146 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghar Thurion]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Engineer was unquestionably the worst class in Mass Effect as it was the only one without any form of defensive power. One random rocket to the face and you're dead. Since Immunity was even better than Barrier when it came to eating rockets for breakfast and Tech Mines were just as good for CC as Biotics if not better, I'd argue that Infiltrators were easily the best class in ME when properly spec'd. That might be up for argument but for anyone to claim another class besides Engineer was the worst in the game would be one heck of a stretch of the imagination.

In ME2 things I think it's up for debate which class is the "best" or "worst" if there even is one, but I'd put the Engineer up as the former this time around for sure. Combat Drone was gdlk.

Anyway, Adepts still don't appeal to me. Even Soldiers have surpassed them when it comes to anticipation levels for ME3. I will say Overpower and their heavy melee look pretty sweet though, so anyone who likes Adepts to begin with should be pretty hyped as far as I can tell.

I had no problems dodging shots and rockets. Though, i actually move around instead of standing waiting to get hit. I'm assuming thats what you did when you played engineer.

And i have no doubt that adept will prove to be great in ME 3 as well. I played ME 1 as adept (and all classes) and i kicked as, same in ME 2.

[adonfraz]

Malanek999 wrote...

Well weapon restrictions were part of the classes make up in ME2. I quite liked them, I'm nervous about the game getting a bit unbalanced without them. Comparing classes is fun, but they don't need to be balanced perfectly. The fact that some players like each different class the most proves they did a good job. Whatever works for each player is right.

I think if BioWare has the Vanguard and Infiltrator passives grant damage bonuses the shotgun and sniper rifle it would make up for having no weapon restrictions.

Modifié par adonfraz, 05 septembre 2011 - 10:46 .

[Soccer FeverMan]

adonfraz wrote...

Mand0l1n wrote...

Perhaps you can explain why you think adept is the weakest "objectively" cause all I'm hearing is opinion. Personally I think it all comes down individual preference and playstyle.

You're right, it is my opinion. I probably used the word "objective" out of context, but I still think you can be "objective" while giving your opinion. Being objective doesn't mean "Everything I say is a fact."

Well whatever, here's why I think the Adept is the weakest "subjectively" lol

"My problems with the ME2 Adept are as follows.

1) They are the worst class in the game (Hardcore/Insanity)

The three things I look at when ranking a class is killing speed, ease-of-use, and durability. With these factors the Adept is last in durability (Engineer's drone is more reliable than singularity), second the last in ease-of-use (Vanguard is a bit tougher for most), and second to last in killing speed (Engineer is slower).

2) Singularity is the worst class exculsive power.

On lower diffculties, you're better off just using pull field and on higher diffculties it's a worst version of the drone (fewer enemies are immune to the drone then singularity). In a dire situation, the other
five powers are just better.

3) They have to rely not just on squadmates more than other classes, they also rely on enemy positioning
more than any other class.

Adepts are just on par with other classes only under ideal circumstances. Those circumstances being:
multiple enemies grouped together and squadmates with the right powers. Adepts need to know more about the kind of enemy they are facing just to come close to other classes effectiveness.

If I'm using a class that is less durable than other classes and not easy to master, I want to be rewarded with greater killing speed when I play effectively. That's basically it."

HA! bluntly you suck at adept don't try to put your ineptitude ( is that a word, idk) on other people cuz i have none of those problewm in fact when im playing as adept i get pissed when miranda detonates my warp bombs.

[adonfraz]

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

adonfraz wrote...

Mand0l1n wrote...

Perhaps you can explain why you think adept is the weakest "objectively" cause all I'm hearing is opinion. Personally I think it all comes down individual preference and playstyle.

You're right, it is my opinion. I probably used the word "objective" out of context, but I still think you can be "objective" while giving your opinion. Being objective doesn't mean "Everything I say is a fact."

Well whatever, here's why I think the Adept is the weakest "subjectively" lol

"My problems with the ME2 Adept are as follows.

1) They are the worst class in the game (Hardcore/Insanity)

The three things I look at when ranking a class is killing speed, ease-of-use, and durability. With these factors the Adept is last in durability (Engineer's drone is more reliable than singularity), second the last in ease-of-use (Vanguard is a bit tougher for most), and second to last in killing speed (Engineer is slower).

2) Singularity is the worst class exculsive power.

On lower diffculties, you're better off just using pull field and on higher diffculties it's a worst version of the drone (fewer enemies are immune to the drone then singularity). In a dire situation, the other
five powers are just better.

3) They have to rely not just on squadmates more than other classes, they also rely on enemy positioning
more than any other class.

