57 réponses à ce sujet

[Simpson3k]

Most gameworlds in nwn have very huge lists of available emoteanimations like lapsit, dance and the like and i was wondering how those animations where put into the game. What application is best to create the animations and how to add them to the game so that every character can perform them? For the beginning was planning rather easy things like an alternative "lay on the back" wich isnt taken from the deathanimation (the position is kinda creepy with the half broken neck). But even thought about a "lay on the bench" animation..wich simply let the char hover in a layposition in the air so that it can be moved on top of benches.

Has somebody experiences with this kind of stuff and can give me some advices and directions, perhaps?

Thank you in advance.

[Bannor Bloodfist]

This is a very complicated task.

It requires you to fully understand how to use Gmax/3dsmax.

You have to edit multiple .mdl files and place them into either a hak or your override folder.

As to what mdl files need to be edited, you have to decide what races you wish to screw around with, then edit both male and female versions of same.

If you search for Ragnarok_MR4's alternate combat pack you will find one set, and if you search for Ninjaweasel Intimate animation hak you will find a futher set. This extra set likely includes the animations that you mention above and various others as well.

It will require you to do some reverse engineering though, you would have to look at the animation mdls and the tlk file to see how the animations get added into the game.

FEW folks have taken up the challenge of full animations as it is quite detailed work and the game requires you to create new tlk entries etc, so that you can call your animations via script or dialog entries AND because you have to edit sooooo many mdl files to make it all work for the various races, male and female.

[Estelindis]

Another great set of custom animations is Additional Animations by Vaéi. Comes with a demo module, as I recall, which should help you to understand how to implement the animations in your module.

I second Bannor's comments, by the way. Character animations are difficult and, as a general rule, only the most expert and experienced custom content makers have mastered the full range of abilities needed to make good new ones.

[Simpson3k]

So its nothing to get into by doing it, learning by doing, no? *sighs* well better know it from the start than to find out after spending ages for impossible stuff^^

Thanks for the fast answers

[Estelindis]

"Learning by doing" is a great NWN philosophy in general, and I wouldn't want to discourage you. In this case, it would take quite a lot of doing to learn the necessary skills. It's not something you could do very quickly. On the other hand, once you'd learned it, you'd be able to do lots of other things as well as animations. It's up to you. ;-)

[Bannor Bloodfist]

I would love to see new folks get involved with Animations, but I can completely understand why most folks don't stick to it long enough to create much custom content in that particular arena.

It is a large amount of work, even for skilled folks, and for new folks, just learning how to edit a given mdl file in 3dsmax can be overwhelming.

It CAN be done, it HAS been done by folks in the past, but it takes a strong willed person that really doesn't mind spending the time needed to make it all work.

NWN gave us a huge amount of power for allowing custom content in general. Up to and including creating/using new animations, but creating that custom content does require a bit a time and the attitude that you can take a few knocks on the head before accomplishing something really useful.

But a quick, 2 or 3 step click here, click there, type of process does not exist for animations.

[Master Jax]

Most of us start easy on the NWN customization madness. Why, I remember when "Modding" to me was creating portraits for the game out of any image I could pilfer! (My poor portraits folder still suffers from such a wondrous awakening of my modding skills!)

You should start with something a little easier, and make your way to the top. If you're already an intermediate modder (say, you have created/edited geometry of models) then I would encourage you to go deep, and explore the animation fringes! Mystra knows we need a new Ragnarok_MR4 to take the former's place! (Deserter...)

[Simpson3k]

All right i got an animation tool and started to work with it but..what would be usefull..would be an animation file for 3ds max before it is compiled into nwn, so that i do know my goal. I mean i could open it in the tool and examine it.

[Rolo Kipp]

<chortles with Glee...>

Estelindis wrote...
Another great set of custom animations is Additional Animations by Vaéi. Comes with a demo module, as I recall, which should help you to understand how to implement the animations in your module.
...

Oh!
My!
GOODIES!

TY :-)

<...though Glee is not amused>

[Rolo Kipp]

<trying to be helpful...>

Simpson3k wrote...

All right i got an animation tool and started to work with it but..what would be usefull..would be an animation file for 3ds max before it is compiled into nwn, so that i do know my goal. I mean i could open it in the tool and examine it.

I do highly recommend reading the tutorials on the CTP forums.

They are focused and informative, if not comprehensive.  At any rate, they are a great place to start.

