible but you can't state them as definitive facts until we actually see them unfold as we play through the game.

Moving on, paragon vs renegade was never meant to equate to good vs bad. You play commander shepard an elite soldier saving the galaxies advanced species from doom at the hands of the reapers. Your a god damn hero regardless of whether you smile or scowl at people.

I agree with you that your actions should have consequences but the common theme with renegade choices in ME1 is that you end up with less content in ME2 (emails or characters).

Lets play the logic game! 

Bioware showed Rachni Reaper Hybrids (Rachni Husks). They've said a lot of Paragon choices have the chance to really screw us over (no I'm not bothering to get proof I'm lazy - get it yourself if you direly need it). Its only LOGICAL to assume that the Rachni surviving would be the reason we fight Rachni Husks / possibly a Rachni Reaper! Why? Because we let the Queen of one loose! We told her ""go - be free - rebuild"" which basically gives the Reapers more ammo!

Renegades killed her - thus giving them less of a foe to fight in the long run! Why? SHE COULDN'T BRING HER PEOPLE TOGETHER AND REBUILD THEM! Durp!

Except Bioware told us that we fighting the rachni whether we killed the queen or not.  Which is complete bull, because what was the point of killing the queen.

Husks don't count. They can huskify any race, not just Rachni.

Also I think if the Reapers want to indoctrinate Rachni they can do that without having a queen. And the queen may be strong enough to break or block Reaper indoctrination. Just theories of course. Anyway, there is no 'logic' thing to do because you have not enough knowledge of the matter to use logic on. Like in most decisions, which is why I think they are rather morale choices than tactical/logical ones.

[Labrev]

 It's just one particularly loud and annoying faction housed on this site. And, they aren't really renegades, they're wannabes who are pretty much paragons at heart. They rail on the other side for having their cake and eating it, but want the same. They get worked up over and acted victimized when people insult/generalize them, even though all they ever do is call out the other side. They don't want consequences of their actions in real life, let alone the game.


In short, they're wussies. Unfortunately, there are no notable "real" renegades on this site.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 25 décembre 2011 - 04:58 .

[Aumata]

What the hell is a "real" renegades?

[AlexXIV]

Aumata wrote...

What the hell is a "real" renegades?

Me in a bad mood.

[Dave of Canada]

A "real" renegade has to accept blindly that he's second fiddle.

[Destroy Raiden_]

LeVaughnX wrote...

Arppis wrote...

It's just people who want no conciquences of their actions. They should stop watching Renegade and Paragon colors when they make decissions and decide what seems to be the best sollution.

Yeah; the Renegade think they are losing "content" because they aren't acting like a hero constantly. If they really don't like that they "die" during the final battle in ME2 - well try not being a dick to everyone!

I've not really seen the Paragons complain about much (if anything) and they (if anything!) have said they will be getting concequences quite often during ME3; sometimes saving someone may sound noble but it could always come back and bite you in the ass.


I just don't understand the mindless war going on...There IS a logic behind it...unlike the other flame wars going on.


Gay vs Straight
Religion vs No Religion
Shooters vs RPG Fans

Blah blah blah...

Exactly it's a us vs them mentality with the whole rens screaming how para should be the side that gets the bad ending because they were too nice to everyone? Paras say rens should get the bad ending because they're galactic jerks to everyone and kill or alienate potential allies.

Para are more or less a traditional Hero type of persona
Rens are an anti hero which the name in itself means not or against being a hero so why be one again? 

Rens say they miss out on all the content that the paras get rewarded constantly for being nice while they constantly get punished for being mean? Really we're rewarding killers and jerks in society since when? Para players shouldn't be rewarded for doing positive things since when? How does reward the bad but punish the good work out in the long run again?

Para players should get more benefits with para aligned organisations, cultures, and npcs. Rens should get more benefits with ren aligned organizations, cultures, and npcs.

For instance a natural wall would exist if Aria was real between para players and herself she is a ren person. Rens would naturally fit right on in with her gain insight into her character and so on and so fourth why because she could be on level with them. Aria may still want to stab you in the back eventually but for a short time she'll make you feel at home.

I can see ren players having to do more work to not only get allies but keep them ren persona's don't work well in the long term with one another for one major reason they all want power, or what another group within the group has thats why you can unit communists, anarchist, socialists, and others together under one over arching goal for a short time but after the goal is done they start to eat each other because they want the power all the other groups want and they don't play well with one another because of power, control, and greed.