Adepts are just on par with other classes only under ideal circumstances. Those circumstances being:
multiple enemies grouped together and squadmates with the right powers. Adepts need to know more about the kind of enemy they are facing just to come close to other classes effectiveness.

If I'm using a class that is less durable than other classes and not easy to master, I want to be rewarded with greater killing speed when I play effectively. That's basically it."

HA! bluntly you suck at adept don't try to put your ineptitude ( is that a word, idk) on other people cuz i have none of those problewm in fact when im playing as adept i get pissed when miranda detonates my warp bombs.

So because I think the adept is the worst class in the game (Hardcore/Insanity), I must suck with it? Note that I didn't say the adept class sucks, I just think the other classes are better suited to handle higher diffculties.

EDIT: If you disagree with me and want to argue my viewpoint, that's fine. However, if you just want to attack me, you're just being a troll.

Modifié par adonfraz, 06 septembre 2011 - 12:31 .

[The Spamming Troll]

^ its unfortunate for people like me and you, trying to convey the fact we think that enemy protections are a ****ty way of challenging the adept. ive heard that response so many times before, "you just suck then!" ME2 is an extremely easy game. but that seems to be forgoten as soon as you start pointing something like this out out.

Mr.Pink wrote...

Biotics work no matter what. If their is a soldier with shields, hit him with singularity, and it will start to drain his shield about halfway, then hit him with a warp, and a few bullets, shield is gone in a few seconds, but that's just for ME2.

were all fully aware of singularitys capability of staggering ONE protected enemy, maybe two. ME2 singularity is barely better then ME1s bastion stasis. were also aware that warp bombs are awesome, which any class can create.

now what other options do you have for my so called master of biotics besides warpsploding singularities?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 06 septembre 2011 - 01:58 .

[No Snakes Alive]

Ghar Thurion wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Engineer was unquestionably the worst class in Mass Effect as it was the only one without any form of defensive power. One random rocket to the face and you're dead. Since Immunity was even better than Barrier when it came to eating rockets for breakfast and Tech Mines were just as good for CC as Biotics if not better, I'd argue that Infiltrators were easily the best class in ME when properly spec'd. That might be up for argument but for anyone to claim another class besides Engineer was the worst in the game would be one heck of a stretch of the imagination.

In ME2 things I think it's up for debate which class is the "best" or "worst" if there even is one, but I'd put the Engineer up as the former this time around for sure. Combat Drone was gdlk.

Anyway, Adepts still don't appeal to me. Even Soldiers have surpassed them when it comes to anticipation levels for ME3. I will say Overpower and their heavy melee look pretty sweet though, so anyone who likes Adepts to begin with should be pretty hyped as far as I can tell.

I had no problems dodging shots and rockets. Though, i actually move around instead of standing waiting to get hit. I'm assuming thats what you did when you played engineer.

And i have no doubt that adept will prove to be great in ME 3 as well. I played ME 1 as adept (and all classes) and i kicked as, same in ME 2.

Lollll yeah that argument makes sense. Good job. Having to constantly dodge rockets because even just one equals instant death when all the other classes can leisurely stroll through a steady stream of them to melee the rocket turret to death doesn't make Engineer the worst class in the game. What a compelling straw man argument you presented there, Mass Effect pro. Spot on assumption, too - I'll definitely have to try this "moving around" tactic you speak of.

I can't tell if this forum's being overrun by trolls or idiots any more.

[No Snakes Alive]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

^ its unfortunate for people like me and you, trying to convey the fact we think that enemy protections are a ****ty way of challenging the adept. ive heard that response so many times before, "you just suck then!" ME2 is an extremely easy game. but that seems to be forgoten as soon as you start pointing something like this out out.

Mr.Pink wrote...

Biotics work no matter what. If their is a soldier with shields, hit him with singularity, and it will start to drain his shield about halfway, then hit him with a warp, and a few bullets, shield is gone in a few seconds, but that's just for ME2.

were all fully aware of singularitys capability of staggering ONE protected enemy, maybe two. ME2 singularity is barely better then ME1s bastion stasis. were also aware that warp bombs are awesome, which any class can create.

now what other options do you have for my so called master of biotics besides warpsploding singularities?

I lol'd so hard when I read that crappy ol' ME2 Singularity is just barely better than the ME1 power that let you immobilize any enemy including the last boss while you shot them to death. What terrible powers, the both of them.

I wonder why the people who have no trouble dominating the game on Insanity with Adepts constantly assume that those who complain about Biotics sucking against protected enemies are not very good at the game. Such a bold conclusion to draw.

