430 réponses à ce sujet

[BloodyTalon]

The amount of time between me2 and me3 is plenty for VS to become one, we don't know how they changed or what they have been doing since we meet them that one time in mass effect 2

People change and crap happens.

[AlexXIV]

Talosred wrote...

The amount of time between me2 and me3 is plenty for VS to become one, we don't know how they changed or what they have been doing since we meet them that one time in mass effect 2

People change and crap happens.

As far as I know though people are not made into Spectres or change so they can become Spectre. They choose Spectres out of people who are not oridinary. Basically from start. And I really can't help to think that Ash and Kaiden becomming Spectres does hurt the spectre myth a bit. It's like saying 'look, everyone can become Spectre', why not Miranda and Jacob as well? They are nothing less than Ash and Kaiden.

Well it's going to happen anyway, but still the reasons for Bio to do it are probably not because either Kaiden or Ashley are especially fit to be Spectre, it's probably got more to do with giving known characters a 'cool' status.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 11 septembre 2011 - 06:47 .

[didymos1120]

AlexXIV wrote...

I'd buy Ash as a Spectre, Kaiden not so much. He seemed a bit whiney, even for a regular soldier.

And btw. Spectres ain't diplomats. That's what you have politicians for. Spectres step in when diplomacy failed.

The Codex disagrees with you:

Spectres are agents from the Office of Special Tactics and Reconnaissance and answer only to the Citadel Council. They are elite military operatives, granted the authority to deal with threats to peace and stability in whatever way they deem necessary.

They operate independently or in groups of two or three. Some are empathetic peacekeepers, resolving disputes through diplomacy. Others are cold-blooded assassins, ruthlessly dispatching problem individuals. All get the job done, one way or another, often operating outside of the bounds of galactic law.

The Spectres were founded after the salarians joined the Council. For many years, they operated in secrecy, as back-room "problem solvers". Only after the Krogan Rebellions did their activities become publicized. Assignment of a Spectre is less contentious than military deployment, but makes it clear that the Council is concerned about a situation.

[jeweledleah]

Kaidan, like Shepard was personally selected by Anderson to lead Normandy's marine detachment before the start of ME1. he had multiple commendations and promotions on his record, is one of the rare stable L2 biotics and pretty much received training on the job by participating in Sarens and Sovereign's defeat. at the time of ME1, he was only one rank bellow Shepard. at the time of ME2 - he actually outranks him

Ashley was highly decorated platoon leader, best in her class, consistently praised. was not promoted from groundside due to her name rather then personal accomplishments. was the last surviving member of her unit on Eden Prime and held her own just fine before Sheaprd's arrival. presumably for hours. was approved by Anderson to join Normandy's crew. Had on the job training with Shepard, during events of ME1. during events of ME2 - acquired highest possible rank for an NCO. fairly sure she didn't go to officer school for the same reason Garrus flunked out of Spectre training.

Codex and the speech says one thing, but Garrus tells Shepard that he was selected among multitude of other Turians as a Spectre candidate. the reason humans are originally held to higher standard is because it would be the very first spectre from that race, a race that doesn't even have a council seat yet, a race that had a spectre candidate before that failed his induction mission (we know that Saren set him up, but that's not how council saw it)

Incidentally - Jacob IS perfectly qualified for spectrehood as well, considering events of the Galaxy and his service record in general. Miranda? why not? if Tela Vasir qualified, so could Miranda. their methods are not dissimilar, as are their skills.

spectres are not some mythical organization full of super amazing specimens, they are merely a unit of operatives with more authority and autonomy.

P.S.  at the above quote.  notice the sentences right after the one that was bolded.  not all spectres use diplomacy.  only some do. primary objective is to get the job done.  which is why all 3 backgrounds for Shepard are equaly qualified.  and which is why Kaidan and Ashley are qualified.  becasue they don't give up, they don't wash out, their keep their loyalties and they focus on a job at hand.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 11 septembre 2011 - 09:13 .

[GodWood]

AlexXIV wrote...
I'd buy Ash as a Spectre, Kaiden not so much. He seemed a bit whiney, even for a regular soldier.

When did he whine?
If anyone was a whiner on the original Normandy it was Garrus.

[didymos1120]

GodWood wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
I'd buy Ash as a Spectre, Kaiden not so much. He seemed a bit whiney, even for a regular soldier.

When did he whine?

Yeah, Kaidan was just about the least whiny character on the Normandy.  Even Wrex complained more than he did.  Really, the closest he came to whining was when he got a little pissed about the Council dragging its feet even after Saren had been outed.

[CroGamer002]

^Yeah, that.