Which tool did you choose?

<...while casing the joint>

[WebShaman]

Rolo Kipp wrote...

<chortles with Glee...>

Estelindis wrote...
Another great set of custom animations is Additional Animations by Vaéi. Comes with a demo module, as I recall, which should help you to understand how to implement the animations in your module.
...

Oh!
My!
GOODIES!

TY :-)

<...though Glee is not amused>

And this, folks, is why we mourn the loss of the Legacy forums.

So much information...knowledge.  Links, ideas, building on each other's works.

*sigh*

I truly hope we get it back.

[Simpson3k]

Doing a good progress in learning how to use Autodesk 3ds Max, but how am i supposed to open those mdl files in 3ds Max? do i need a plugin for the animationeditor or something like that?

That may sound noobish but i cant open the mdl files with 3ds Max. Do i have to convert them into the max fileformat first?

I wouldnt mind to work through every of those thousands tutorials of the program but if i knew how my goal looks like (a finished, working mdl file) i would have an idea what needs to be done.

[Rolo Kipp]

 <passing...>

Definitely get NwMax scripts for 3DS Max. Be sure to install them in the right places.


You should also get Veltools.


<...the buck>

[OldTimeRadio]

Simpson3k wrote...
...but how am i supposed to open those mdl files in 3ds Max? do i need a plugin for the animationeditor or something like that?

If you have NWMax installed correctly, when you load up Max, NWMax will load up as well.  You load up NWN models in Max not by using the open or import menu items but by going to the NWMax rollout and looking for "NWN MDL Loader".  Click to expand that.  Basically, all you really have to do is click the "Browse" button in there, browse to your NWN MDL and after you've selected it, click the "Import" button a little ways below.  There are some other options which you'lll find use for later, like whether or not to load animations as well as geometry, but those will become more apparent/useful as you progress.

To save a model, it must have an AuroraBase.  If you've imported a NWN model the AuroraBase will already be present.  If not, you can create one by going to the Helpers tab on the Create menu (all of this is on the right side of your screen by default).  Helpers is the icon just to the right of the little camera icon.  When you click on it and then click somewhere in your perspective view you'll see that one of the types of helpers you can create is an AuroraBase.  When you click that another menu will come up asking you for some options.  For a basic test model all you really need to do is have a good name (I use plc_a01 because it's an easy name to remember and anything saved with that name will override the "armoire" placeable) and make sure the AuroraBase is at 0,0,0.  You can put a check next to "Create to [0,0,0]", fill in "plc_a01" (without quotes) and hit "OK".  Bam!  You've got an AuroraBase.

I really nice, simple, exercise would be to just practice a few times making an AuroraBase which overrwrites some existing bit of content, creating a box, right clicking on it and converting it to editable mesh, maybe dragging your favorite 256x256 or 512x512 texture on the box from your override directory, selecting and linking the box to the AuroraBase and then selecting the AuroraBase so you can export it.  Be sure to make sure it has the correct path for your override dir.  You can choose to export just the mesh or the mesh and its animations.  I don't think I do any importing but this tutorial (which is for GMax but should work perfectly for Max) gives you a basic idea of some of the fun stuff that you can do with little work and also shows the exporting process.

When I was first starting out I just had no bloomin' idea where to begin.  There were so many damned buttons.  Buttons and dials and all sorts of crap, everywhere! But really, once you get the hang of it, you use precious little in Max to do your NWN editing.  It's actually kind of merciful that way because even GMax just freaking goes on and on with the buttons and settings.

That may sound noobish but i cant open the mdl files with 3ds Max. Do i have to convert them into the max fileformat first?

Thankfully, NWN 3D modeling for the most part is just dealing with simple editable meshes.  You don't have to convert them into any kind of Max "format", just be able to load and save them like I talk about, above.  While you're working on your model, its recommended to save your model in Max and you just do that like saving any other scene.  It is best to do things like this (as opposed to exporting and importing via NWMax again and again) because with each export into NWN MDL format, little (really little) errors get introduced.  Theoretically, they do stac u with the more imports and exports you do on the same model.  So after an initial import into Max via NWMax, I save my progress in max fies and export to the NWN MDL format only when I'm done.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 14 septembre 2011 - 08:58 .