Vanguards and Soldiers had ONE way to remove protections (guns) and Infiltrators and Adepts had two (guns plus Incinerate and Warp - and guess which was better at it). So no, most people here don't tend to understand why some would complain about Adepts' options on Insanity.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 06 septembre 2011 - 02:20 .

[The Spamming Troll]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

^ its unfortunate for people like me and you, trying to convey the fact we think that enemy protections are a ****ty way of challenging the adept. ive heard that response so many times before, "you just suck then!" ME2 is an extremely easy game. but that seems to be forgoten as soon as you start pointing something like this out out.

Mr.Pink wrote...

Biotics work no matter what. If their is a soldier with shields, hit him with singularity, and it will start to drain his shield about halfway, then hit him with a warp, and a few bullets, shield is gone in a few seconds, but that's just for ME2.

were all fully aware of singularitys capability of staggering ONE protected enemy, maybe two. ME2 singularity is barely better then ME1s bastion stasis. were also aware that warp bombs are awesome, which any class can create.

now what other options do you have for my so called master of biotics besides warpsploding singularities?

I lol'd so hard when I read that crappy ol' ME2 Singularity is just barely better than the ME1 power that let you immobilize any enemy including the last boss while you shot them to death. What terrible powers, the both of them.

I wonder why the people who have no trouble dominating the game on Insanity with Adepts constantly assume that those who complain about Biotics sucking against protected enemies are not very good at the game. Such a bold conclusion to draw.

Vanguards and Soldiers had ONE way to remove protections (guns) and Infiltrators and Adepts had two (guns plus Incinerate and Warp - and guess which was better at it). So no, most people here don't tend to understand why some would complain about Adepts' options on Insanity.

are you trying to be sarcastic? bastion stasis worked on thresher maws, singularity would only hope to be so awesome. you can warpsplode singularites in ME2, but thats something we cant compare directly.

i dominate with adepts too! really, i blow the **** out of things with adepts. adepts are my favorite class by a wide margin. that doesnt mean the specific challenege enemy protections create for the adept are a good thing. it can be improved upon, and it currently is being done so for ME3.

soldiers have ammo powers for every defence, which youve conveniently forgotten. ammo powers are also a great way of CC too. there is also a HUGE difference comparing being an infiltrator with slow mo sniping to an adept with the shiruken.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 06 septembre 2011 - 03:50 .

[nocbl2]

Lol Adepts.

Not disrespecting (it's a hard class), but Sentintel + Mattock=raaaaaaaeeeeeiiipppp!

[No Snakes Alive]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

^ its unfortunate for people like me and you, trying to convey the fact we think that enemy protections are a ****ty way of challenging the adept. ive heard that response so many times before, "you just suck then!" ME2 is an extremely easy game. but that seems to be forgoten as soon as you start pointing something like this out out.

Mr.Pink wrote...

Biotics work no matter what. If their is a soldier with shields, hit him with singularity, and it will start to drain his shield about halfway, then hit him with a warp, and a few bullets, shield is gone in a few seconds, but that's just for ME2.

were all fully aware of singularitys capability of staggering ONE protected enemy, maybe two. ME2 singularity is barely better then ME1s bastion stasis. were also aware that warp bombs are awesome, which any class can create.

now what other options do you have for my so called master of biotics besides warpsploding singularities?

I lol'd so hard when I read that crappy ol' ME2 Singularity is just barely better than the ME1 power that let you immobilize any enemy including the last boss while you shot them to death. What terrible powers, the both of them.

I wonder why the people who have no trouble dominating the game on Insanity with Adepts constantly assume that those who complain about Biotics sucking against protected enemies are not very good at the game. Such a bold conclusion to draw.

Vanguards and Soldiers had ONE way to remove protections (guns) and Infiltrators and Adepts had two (guns plus Incinerate and Warp - and guess which was better at it). So no, most people here don't tend to understand why some would complain about Adepts' options on Insanity.

are you trying to be sarcastic? bastion stasis worked on thresher maws, singularity would only hope to be so awesome. you can warpsplode singularites in ME2, but thats something we cant compare directly.

i dominate with adepts too! really, i blow the **** out of things with adepts. that doesnt mean the specific challenege enemy protections create for the adept are a good thing. it can be improved upon, and it currently is being done so for ME3.

soldiers have ammo powers for every defence, which youve conveniently forgotten. ammo powers are also a great way of CC too. there is also a HUGE difference comparing being an infiltrator with slow mo sniping to an adept with the shiruken.

Pretty sure I didn't forget ammo powers. Did you maybe forget that they're only applicable to guns, which I mentioned is basically the Soldier's only means of removing protections? Yet more trouble connecting dots on your own?