[Someone With Mass]

I don't think Ashley or Kaidan are exactly peacekeepers of diplomacy.

[Swimming Ferret]

I actually facepalmed when I heard about the VS being a Spectre. That being said, my Shep has already killed two veteran Spectres and won't hesitate to deck the VS one if they get too high and mighty. Hopefully that won't happen though and the VS will happily follow orders from Shep. But challenging command- meh, I got snarky enough at Miranda claiming that she was my Second in Command without my own knowledge.

[Arijharn]

Personally, while I think they are capable, I half expect that the reason the VS becomes a Spectre is that they are the ones that are formally tasked with arresting Commander Shephard in the first place and to take our bad ass hero back to Earth to await trial. Since no one else (not even Admiral Hackett) would have the authority to actually arrest Commander Shephard because he (or she!) is a Spectre (and thus above the law?), then it would be up to a 'Spectre to bring one [down]' (to slightly paraphrase Jenkins).
To flow on this; they'd have to take under consideration that Shephard's track record with other Spectre's is less than friendly, so once again it would seem to me that politics was the deciding factor. Shephard 'needs' to be brought to account, makes sense to leverage the situation by empowering one of his 'closest friends' to make the arrest as it's less likely that Shephard may shoot his way out for example. Even if Shephard was to come in 'quietly' there is nothing that the Council can really do to 'ensure' this.

I think this is an acceptable theory that holds up no matter what permutation of choices you as an individual have made as well.

Modifié par Arijharn, 11 septembre 2011 - 11:02 .

[didymos1120]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I don't think Ashley or Kaidan are exactly peacekeepers of diplomacy.

Not really the point.  Someone stated that it was a fact that Spectres just plain don't do diplomacy, which is why I quoted the Codex saying that, in fact, some of them do.

[Swimming Ferret]

Arijharn wrote...

Shephard 'needs' to be brought to account, makes sense to leverage the situation by empowering one of his 'closest friends' to make the arrest as it's less likely that Shephard may shoot his way out for example. Even if Shephard was to come in 'quietly' there is nothing that the Council can really do to 'ensure' this.

But you do have people who wish they could have Virmire'd both Ashley and Kaiden. Many people dislike having choices snatched out of their hands and if they chose they would rather have their Shep's shoot the VS in the face rather then come in quietly. My Renegade Femshep would have simply shot Ashley and been on her merry way; she was always a snarky b!tch to Ashely in ME1 and only saved her ass since she was a Tank.

But Bioware would simply take away the "Running from the law like a BOSS" option. <_< Damnit.

[stysiaq]

VS becoming a Spectre is not that surprising or unacceptable, because after ME1 the humans are on the council, and it's obvious that after Shepard proved humans worthy, more human Spectres will emerge with the help of Human Counsillor.

I won't be surprised, if even more Human Spectres aren't present if you had a full renegade ending of ME1. Fully human council would surely be favorising human Spectre candidates, so they have an STG they can trust, even at the cost of the quality.

VS is an obvious choice even for "paragon scenarios", because:
1. Humans have more influence even if the council is still multispecies one
2. VS served with Shepard, presumably helping to achieve the overall goal
3. The humans must want more human Spectres to back up their prestige and position in the council.

I think that VS being a Spectre is more about politics than Ash/Kaidan achievements.

[Made Nightwing]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Shephard 'needs' to be brought to account, makes sense to leverage the situation by empowering one of his 'closest friends' to make the arrest as it's less likely that Shephard may shoot his way out for example. Even if Shephard was to come in 'quietly' there is nothing that the Council can really do to 'ensure' this.

But you do have people who wish they could have Virmire'd both Ashley and Kaiden. Many people dislike having choices snatched out of their hands and if they chose they would rather have their Shep's shoot the VS in the face rather then come in quietly. My Renegade Femshep would have simply shot Ashley and been on her merry way; she was always a snarky b!tch to Ashely in ME1 and only saved her ass since she was a Tank.

But Bioware would simply take away the "Running from the law like a BOSS" option. <_< Damnit.

Well, since the game needs to have an actual storyline that doesn't involve killing all the characters you don't like, I guees they have to

[Swimming Ferret]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Well, since the game needs to have an actual storyline that doesn't involve killing all the characters you don't like, I guees they have to

Depends if the end is like ME2 where you can essentically kill everyone except for Joker and EDI. Though by all accounts there is a "you screwed up everything and the Reapers won, you ******" ending in ME3. And b!tch fests with squaddies that can turn lethal.

[Arijharn]

Swimming Ferret wrote...
But you do have people who wish they could have Virmire'd both Ashley and Kaiden. Many people dislike having choices snatched out of their hands and if they chose they would rather have their Shep's shoot the VS in the face rather then come in quietly. 