[Simpson3k]

Thank you very much Rolo for those two links, looks like i installed them correctly And thanks to you OldTimeRadio for that increadible detailed explaining

Propably the first forumposting ever i copy-pasted into a txt file as a whole lol ^^

I am really glad i decided to ask for help here, was more than worth the try ^^

[Bannor Bloodfist]

One other VERY important setting for 3dsmax is the "Units".

Go to your main 3dsmax menus, and find the "Customize" menu, from the drop down, choose units.

EVERYTHING in NWN is done in Centimeters, so set the Units to Metric, and the unit size to centimeters. Otherwise, when you export things, you will get serious rounding errors (they still occur, but going from US to Metric on export really screws things up).

There are other preferences to adjust, but the next most important is to "Configure User Paths".

Here you want to "ADD" whatever folders you are using for your main working directory. Just click the Add button on both the File I/O And on the External Files rollouts. Add whatever folders you need to those, and it is typically best if you move them to the top of the list. (There are buttons there to help with that).

By setting those two folder options, you are telling 3dsmax to search whatever folders you added to find things like textures, or other objects it may need for specific things. Typically it is the textures you are concerned with.

3dsmax does not recognize the .DDS format typically released with mdl files here, and on the vault. It only recognizes the .TGA file type (or .bmp, but NWN requires the TGA).

There are tools available to help convert From DDS to TGA, just don't go backwards: Meaning, don't convert a DDS to TGA, then back again to DDS as it causes severe data loss on the Texture.

There are some tutorials on various bits of this located on the CTP Custom Content forums, which you joined earlier today.

[Rolo Kipp]

<looks very...>

Hey! Welcome aboard :-)

And thanks, BB, for the DDS info. Didn't know the conversion was so lossy. Guess I'll do my textures like I do my models, eh? Master copy flows downstream, but not up.

Works for me, since I work in Gimp and keep the master in xcf format to store all my layers & channels & stuff. So my typical texture work is to adjust something in the .xcf, then, if I like the change, export it as an uncompressed .tga. Eventually, those uncompressed tgas will be compressed in dds.

<...pleased>

[OldTimeRadio]

Rolo Kipp wrote...
Master copy flows downstream, but not up.

Yep, that's the best way to do it.  Or, at least keep it as low as you possibly can.  I'm sure there are other things at play but I uncovered some harsh rounding that happens in NWMax on export.  If you go to this thread and search for "And I think I just realized" you can read more about what I found and how to "correct" it.  You might want to consider making the changes I talk about there- it would definitely help the situation though not totally, I'm sure.  BioWare models are rounded down to 5-6 decimal places whereas NWMax rounds them down to 3-4, or something like that.  So you buy a little wiggle room.  Your mileage may vary, but for fine positioning involving nodes or vertices, it seems to be worth looking into.

Works for me, since I work in Gimp and keep the master in xcf format to store all my layers & channels & stuff. So my typical texture work is to adjust something in the .xcf, then, if I like the change, export it as an uncompressed .tga. Eventually, those uncompressed tgas will be compressed in dds.

LOL, I use the exact same workflow.  Sometimes my layers get out of control but Gimp doesn't seem to mind.

[Rolo Kipp]

<round & round he goes...>

OldTimeRadio wrote...
Yep, that's the best way to do it.  Or, at least keep it as low as you possibly can.  I'm sure there are other things at play but I uncovered some harsh rounding that happens in NWMax on export.  If you go to this thread and search for "And I think I just realized" you can read more about what I found and how to "correct" it.  You might want to consider making the changes I talk about there- it would definitely help the situation though not totally, I'm sure.  BioWare models are rounded down to 5-6 decimal places whereas NWMax rounds them down to 3-4, or something like that.  So you buy a little wiggle room.  Your mileage may vary, but for fine positioning involving nodes or vertices, it seems to be worth looking into.

Hmmm... looking at the script, g_RoundOffVertices is only supposed to be true for tiles. Not sure I'm gonna mess with it at the moment, but I'll definitely be watching it. TY. :-)

<...'cuz he adores spirals and labyrinths and...>

[OldTimeRadio]

Huh- I can't explain that. Maybe I just quoted the wrong bit of script or something or maybe it was a reused bit of code. I definitely know I was able to change the rounding because it was the only way I could possibly get Estelindis's beautiful necklaces to export correctly after importing them.