Speaking of, I don't even know what point you're attempting to arrive at in that first paragraph. Yes, I was clearly being sarcastic towards you contradicting yourself hard in claiming that the power you're complaining about is only slightly better than one of the most OP powers ever to exist in the series.

Oh and I never once slow-mo sniped with my Infiltrator (talk about wanting a crutch - but you're not bad at the game, right?) so I'll ignore that irrelevant point and remind you that Adepts can use more than just the Shuriken too, which you seem to have conveniently forgotten. Or maybe you didn't make it far enough on your Adept playthrough? ((( Oh right no you blow the **** out of things with the Adept.

So how exactly are protections being improved upon for Adepts in ME3? Throw potentially having some effect on Armor? Lol?

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 06 septembre 2011 - 04:47 .

[The Spamming Troll]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Pretty sure I didn't forget ammo powers. Did you maybe forget that they're only applicable to guns, which I mentioned is basically the Soldier's only means of removing protections? Yet more trouble connecting dots on your own?

Speaking of, I don't even know what point you're attempting to arrive at in that first paragraph. Yes, I was clearly being sarcastic towards you contradicting yourself hard in claiming that the power you're complaining about is only slightly better than one of the most OP powers ever to exist in the series.

Oh and I never once slow-mo sniped with my Infiltrator (talk about wanting a crutch - but you're not bad at the game, right?) so I'll ignore that irrelevant point and remind you that Adepts can use more than just the Shuriken too, which you seem to have conveniently forgotten. Or maybe you didn't make it far enough on your Adept playthrough? ((( Oh right no you blow the **** out of things with the Adept.

So how exactly are protections being improved upon for Adepts in ME3? Throw potentially having some effect on Armor? Lol?

your very childish. is it impossible for you to try to have a decent conversation with someone?

the soldier is prolly the best at removing protections, having much better weapons and all the ammo powers to take out said protections. GPS/mattock/widow > locust/whatever, wouldnt you agree?

so bastion stasis is better then singularity? you agree with me? its hardto connect your dots, yes.

how can you not slow mo snipe with the infiltrator? every time you snipe, your in slow mo, so i dont get what your saying. adepts start the game with the predetor and the shiruken. infiltrators start with the same, and have a time dialating sniper rifle which synergizes with its abilities. one IS better then the other here.

theres an evolution of throw labeled "armor peircing throw" so yeah, ME3 is attempting to fix the problems that ive been talking about.

eesh, im not sure if this is worth my time anymore.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 06 septembre 2011 - 05:29 .

[Ahglock]

Mand0l1n wrote...

@adonfraz - thanks for taking the time to set out your objections. Ultimately though you are basing your arguments on how you have personally experienced the game. From my own perspective i've played all the classes at least twice (on insanity) and I've never found the adept to be one of the "weaker classes" for me. I guess we'll have to amicably disagree.

While being in the majority doesn't make it right his opinion seems to be in the majority on boards which is the only group I can draw from.  Usually there is a small group of experts gamers who either disagree or agree but don't think they are worse than the other classes by enough to make a difference.  But many of these are the people who head shot everything and could easily beat the game without using any powers or squadmates as an adept.  So the X class is fine doesn't seem to mean much to me from them.  But hey the engineer might actually be worse and just have a small enough fan base so their numbers are not really seen.  

Personally I do think adepts are the weakest class, but not by enough for me to really care.  It is easy to strip protections and I have a lot of fun playing the class.

 On the other hand I do agree with spamming in that it is a kind of crude and lazy way to balance the difficulty levels and the game would be better if difficulty scaled in a different way while leaving classes in a position where they continued to play like their class.  Somehow I think infiltrators would be upset if cloaking was seen through by all enemies who had their defenses still up, or you couldn't lock onto targets with a charge if shields were still up etc.  Those features are core elements to the class and are integral to how the class plays.  CC is the adepts integral element and while it is easy to overcome, blocking it is a ham handed way to balance the higher difficulties.  

I'd like all classes to have to be played differently due to different challenges presented by the higher difficulties, I just don't think the current defense system does that well.  Ideally IMO things like the AI should improve, more enemies would be on the map etc.  I don't know how much of that is possible given the current state of programming and hardware etc.  

Modifié par Ahglock, 06 septembre 2011 - 05:58 .

[Chuvvy]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Adept was the worst class in ME1?

So levitating entire battalions of enemies at once is a bad thing?

If you hate being awesome, yes.

