297 réponses à ce sujet

[Moonshadow_Dark]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

7 f***ing pages.........

I know. And the last two have been arguing about "forced canon" which has no real impact on the storyline what so ever.


Are we really this bored?

[essarr71]

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

7 f***ing pages.........

I know. And the last two have been arguing about "forced canon" which has no real impact on the storyline what so ever.


Are we really this bored?

Nah.. these forums are just caught in a loop.  We'll still be having the same conversations until march.  I might just start keeping some default responses ready to be copy/pasted.  Would save so much time.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

essarr71 wrote...

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

7 f***ing pages.........

I know. And the last two have been arguing about "forced canon" which has no real impact on the storyline what so ever.


Are we really this bored?

Nah.. these forums are just caught in a loop.  We'll still be having the same conversations until march.  I might just start keeping some default responses ready to be copy/pasted.  Would save so much time.

Collector base,P vs R, Femshep being female, what do we want,what do we fear,how will we win, etc.

They do end up being the same conversations with the same points being brought up... I disapprove.

[alperez]

littlezack

I know bioware will show the events in some way, and that most people will know about and perhaps have already seen what happens in arrival, that's not what i'm complaining about at all.

Its the fact that unlike other dlc's the events that happen in arrival are canon, shepard must do what shepard must do, this position is forced upon you the player.

You start me3, if you've bought arrival your fine, if not you find that your shepard has caused the deaths of 300'000 batarians to stop the reapers arrival and is on trial, all fine and dandy.

Now a new player has to face the restrictions of coming into the series when they do.

Someone who's played through me1 and me2 but not arrival though is given a cutscene or explanation that while they were away, their shepard killed 300'000 batarians to stop the reapers arrival.

While technically not forcing that player to buy the dlc, they are in fact pressurising that player to do so, imo that's just one small step away from forcing a dlc to be integral to the game itself.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

alperez wrote...

While technically not forcing that player to buy the dlc, they are in fact pressurising that player to do so, imo that's just one small step away from forcing a dlc to be integral to the game itself.

But the point of them making it happen regardless just means you don't have to buy it...

[essarr71]

alperez wrote...

Its the fact that unlike other dlc's the events that happen in arrival are canon, shepard must do what shepard must do, this position is forced upon you the player.

LotSB is canon and you can't effect the outcome.  At least you could "lose" Arrival.  It has that over LotSB.

Fact is, Bioware announced LONG before their release that'd theyd have bridging DLC.  It's not like they pulled a fast one.

[RocketManSR2]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

The point of this thread is?

"This thread has no point. They are wasting your time Councilors, and mine."

[littlezack]

alperez wrote...

Now a new player has to face the restrictions of coming into the series when they do.

You know, I've been trying to place what exactly about your argument rings hollow to me, and I just realized it.

If you're on old player, you know about Arrival, and it's no surprise to you.

If you're a new player, there's already a ton of things in ME1 and ME2 that you won't have control over. Arrival is just the most recent of them.

[alperez]

essarr71 wrote...


Execpt it does exist and you can play it.  If you chose not to play content DLC, I fail to see why you can complain you haven't participated in the content.  At the end of the day, your arguement is "I want this for free" - which has been debated to death.

I bought the dlc, so no my argument is not that dlc should be free.

My argument is however when dlc becomes integral or story canon then it should be, the other dlc's can occur without shepard's involvement, they are in essence bonus content for those of us who wish to buy them.

Arrival happens only because of Shepard's involvement, if shepard doesn't get involved its basically a game over screen, so while LOSB can occur and Shepard can help Liara be the SB in my game (if i choose to buy the dlc) if i don't then Liara can still become the SB without Shepard being involved.

Arrival doesn't give an option B, it happens shepard does what shepard does, its story canon, if i don't buy it then it still assumes i have and the story continues from that point forward.

Now no one forces me to buy Arrival, but by not buying it the main character i play has an even forced upon him/her. which is a small step from making it a forced purchase imo.

