146 réponses à ce sujet

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

Last Vizard wrote...

hahaha this it true however it really breaks the role play experience when your characters/allies abilities change from game to game while becoming weaker in all aspects.

You mean things changed into an action-game instead of an execution-game.

[Last Vizard]

Alocormin wrote...

Are they more... Adept now?

no they are less Adept at biotics.... damn headaches reduces strength of biotic fields and armour preventing biotics from working even though in ME 3 pull will now work hand held shields......

[Last Vizard]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

hahaha this it true however it really breaks the role play experience when your characters/allies abilities change from game to game while becoming weaker in all aspects.

You mean things changed into an action-game instead of an execution-game.

In RPGs you should eventually become OP against all but bosses, not be defeated by mercs on some random mission.... why not just pay them to save everyone if there stronger and better equiped than your character.

[MELTOR13]

Last Vizard wrote...

In RPGs you should eventually become OP against all but bosses, not be defeated by mercs on some random mission.... why not just pay them to save everyone if there stronger and better equiped than your character.

I dont know about you, but every merc that I've encountered gets slaughtered pretty easily in ME2, even on Insanity. They definitely aren't more powerful than Shep or his/her squadmates. 

[nutshell43]

Soruyao wrote...
Warp? Didn't need it. Squadmates using shield and armor breakers? Didn't need them. I even did a few missions with jacob and grunt sporting fire ammo just to prove that I didn't. :3 Stuff was dying about as fast as they ever did on my infiltrator run, and it was a blast all the way through.

I still think that 90% of the people complaining about adept being boring or weak were the people who didn't think for themselves and accepted the forum nonsense that spamming warp with every cd was the only proper way to play the game.

So basically you played adept like a soldier and it worked. Big surprise, no one doubts that you can shoot your way through the game.

The problem is that the optimal way to play adept is to spam warp with a throw thrown in now and then. You can do the same with a sentinel and get tech armor as an added bonus.
Of course you can have fun with an adept, but from a design standpoint the class is broken at higher difficulties because it is a subset of a different class.

[Last Vizard]

MELTOR13 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

In RPGs you should eventually become OP against all but bosses, not be defeated by mercs on some random mission.... why not just pay them to save everyone if there stronger and better equiped than your character.

I dont know about you, but every merc that I've encountered gets slaughtered pretty easily in ME2, even on Insanity. They definitely aren't more powerful than Shep or his/her squadmates. 

Yes i'm talking about insanity, did you finish the game without a single death? if so then your Shep has a better puppet master than my Shep.

[NICKjnp]

Actually ME 1 Adepts were the most over powered class. A top level bastion couldn't be stopped and could clear a room all by themselves. In ME2 the biotic combinations were fun but the adept was weakened quite a bit. It seems they took the criticism from the fans and made sure to let the adepts have a power like stasis. I love adepts but I prefer the ME1 adept to ME2...but I prefer the ME2 biotics to ME1.

[Last Vizard]

NICKjnp wrote...

Actually ME 1 Adepts were the most over powered class. A top level bastion couldn't be stopped and could clear a room all by themselves. In ME2 the biotic combinations were fun but the adept was weakened quite a bit. It seems they took the criticism from the fans and made sure to let the adepts have a power like stasis. I love adepts but I prefer the ME1 adept to ME2...but I prefer the ME2 biotics to ME1.

Good way to make an RPG journey of Weakness.... main character grows weaker and weaker while enemies grow stronger.

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

Last Vizard wrote...

In RPGs you should eventually become OP against all but bosses, not be defeated by mercs on some random mission.... why not just pay them to save everyone if there stronger and better equiped than your character.

When I play games I like to be challenged a little. Anything that hints towards god-mode makes things get old very fast.

Boss battles are usually the worst battles in games; In ME2 I prefer fighting groups of mercs over the Thresher Maw, Praetorian, and the Terminator any day.

And for me, RPG gameplay is about getting the most out of the my character's skills. Not to become god-like in the end.

[Last Vizard]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

In RPGs you should eventually become OP against all but bosses, not be defeated by mercs on some random mission.... why not just pay them to save everyone if there stronger and better equiped than your character.

When I play games I like to be challenged a little. Anything that hints towards god-mode makes things get old very fast.

Boss battles are usually the worst battles in games; In ME2 I prefer fighting groups of mercs over the Thresher Maw, Praetorian, and the Terminator any day.