One of the conversation options with Liara at the end of the Shadow Broker (where she asks how you're *really* doing) is one where Shephard lets out his (or her) exasperation with how his 'closest friends' don't believe him or something.

You never ever have complete freedom of action in a BioWare RPG (and without getting sidetracked too much, I think this is a good thing), and since Shephard hasn't shot the VS out of principle (or spite) so far, then I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon, not in the beginning of ME3 anyway.

[Swimming Ferret]

Arijharn wrote...

One of the conversation options with Liara at the end of the Shadow Broker (where she asks how you're *really* doing) is one where Shephard lets out his (or her) exasperation with how his 'closest friends' don't believe him or something.

You never ever have complete freedom of action in a BioWare RPG (and without getting sidetracked too much, I think this is a good thing), and since Shephard hasn't shot the VS out of principle (or spite) so far, then I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon, not in the beginning of ME3 anyway.

Bah, LoTSB pissed me off a bit as in nicking many of your reactions and making it seem like you like Liara way more then you do. The VS was never really a friend to my Shepards. Garrus was the closest friend to most of my Shepards, and maybe Miranda with a few. I actually forgot about the VS in most of ME2 since they never bothered to say hi. (None of my Sheps romanced them)
Personally, I like Liara, but when I was playing Renegade and wanted to be rude to her, there seemed to be really no way. :/ Made my Shep act like a bro, which was annoying as I didn't want her to be. Hopefully BW won't force my Shepard into stupid converstations like that too much in ME3, but like hell I want a hug from Ashley or Kaiden or something more bro-worthy.

[stysiaq]

Arijharn wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...
But you do have people who wish they could have Virmire'd both Ashley and Kaiden. Many people dislike having choices snatched out of their hands and if they chose they would rather have their Shep's shoot the VS in the face rather then come in quietly. 

One of the conversation options with Liara at the end of the Shadow Broker (where she asks how you're *really* doing) is one where Shephard lets out his (or her) exasperation with how his 'closest friends' don't believe him or something.

You never ever have complete freedom of action in a BioWare RPG (and without getting sidetracked too much, I think this is a good thing), and since Shephard hasn't shot the VS out of principle (or spite) so far, then I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon, not in the beginning of ME3 anyway.

It still beats my latest Shepard, who complained about the Varren. I facepalmed.

[Killjoy Cutter]

jreezy wrote...

I was always confused that a lot of people on here consider Kaidan whiny. He never really gives off that impression to me.

He's a guy, and talked about his feelings once, and is therefore whiney.  [/sarcasm]

[Il Divo]

jreezy wrote...

I was always confused that a lot of people on here consider Kaidan whiny. He never really gives off that impression to me.

Eh, I don't really consider Kaidan whiny, but I do think he's rather boring. I actually consider Carth Onasi to be a superior character, even with all the whining.

[ThePwener]

Il Divo wrote...

jreezy wrote...

I was always confused that a lot of people on here consider Kaidan whiny. He never really gives off that impression to me.

Eh, I don't really consider Kaidan whiny, but I do think he's rather boring. I actually consider Carth Onasi to be a superior character, even with all the whining.

For someone who actually spent time talking to him, yes he is whiny. Boring? Not so much. He is interesting, but if the character ain't talking about alien culture or life adventures, the character is boring. Then every human ever must also be boring.

[Whyp_2]

Il Divo wrote...

jreezy wrote...

I was always confused that a lot of people on here consider Kaidan whiny. He never really gives off that impression to me.

Eh, I don't really consider Kaidan whiny, but I do think he's rather boring. I actually consider Carth Onasi to be a superior character, even with all the whining.

Well he did whine a little about the council and he's time in the biotic camp, but I wouldn't consider him whiney for it. He just simply told what he thought of it. And him being boring, well I just hated his voice. So slow and 'husky'.

[Someone With Mass]

didymos1120 wrote...

Not really the point.  Someone stated that it was a fact that Spectres just plain don't do diplomacy, which is why I quoted the Codex saying that, in fact, some of them do.

Still.

I haven't seen them trying to solve any problem diplomatically. Always the "shoot it until it's dead" approach.

Which is pretty much what any marine can do.

[Someone With Mass]

jreezy wrote...

I was always confused that a lot of people on here consider Kaidan whiny. He never really gives off that impression to me.

I find him to be more uninteresting than anything else.

Like Jacob. Jacob would've been so much more of an interesting character if he'd told me more about his time with the Corsairs, instead of mentioning it exactly one time and then go on about how much he wants to keep himself in shape.