[Moonshadow_Dark]

alperez wrote...

littlezack

I know bioware will show the events in some way, and that most people will know about and perhaps have already seen what happens in arrival, that's not what i'm complaining about at all.

Its the fact that unlike other dlc's the events that happen in arrival are canon, shepard must do what shepard must do, this position is forced upon you the player.

You start me3, if you've bought arrival your fine, if not you find that your shepard has caused the deaths of 300'000 batarians to stop the reapers arrival and is on trial, all fine and dandy.

Now a new player has to face the restrictions of coming into the series when they do.

Someone who's played through me1 and me2 but not arrival though is given a cutscene or explanation that while they were away, their shepard killed 300'000 batarians to stop the reapers arrival.

While technically not forcing that player to buy the dlc, they are in fact pressurising that player to do so, imo that's just one small step away from forcing a dlc to be integral to the game itself.

They're not pressuring anyone. It's a $10 TWO SECOND NOD. Your Shepard will be fine without it. A New player will simple choose between "I tried my best to warn them" or "Eff them".  There is no restriction. It's just a set up for being on Earth. Why do you continue this discussion? I feel like you are actually doing this to troll us, but I'm giving you the benefit. It doesn't matter. The Reapers invade during the trial anyway. The Battarians were dead anyway. You could not save them. The ONLY thing you will hear about this in the game will be when your lawyer asks "Did you try to warn them?" which sets up that outcome and a email in your terminal from a angry Battarian cussing you out or saying thanks for trying. That. Is it.

[alperez]

essarr71 wrote...


LotSB is canon and you can't effect the outcome.  At least you could "lose" Arrival.  It has that over LotSB.

Fact is, Bioware announced LONG before their release that'd theyd have bridging DLC.  It's not like they pulled a fast one.

Which part of LOSB is canon, shepard helping liara become the SB or Liara becoming the sb?

If its the first one then its the same as arrival, if its the second its completely different.

[littlezack]

alperez wrote...

essarr71 wrote...


Execpt it does exist and you can play it.  If you chose not to play content DLC, I fail to see why you can complain you haven't participated in the content.  At the end of the day, your arguement is "I want this for free" - which has been debated to death.

Now no one forces me to buy Arrival, but by not buying it the main character i play has an even forced upon him/her. which is a small step from making it a forced purchase imo.

The event is forced on you either way. I guess what you're trying to say is that people who don't know about Arrival will be confused, but A - most people at least know about Arrival and B - they'll probably recap at length. The only thing you'll miss is playing through Arrival firsthand, and while I was okay with the DLC, even I'll admit you're not missing terribly much.

[littlezack]

alperez wrote...

essarr71 wrote...


LotSB is canon and you can't effect the outcome.  At least you could "lose" Arrival.  It has that over LotSB.

Fact is, Bioware announced LONG before their release that'd theyd have bridging DLC.  It's not like they pulled a fast one.

Which part of LOSB is canon, shepard helping liara become the SB or Liara becoming the sb?

Both.

[didymos1120]

alperez wrote...

Your forcing people to accept that events will happen outside of the main game that affect your main characters experiences inside the main game, what i tried to use in my context was an extreme example of what that is like.

Yeah, and?  This isn't the first time.  Your Shepard just went along with the Council's geth mop-up notion.  You had no say in it, and that got Shep killed.  You had no say in Liara recovering Shep's body and handing it over to Cerberus, who brought you back to life, which event, in part, the devs used to push Shep into working with them.  You had no say over what various people got up to in the two years Shep was dead, and that affected your experiences in the game: the Council's ostrich routine, Liara's discomfort over seeing you alive after giving you to Cerberus, etc. 

[alperez]

littlezack wrote...


You know, I've been trying to place what exactly about your argument rings hollow to me, and I just realized it.

If you're on old player, you know about Arrival, and it's no surprise to you.

If you're a new player, there's already a ton of things in ME1 and ME2 that you won't have control over. Arrival is just the most recent of them.

Knowing about it doesn't mean you have to have played it, the surprise factor isn't the problem.