And for me, RPG gameplay is about getting the most out of the my character's skills. Not to become god-like in the end.

I lean more in the direction of fallout 3/new vegas, the way you can make any build of character and play the game mulitple times trying different builds and working towards that builds perfect build.... the speech options are alot better in fallout rather than just ME 1 - 2 same sh!t different game when they spout continuity as being a big thing in ME universe.

[The Twilight God]

biotic boom wrote...

Think about it, in mass effect 1: Adept's had no weapon training and only had light armor. they had to rely on their biotic, but biotic were very basic and had very long cooldown times!
 Mass effect 2: biotic powers are much better, cooldowns are much shorter and also armor wasn't a big thing. And also their get an extra weapon on the colloctor ship!
 Mass effect 3: Adept's get to choose any two weapons they want (e.g: shotgun and sniper rifle) and plus most of the powers from mass effect 2 (i guess) plus more bioware will add in. And considering branching trees now allow you to upgrade a biotic power up to SIX times!!

so if you think about, ME: worse class, ME2: 3rd, 4th best, ME3: looks like the best!!!

At low levels everything had a long cooldown, not just biotics, so the argument that this is an adept weakness kind of cancels itself out.  Mid to end game an adept could practically spam biotics. It's is objectively the single most powerful class in the game. Furthermore, adepts received pistol training. No other weapon is necessary. Sentinels are the ones who don't fully train in a weapon (they get 1/2 pistol skills).

Flash foward to ME2 where there are slower cooldowns to start off, but any enemy with protection is practically immune and any enemy without isn't really worth the effort of using anything beyond a gun. IMO, ME2 trivialized biotics in favor of tech. Only warp felt generally useful. Stasis too if you have LotSB. 

Modifié par The Twilight God, 08 septembre 2011 - 01:53 .

[Soccer FeverMan]

adonfraz wrote...

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

adonfraz wrote...

Mand0l1n wrote...

Perhaps you can explain why you think adept is the weakest "objectively" cause all I'm hearing is opinion. Personally I think it all comes down individual preference and playstyle.

You're right, it is my opinion. I probably used the word "objective" out of context, but I still think you can be "objective" while giving your opinion. Being objective doesn't mean "Everything I say is a fact."

Well whatever, here's why I think the Adept is the weakest "subjectively" lol

"My problems with the ME2 Adept are as follows.

1) They are the worst class in the game (Hardcore/Insanity)

The three things I look at when ranking a class is killing speed, ease-of-use, and durability. With these factors the Adept is last in durability (Engineer's drone is more reliable than singularity), second the last in ease-of-use (Vanguard is a bit tougher for most), and second to last in killing speed (Engineer is slower).

2) Singularity is the worst class exculsive power.

On lower diffculties, you're better off just using pull field and on higher diffculties it's a worst version of the drone (fewer enemies are immune to the drone then singularity). In a dire situation, the other
five powers are just better.

3) They have to rely not just on squadmates more than other classes, they also rely on enemy positioning
more than any other class.

Adepts are just on par with other classes only under ideal circumstances. Those circumstances being:
multiple enemies grouped together and squadmates with the right powers. Adepts need to know more about the kind of enemy they are facing just to come close to other classes effectiveness.

If I'm using a class that is less durable than other classes and not easy to master, I want to be rewarded with greater killing speed when I play effectively. That's basically it."

HA! bluntly you suck at adept don't try to put your ineptitude ( is that a word, idk) on other people cuz i have none of those problewm in fact when im playing as adept i get pissed when miranda detonates my warp bombs.

So because I think the adept is the worst class in the game (Hardcore/Insanity), I must suck with it? Note that I didn't say the adept class sucks, I just think the other classes are better suited to handle higher diffculties.

EDIT: If you disagree with me and want to argue my viewpoint, that's fine. However, if you just want to attack me, you're just being a troll.

Why is everybody so sensitive on this site, what with everyone and the the "imma be more mature" but i digress

i don't think you realize theres nothing to argue like boatloads of people said it depends on you playing style ,but you seem to think it doesnt and just want to talk about the problems you have with it, and how it automatically makes the worst suited class. I feel the adept is better suited than the infiltrator and engineer on insanity for both progress and my fun level. but in the end it its a moot point cuz its MY OPINION just like yours is YOUR OPININON

[The Spamming Troll]

^its not that everyone is overly sensetive, its that most people are overly aggressive with their opinions. your certainly not being any help to your cause by calling people names.