<...parenthetically scratching his head...>

[Estelindis]

One more note on custom animations: Ninja Weasel Man's romantic animations are part of ProjectQ.  It seems most authors haven't done much with them, but Andarian's Sanctum of the Archmage series shows how they can give us some really tender moments:



If anyone wants advice on how to use these great animations, this thread on the Q forum has some information. TrickyHands suggests looking at "q_anims_inc" for functions related to the animations and volunteers to answer any questions about said file.

Rolo Kipp wrote...

Oh!
My!
GOODIES!

I'm glad you like them!  I've used them for years and couldn't go back to not having these extra animations at my fingertips.  I believe that an update is needed to make them work properly with 1.69's custom radial feats (and maybe, for that matter, the romantic animations; I haven't looked into that myself).  There are two possible compatibility packages here and here, though at this stage I can't remember if I looked to either of them when I made my updates for my own module-specific hak.

WebShaman wrote...

And this, folks, is why we mourn the loss of the Legacy forums.

So much information...knowledge.  Links, ideas, building on each other's works.

*sigh*

I truly hope we get it back.

I agree whole-heartedly. I'm skeptical as to whether Bioware ever will restore them, but at least we have the fully searchable NWN Ombibus to help us in the meantime. I have found it wonderful particularly for preserving the homebrew function thread from the old scripting forum.  :-)

OldTimeRadio wrote...

I definitely know I was able to change the rounding because it was the only way I could possibly get Estelindis's beautiful necklaces to export correctly after importing them.

And just as I was talking about NWN Omnibus, here's the fine individual responsible for that treasure! I'm glad you were about to find a solution for importing/exporting the necklaces (and thanks for the compliment), but if you ever want my scene files for anything I've made, just let me know.  (I don't make anything without saving and keeping scenes.  Mind you, they are GMax scenes, not 3dsMax.)

Modifié par Estelindis, 15 septembre 2011 - 02:19 .

[Simpson3k]

Hm wow thats really alot of information here *walks around puzzled, confused, nearly hitting the wall*

Well something surprised me really, as i imported one of those mdl files of that alternate combat animation pack, i found out that all possible animations for each race/gender-part are put into one mdl file. Means the human-female mdl contains all animations from unarmed battle till 2H-Weapons.

So does that mean, when i want to add a new emoteanimation for human females at a running server module, that i have to insert that animation into the mdl file wich already contains all possible emoteanimations for human females on that server?

How do i tell nwn then where my new animation starts and ends..and can i simple add it to the end of the mdl or at the beginning or do i have to put it into the middle somewhere at a very special spot?

[Rolo Kipp]

<Making a completely useless...>

Simpson3k wrote...
Well something surprised me really, as i imported one of those mdl files of that alternate combat animation pack, i found out that all possible animations for each race/gender-part are put into one mdl file. Means the human-female mdl contains all animations from unarmed battle till 2H-Weapons.

Actually, the animations are inherited from a chain of "supermodels". The female human animations come from a_ba.mdl, but *that* model gets non-combat anims from... er, don't remember :-P Anyway, the animations are spread out among 3 or 4 models with a common theme.

So does that mean, when i want to add a new emoteanimation for human females at a running server module, that i have to insert that animation into the mdl file wich already contains all possible emoteanimations for human females on that server?

Any animations you want to *change*, just put that animation on your model and your custom animation will override inherited anims. But to be useable in game the animation needs a specific name and the info has to be stored on the aurabase object before you export it.

So, your new "Taunt" animation will have the same name as the old one, but it may have a different range of frames and, of course, different keys.

You do *not* need to store the other default anims on your model, just the ones you want to override.

How do i tell nwn then where my new animation starts and ends..and can i simple add it to the end of the mdl or at the beginning or do i have to put it into the middle somewhere at a very special spot?

Hmmm... At this point, I really recommend reading the Custom Content Guide (animations start at page 109).

<...last will and testament>

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 15 septembre 2011 - 06:21 .

[Simpson3k]

Hm ok just had a talk with the server host, most of the importing stuff he does himself so i focused more on the animation itself. Got a nice set of models from him to work with. First goal is a sitting animation with the legs ahead in one line from above, bended at the knees.

Modifié par Simpson3k, 16 septembre 2011 - 02:58 .

[AndarianTD]

Thanks for the shout-out, Este! For anyone interested, here's a short video clip also showing the Romantic Animations suite in action.

Modifié par AndarianTD, 20 septembre 2011 - 03:46 .