Paras should have an easier time securing past allies that were aligned para anyway like the Turians they respect authority paras can give that respect rens really can't, though if paragade sheps do to many ren things that go against Turian ideals they may have to go back to the drawing board to gain the Turian trust factor back some ren choices will make reaffirming the ally status not possible like letting a high population of Turian colony die because you didn't want the reapers to know you could understand their communications.

Both para and rens will have consequences but more importantly they'll both have resources and allies they can use. To me it seems like logic is not the issue with the para vs ren war its more like my shep is better then yours or my ren choices make me better and more special then your para ones do. In the end players of the paragade and renagons should be the ones to actually get the best results because they play on a case by case basis and use logic to determine how they will move forth.

[Dean_the_Young]

Language, Saphra.

It's Christmas, after all.

Plus, I don't loathe all of any group here, so do kindly not mischaracterize me as well.

[Bleachrude]

 Here's a question I always wondered...(and personally why I think the paragon/renegade system falls down)

What is the renegade/paragon choice between Harrowmount and Bhelen from Dragon Age: Origins?

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Language, Saphra.

It's Christmas, after all.

Plus, I don't loathe all of any group here, so do kindly not mischaracterize me as well.

You're not one of us. You're probably an enemy spy.

He's not one of us? Damn I should have known. He always sounded turian to me.

[AlexXIV]

Bleachrude wrote...

 Here's a question I always wondered...(and personally why I think the paragon/renegade system falls down)

What is the renegade/paragon choice between Harrowmount and Bhelen from Dragon Age: Origins?

Harrowmont is paragon, Bhelen is renegade.

[Bleachrude]

AlexXIV wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

 Here's a question I always wondered...(and personally why I think the paragon/renegade system falls down)

What is the renegade/paragon choice between Harrowmount and Bhelen from Dragon Age: Origins?

Harrowmont is paragon, Bhelen is renegade.

Is Harrowmount though a paragon? Play the game as a dwarven rogue (casteless) and talk with Harrowmount or simply talk with the dwarven people about harrowmount...the "paragon" harrowmount thinks nothing of casteless and believes very strongly that if you are casteless, you will ALWAYS be casteless and treated as such....

Does that sound like a paragon choice to you?

Bhelen of course is no paragon but he actually sees the value of integrating the casteless into dwarven society...indeed, he takes a casteless as a wife which harrowmount would never do.... 

[AlexXIV]

Bleachrude wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

 Here's a question I always wondered...(and personally why I think the paragon/renegade system falls down)

What is the renegade/paragon choice between Harrowmount and Bhelen from Dragon Age: Origins?

Harrowmont is paragon, Bhelen is renegade.

Is Harrowmount though a paragon? Play the game as a dwarven rogue (casteless) and talk with Harrowmount or simply talk with the dwarven people about harrowmount...the "paragon" harrowmount thinks nothing of casteless and believes very strongly that if you are casteless, you will ALWAYS be casteless and treated as such....

Does that sound like a paragon choice to you?

Bhelen of course is no paragon but he actually sees the value of integrating the casteless into dwarven society...indeed, he takes a casteless as a wife which harrowmount would never do.... 

Bhelen is an opportunist. He is doing what he thinks he benefits himself most, without thought of others. It may coincide with what you would call virtuous, but it is not his motivation to be.

Harrowmont may be wrong in a lot of things but he follows the laws and tradition. So he is an example in this regard. He is an honorable and integre person in general.

The thing in DA:O is that 'evil' decissions may play out well enough. You still get neither punished nor rewarded for the choices you make.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 25 décembre 2011 - 07:13 .

[daftPirate]

Aumata wrote...

Except Bioware told us that we fighting the rachni whether we killed the queen or not.  Which is complete bull, because what was the point of killing the queen.

The queen choice was little weird because we saw in ME1 that there are Rachni elsewhere in the galaxy. They didn't make it very clear what the queen represented. She obviously wasn't the last of her species, and as such, where did the other come from? Were they also just eggs, chilling on random planets for a few centuries, waiting to hatch? Or are there more, perhaps dwindling queens back in Rachni space? Whatever it was, it doesn't look like the Reapers really need that queen alive or not to make husks. The real question is "If we saved it, do they come fight for us?"

Rachni vs. Rachni husks would be fun.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

daftPirate wrote...

The queen choice was little weird because we saw in ME1 that there are Rachni elsewhere in the galaxy.

Those rachni came from the same queen on Noveria. They were subjects that Cerberus acquired from Peak 15.

Still there could be other Rachni out there. Hiding or whatever. Anyway, Shepard wasn't in the position to check that out when he had to make the call. My thought is letting her go could help getting things mended. Because if she would 'sing' of it to other Rachni they may respect the act of mercy and think of humans lower than they are.