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

In RPGs you should eventually become OP against all but bosses, not be defeated by mercs on some random mission.... why not just pay them to save everyone if there stronger and better equiped than your character.

When I play games I like to be challenged a little. Anything that hints towards god-mode makes things get old very fast.

Boss battles are usually the worst battles in games; In ME2 I prefer fighting groups of mercs over the Thresher Maw, Praetorian, and the Terminator any day.

And for me, RPG gameplay is about getting the most out of the my character's skills. Not to become god-like in the end.

which is almost an impossibility for the adept on higher difficulties. the adept would never be godlike untill singualrity is maxxed and you get your bonus weapon. untill that point your pretty much a walking pile of crappy abilities and crappy weapons.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 07 septembre 2011 - 11:35 .

[adonfraz]

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

adonfraz wrote...

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

adonfraz wrote...

Mand0l1n wrote...

Perhaps you can explain why you think adept is the weakest "objectively" cause all I'm hearing is opinion. Personally I think it all comes down individual preference and playstyle.

You're right, it is my opinion. I probably used the word "objective" out of context, but I still think you can be "objective" while giving your opinion. Being objective doesn't mean "Everything I say is a fact."

Well whatever, here's why I think the Adept is the weakest "subjectively" lol

"My problems with the ME2 Adept are as follows.

1) They are the worst class in the game (Hardcore/Insanity)

The three things I look at when ranking a class is killing speed, ease-of-use, and durability. With these factors the Adept is last in durability (Engineer's drone is more reliable than singularity), second the last in ease-of-use (Vanguard is a bit tougher for most), and second to last in killing speed (Engineer is slower).

2) Singularity is the worst class exculsive power.

On lower diffculties, you're better off just using pull field and on higher diffculties it's a worst version of the drone (fewer enemies are immune to the drone then singularity). In a dire situation, the other
five powers are just better.

3) They have to rely not just on squadmates more than other classes, they also rely on enemy positioning
more than any other class.

Adepts are just on par with other classes only under ideal circumstances. Those circumstances being:
multiple enemies grouped together and squadmates with the right powers. Adepts need to know more about the kind of enemy they are facing just to come close to other classes effectiveness.

If I'm using a class that is less durable than other classes and not easy to master, I want to be rewarded with greater killing speed when I play effectively. That's basically it."

HA! bluntly you suck at adept don't try to put your ineptitude ( is that a word, idk) on other people cuz i have none of those problewm in fact when im playing as adept i get pissed when miranda detonates my warp bombs.

So because I think the adept is the worst class in the game (Hardcore/Insanity), I must suck with it? Note that I didn't say the adept class sucks, I just think the other classes are better suited to handle higher diffculties.

EDIT: If you disagree with me and want to argue my viewpoint, that's fine. However, if you just want to attack me, you're just being a troll.

Why is everybody so sensitive on this site, what with everyone and the the "imma be more mature" but i digress

i don't think you realize theres nothing to argue like boatloads of people said it depends on you playing style ,but you seem to think it doesnt and just want to talk about the problems you have with it, and how it automatically makes the worst suited class. I feel the adept is better suited than the infiltrator and engineer on insanity for both progress and my fun level. but in the end it its a moot point cuz its MY OPINION just like yours is YOUR OPININON

"imma be more mature" and use proper grammar because I want to be taking somewhat seriously and not seen as a troll I guess. High Hopes I know.

Did you even read my post that you quoted? I said it was my opinion in the very first sentence. So if you want to excuse me of forcing my opinion on others, you've already lost that fight. I also acknowledged that different people are better with different classes than others earlier in this thread. Different classes have different tools/strengths and different people are better at taking advantage of them than others. The point I'm arguing is that "not all classes are equal in strength."

Ex. If a player is not great at shooting things then they might be better at using the Adept on Insanity then they would be at using the Soldier who relys entirely on shooting. It's an entirely possible situation.

My Argument

Just because a player is better at using the Adept's tools/strengths doesn't and shouldn't negate the Soldier's tools/strengths. I believe that ME2 as been out long enough and we've already seen practically everything each class is capable of. We should be able to say "class A's ability do these things outweighs class B's ability to do those things, therefore class A is better."