I'm not suggesting that someone will start me3 and then go what the hell, shepard destroyed a mass relay, but once you start putting things in dlc's that specifically affect the main character and are storyline canon then those dlc's are changing the goalposts.

Every other dlc can happen without shepards participation, arrival cannot, in order for the start point of me3 to be the same for all of us arrival has to have taken place, since this is in a dlc and not the main game it becomes a different proposition.

[Swords and Lasers]

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...




... When did $10 become such a hassle to get?...

Since 2008.

[Robhuzz]

alperez wrote...

essarr71 wrote...


LotSB is canon and you can't effect the outcome.  At least you could "lose" Arrival.  It has that over LotSB.

Fact is, Bioware announced LONG before their release that'd theyd have bridging DLC.  It's not like they pulled a fast one.

Which part of LOSB is canon, shepard helping liara become the SB or Liara becoming the sb?

If its the first one then its the same as arrival, if its the second its completely different.

Ali Hillis (the one who voices Liara) said earlier that she recorded some special dialogue for ME3 for those who didn't play Lotsb. This leads to the assumption that if you don't do Lotsb (can't see why since it's the best part of the game), Liara somehow manages to beat the original Shadow Broker by herself, or by hiring someone else to help of course. So no, if you don't do Lotsb, the game does not simply assume you did it offscreen anyway.

ETA: Of course this 'special dialogue' could also be an introduction on Lotsb for those who did not play it. In it, Liara and Shepard would reflect on the events from that DLC so new players get a sense of what happened. This sounds way more logical than Liara somehow taking out the SB on her own.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 06 septembre 2011 - 07:00 .

[Stompi]

Important DLC within the story: Should have been in the game, was cut on purpose!
Non-Story DLC: Did I just waste my money on content we don't need?
DLC that isn't recognised in the next game at all: So, why did we waste our money?
DLC as bridge between two games: Ok, maybe it is important and mabe it was not cut from the game, but it still costs money!
Addon as bridge between two games: Great, additional content!

Can't you all just copy & paste: DLC bad.
Would save you a lot of time.

[ODST 3]

I've got no problem with DLC, I do have a problem with DLC that's as hideous as Arrival though.

[Moonshadow_Dark]

Swords and Lasers wrote...

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...




... When did $10 become such a hassle to get?...

Since 2008.

Ha!

Well apparently Alperz has decided to ignore everyone else's posts about how Arrival doesn't matter. So I'm going to guess s/he is only here to argue. I'd advise everyone to stop, but hey, it's your account and I ain't your parental figure/significant other/pet Varren so do whatever you want.

I will say this: OP made this thread with the intent to make mountains out of molehills and we have continued to make his thread even bigger. We made a moon out of a mountain out of a molehill. I'd wish the mods to please shut the thread down and/or everyone to just leave and let it fade into the Omega Forum Relay of page 3 and never hear from it again.

[essarr71]

alperez wrote...

Knowing about it doesn't mean you have to have played it, the surprise factor isn't the problem.

I'm not suggesting that someone will start me3 and then go what the hell, shepard destroyed a mass relay, but once you start putting things in dlc's that specifically affect the main character and are storyline canon then those dlc's are changing the goalposts.

Every other dlc can happen without shepards participation, arrival cannot, in order for the start point of me3 to be the same for all of us arrival has to have taken place, since this is in a dlc and not the main game it becomes a different proposition.

It's been brought up a few times already, but you seem to keep dodging it.  These events happen, no matter what.  Just like what goes on beyond your input between ME1-ME2.  So, my question to you is, if you have no option over the event, is it better to NOT have the OPTION of playing thru it or having additional OPTIONAL content to play between games to see how these events unfolded?

Yes, its canon.  No, you have no control over "your" shepard.  Yes, there is no choice.  The only goalpost changing thats going on here is that you can actually play what goes on between games this time.  Soooo  what's the big issue here?

[Chewin]

Still, people who played Arrival will get some additional dialogs.