[Bleachrude]

AlexXIV wrote...


Bhelen is an opportunist. He is doing what he thinks he benefits himself most, without thought of others. It may coincide with what you would call virtuous, but it is not his motivation to be.

Harrowmont may be wrong in a lot of things but he follows the laws and tradition. So he is an example in this regard. He is an honorable and integre person in general.

The thing in DA:O is that 'evil' decissions may play out well enough. You still get neither punished nor rewarded for the choices you make.

But how is "supporting laws and traditions" a paragon choice...I mean, the Draka is a highly ordered/caste society yet I doubt anyone would consider them to be a paragon choice to support (dodging Godwin's law hopefully..) It's not just the casteless he looks down upon but also the surface dwarfs as well...Indeed, he (Harrowmount) would fit very well into a dwarven version of the Terra Firma party...

That seems more like an lawful versus chaotic alignment choice you're espousing for paragon/renegade players...

[AlexXIV]

Bleachrude wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...


Bhelen is an opportunist. He is doing what he thinks he benefits himself most, without thought of others. It may coincide with what you would call virtuous, but it is not his motivation to be.

Harrowmont may be wrong in a lot of things but he follows the laws and tradition. So he is an example in this regard. He is an honorable and integre person in general.

The thing in DA:O is that 'evil' decissions may play out well enough. You still get neither punished nor rewarded for the choices you make.

But how is "supporting laws and traditions" a paragon choice...I mean, the Draka is a highly ordered/caste society yet I doubt anyone would consider them to be a paragon choice to support (dodging Godwin's law hopefully..) It's not just the casteless he looks down upon but also the surface dwarfs as well...Indeed, he (Harrowmount) would fit very well into a dwarven version of the Terra Firma party...

That seems more like an lawful versus chaotic alignment choice you're espousing for paragon/renegade players...

You're imposing your morale/ethic codex on others. Dwarven society is different. And probably for good reasons. Also I don't think Harrowmont looks down on anyone. He tries to uphold the law by following it. For example dwarves even have Paragons. They are examples they honor and follow. It is not so much about good or evil, it is how people regard them. Shepard is a human and as such human values and virtues apply to him. Harrowmont and Bhelen are dwarves. So dwarven values and virtues apply to them.

I guess if Bhelen, as a renegade, changes the society he himself becomes a paragon. In a new society with new virtues and values. I guess it takes a renegade to change the world, and it takes a paragon to preserve a world. So it is a relative term.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Still there could be other Rachni out there.

Yeah, sure kid, whatever. Maybe Santa Claus is out there too.

I would argue with you whether Rachni are more realistic to exist than Santa Claus but I don't really see this leading anywhere good.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I would argue with you whether Rachni are more realistic to exist than Santa Claus but I don't really see this leading anywhere good.

Point is this: there is no ****ing evidence for rachni hiding out anywhere else. For 2000 years there was nothing then somebody stumbled across a derelict rachni ship that had an egg on it.

That is where the queen came from. That is where the queen came from. That is where the rachni we fought in ME1 came from.

Is it possible there is another egg out there? Sure, but it's also possible there are Prothean stasis pods out there, and any number of other extinct species. ****ing anything is possible up to and including a fat human in a red suit.

So do you see the problem here? You can speculate limitlessly but your speculation isn't very productive or helpful when it is so broad.

"Maybe there are more rachni out there."

"Maybe this is all the Matrix."

"Maybe the Reapers are protecting us from an even worse enemy."

"Maybe I'm a retard but my parents paid everybody to play along so I wouldn't feel bad."

Your speculation is baseless. All indications are the rachni egg was a one of a kind find.

Really? I bet before they found the egg they were 100% sure the Rachni were all but wiped out. Because they were not seen anywhere in the galaxy for a long time, and then one egg is found and the best reasoning is 'Oh this must be the last one'? How is that any more valid than 'Oh they are probably not all extinct considering the size of the galaxy and the number of places to hide'. Damnit I wish I was a renegade. I could pull facts out of my ass and wouldn't have to bother speculating.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 25 décembre 2011 - 08:00 .

[Bleachrude]

But that's what I mean...

You're stating that Harrowmount is the paragon choice BECAUSE he follows the rules/traditions of a society but what if you don't agree with that society's rules because they are unjust?

(seriously, talk to Harrowmount about the casteless and he quite clearly thinks they deserve all the nastiness of what happens to them JUST because of who their same sex parent was)

As an aside, one runthrough I played an upstanding city elf and chose Bhelen because he saw beyond the caste system and Harrowmount would have seen nothing wrong in what Vaughn did to me...