[Reptillius]

Speaking of Infiltrator cloaking being seen through. It does happen at times. Not so much by the enemies but by the rockets they are firing... Because I was the closest target even after I cloaked and was moving. I took 2 rockets to the face just last night even after the enemies announced they lost me BEFORE they fired the rockets.

[Dariuszp]

Well, problem is that in ME 2 Biotic was OVERPOWERED. Every time I fought someone I was thinking - that's overkill.
Where is the problem ?

1. you ALWAYS should upgrade biotics with AOE (area of effect). For pull is to pull multiple oponents, for other is a big blast or something. Wide area of effect is BETTER than stronger hit.
2. You always aim for enemy with NO shield at all. You use cross class combo to BLAST him.
3. He will be dead and he will send flying everyone else. If you manage to do this with more than 1 opponent - well, you know.
4. There is always at least ONE enemy with no shielding.

So for the whole game, every fight was the same. Pull + blast == explode == loot of flying enemies. Because of that, endgame and scene in the collector ship was one of the easiest in the game.
Why ? Because you detonate one enemy and ALL OF THEM was thrown from the platform. So I just stand in the open and I just shoot that dam robot or something else.
In close spaces it was the same. Hit with blast take HP + when they hit the wall, they died or they almost died.

So if they upgrade biotic even more - we will have killing machine out there.

[Reptillius]

Slidell505 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Adept was the worst class in ME1?

So levitating entire battalions of enemies at once is a bad thing?

If you hate being awesome, yes.

On the highest difficulties there were things basically immune to most of biotics... Some of the krogan come to mind with their resistance and immunities to physics affects like being knocked down or lifted in the air.

[LucidStrike]

...Wait...Insanity was hard for Adepts? I didn't notice. It seemed pretty easy to me. =/

Only thing that really irritated me about playin' Adept on Hardcore and Insanity (Only difficulties I've ever played) was how impotent singularity seemed. Also, I quite enjoyed bein' able to Lift folks into the atmosphere to their deaths without firing a shot in ME1. I like my Adepts godly.

[Someone With Mass]

Dariuszp wrote...

4. There is always at least ONE enemy with no shielding.

Not on Insanity.

[Malice_Unarmed]

Adept was my favorite class in ME2.

I didn't have any issues playing Adept on insanity, just gotta chip away the armor and shields which doesn't take to long. Insanity is actually to easy, I went in the config and tweaked some setting that made me do less damage to make it more of a challenge. Also I have no arms so whoever had issues with insanity needs to step up their button pressing skills.

Modifié par Malice_Unarmed, 06 septembre 2011 - 07:10 .

[Dariuszp]

jreezy wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...

Well, problem is that in ME 2 Biotic was OVERPOWERED. Every time I fought someone I was thinking - that's overkill.

I disagree with that statement for the most part. The only time an Adept can possibly be overpowerd is on casual or whatever the name of the lowest difficulty is.

Nope. On higher difficoulty settings you just hit someone with pistol so he drop his shield and THEN you blast them all. Same with insanity.

Modifié par Dariuszp, 06 septembre 2011 - 07:11 .

[Someone With Mass]

Dariuszp wrote...

Nope. On higher difficoulty settings you just hit someone with pistol so he drop his shield and THEN you blast them all. Same with insanity.

That does not negate some biotic powers' uselessness.

Cryo Ammo/Blast is going to slow enemies down even if they have protection in ME3.

I'm sure they can do something similar for biotics.

[Dariuszp]

I could agree but then again - if you focus your fire on one enemy so he will drop shield and then blast him using combo, nothing will slow them down better Also flying enemies get more damage if they will hit a wall and it's take time for them to get up.
More to that - sometimes you have open space where they can just fall and die in an instant.

But there is also a problems. Sometimes they stuck in a place (it happen maybe 2 times) when you cannot hit them and you cannot end fight Whoever design maps knows that you cannot jump but he probably didn't know that flying enemies can reach places he didn't even dream about

@Someone With Mass, your signature is creepy You know it's a game right ?

Why it's overpowered ? Well blast affect everyone (that one from combo pull/singularity + wrap for example). Same thing with that power that create 10 blasts one after another.
That 10x blast power is good when you have enemies with no shield. If they have, you shot one of them, blast him and everyone are affected. It's like throwing granades. Because of that I constantly have Miranda and Jack with me. They could make that combo on their own I could do it with one of them.

So it was like combo after combo. Coldown is short so there was no problem. Because of that I played whole ME 2 only with 2 of them.

Modifié par Dariuszp, 06 septembre 2011 - 08:29 .

[Dariuszp]

Modifié par Dariuszp, 06 septembre 2011 - 08:26 .