It depends on your playing style is true and works on an individual level but I was never trying to argue on the individual level. There's been many threads like this: "What's the best class for Insanity" where the TC doesn't mention their playstyle at all. The most popular answers are the Soldier and the Sentinel in large. A few Infiltrator recommendations, the Vanguard is VERY popular, so a couple of those though they'll warn the TC about its learning curve. The Engineer won't be mentioned much due it's small fanbase (nothing to due with the Engineer combat ability though) and the Adept might get mentioned once or twice. Can't take these responses and form a tier list from just that, but it's a start.

I'm just saying we could make a class tier list and it would be fairly accurate. Tiering would be pointless because this isn't a multiplayer game though.

tl;dr: Some classes are just plain better than others, IMO of course. :happy:

Modifié par adonfraz, 08 septembre 2011 - 03:11 .

[lazuli]

Eh, I suppose you could tier the classes, but I don't know how accurate it would be. And what would the criteria be? I'd say the Widow/Mattock Soldier can drop enemies the fastest, but the Vanguard is probably the best at clearing levels by exploiting the game (Charging past spawn points).

[adonfraz]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

^its not that everyone is overly sensetive, its that most people are overly aggressive with their opinions. your certainly not being any help to your cause by calling people names.

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

In RPGs you should eventually become OP against all but bosses, not be defeated by mercs on some random mission.... why not just pay them to save everyone if there stronger and better equiped than your character.

When I play games I like to be challenged a little. Anything that hints towards god-mode makes things get old very fast.

Boss battles are usually the worst battles in games; In ME2 I prefer fighting groups of mercs over the Thresher Maw, Praetorian, and the Terminator any day.

And for me, RPG gameplay is about getting the most out of the my character's skills. Not to become god-like in the end.

which is almost an impossibility for the adept on higher difficulties. the adept would never be godlike untill singualrity is maxxed and you get your bonus weapon. untill that point your pretty much a walking pile of crappy abilities and crappy weapons.

Was I over aggressive with my opinion?

I want people to respond and disagree or agree, whatever, but with a coherent thought (unlike Soccerdude?) and they actually read most of your post. I didn't write that last wall of text to just stay there and look all wally of texty.

[No Snakes Alive]

NICKjnp wrote...

Actually ME 1 Adepts were the most over powered class. A top level bastion couldn't be stopped and could clear a room all by themselves. In ME2 the biotic combinations were fun but the adept was weakened quite a bit. It seems they took the criticism from the fans and made sure to let the adepts have a power like stasis. I love adepts but I prefer the ME1 adept to ME2...but I prefer the ME2 biotics to ME1.

Once again not true. It's subjective, fist of all, so I don't get why everyone is so matter of fact about it when they claim Adepts were the most OP class in ME.

First of all it's extremely arguable that a gold standard spec'd Vanguard was even better because you give up Bastion Stasis (admittedly awesome and OP) for the ability to reset your powers (also awesome and OP) AND better defense. Second of all, a gold standard Infiltrator with AI hacking (and just pistol; ignore sniper) had the best weapon in the game, permanent invincibility, and better CC than the Biotic classes because enemies who stand there doing nothing are even easier to kill than enemies who float around all over the place doing nothing.

Almost every class could clear rooms solo with ease in ME so I guess it's up for debate which is the "best" but it always makes me laugh when people are so matter-of-fact about Adepts being the clear winner when they're probably more like middle of the pack.

[adonfraz]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

Actually ME 1 Adepts were the most over powered class. A top level bastion couldn't be stopped and could clear a room all by themselves. In ME2 the biotic combinations were fun but the adept was weakened quite a bit. It seems they took the criticism from the fans and made sure to let the adepts have a power like stasis. I love adepts but I prefer the ME1 adept to ME2...but I prefer the ME2 biotics to ME1.

Once again not true. It's subjective, fist of all, so I don't get why everyone is so matter of fact about it when they claim Adepts were the most OP class in ME.

First of all it's extremely arguable that a gold standard spec'd Vanguard was even better because you give up Bastion Stasis (admittedly awesome and OP) for the ability to reset your powers (also awesome and OP) AND better defense. Second of all, a gold standard Infiltrator with AI hacking (and just pistol; ignore sniper) had the best weapon in the game, permanent invincibility, and better CC than the Biotic classes because enemies who stand there doing nothing are even easier to kill than enemies who float around all over the place doing nothing.

Almost every class could clear rooms solo with ease in ME so I guess it's up for debate which is the "best" but it always makes me laugh when people are so matter-of-fact about Adepts being the clear winner when they're probably more like middle of the pack.

I used a Bastion Adept in ME1 and couldn't picture a class being better, but you showed some classes are better. Biotic classes were more popular than Tech classes. I think that even if someone ran as an Infiltrator they probably just spammed Immunity and didn't use Tech powers, or they spammed Immunity and used Tech powers but since they used Immunity they didn't care/notice enemies not doing anything.

Making people float is harder to miss.

[Taritu]

Adepts were godlike in ME1. In ME2 they were much weaker, especially on hardcore and above.

[Gromnir]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

<truncated>

Once again not true. It's subjective, fist of all, so I don't get why everyone is so matter of fact about it when they claim Adepts were the most OP class in ME.

First of all it's extremely arguable that a gold standard spec'd Vanguard was even better because you give up Bastion Stasis (admittedly awesome and OP) for the ability to reset your powers (also awesome and OP) AND better defense. Second of all, a gold standard Infiltrator with AI hacking (and just pistol; ignore sniper) had the best weapon in the game, permanent invincibility, and better CC than the Biotic classes because enemies who stand there doing nothing are even easier to kill than enemies who float around all over the place doing nothing.

Almost every class could clear rooms solo with ease in ME so I guess it's up for debate which is the "best" but it always makes me laugh when people are so matter-of-fact about Adepts being the clear winner when they're probably more like middle of the pack.

Agreed, I considered a properly spec'd Vanguard better than the Adept.  There were specific situations where bastion stasis was better, but lift and singularity (extra spammable with adrenaline burst) usually yielded the same result...a helpless punching bag.  Maxxed out lift is powerful enough to work on a colossus and has the benefit of being AoE.  Vanguards also got medium armor and extra spamming of defensive skills and marksmanship.  I ignored the shotty.

Modifié par Gromnir, 08 septembre 2011 - 05:00 .

[The Spamming Troll]

adonfraz wrote...

Was I over aggressive with my opinion?

nope not at all. just pointing it out to soccerdude why someone would be so defensive about being aggresivley attacked. kindof like some of No Snakes posts.

Gromnir wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

<truncated>

Once
again not true. It's subjective, fist of all, so I don't get why
everyone is so matter of fact about it when they claim Adepts were the
most OP class in ME.

First of all it's extremely arguable that a
gold standard spec'd Vanguard was even better because you give up
Bastion Stasis (admittedly awesome and OP) for the ability to reset your
powers (also awesome and OP) AND better defense. Second of all, a gold
standard Infiltrator with AI hacking (and just pistol; ignore sniper)
had the best weapon in the game, permanent invincibility, and better CC
than the Biotic classes because enemies who stand there doing nothing
are even easier to kill than enemies who float around all over the place
doing nothing.

Almost every class could clear rooms solo with
ease in ME so I guess it's up for debate which is the "best" but it
always makes me laugh when people are so matter-of-fact about Adepts
being the clear winner when they're probably more like middle of the
pack.

Agreed, I considered a properly spec'd Vanguard
better than the Adept.  There were specific situations where bastion
stasis was better, but lift and singularity (extra spammable with
adrenaline burst) usually yielded the same result...a helpless punching
bag.  Maxxed out lift is powerful enough to work on a colossus and has
the benefit of being AoE.  Vanguards also got medium armor and extra
spamming of defensive skills and marksmanship.  I ignored the shotty.

technically the soldier had the best pistol in the game. its a toss up between the infiltrator and the vanguard on whose second. the infiltrator had more heat dissipation, while the vanguard put out a little more damage. but i agree the vanguard very much trumped the adept in terms of being a biotic powerhouse. better pistol, better D, nemesis lift(most adepts were bastion so they didnt take nemesis), the potential of dual singularites, damping didint put AR on cooldown so if you got damped you just hit AR, and your never out of the fight ith your biotics(extremely handy when the game actually used enemy engineers, like in BDtS). my all time favorite biotic is a glass cannon vanguard with zero points in armor, and 1 point in barrier with everything else in biotics and even spectre training, which is a waste beyond 4 points, but it did allow for perma marksman.

makes me feel a little nostalgic thinking about it actually.

[adonfraz]

......bump