430 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Someone With Mass wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Not really the point.  Someone stated that it was a fact that Spectres just plain don't do diplomacy, which is why I quoted the Codex saying that, in fact, some of them do.

Still.

I haven't seen them trying to solve any problem diplomatically. Always the "shoot it until it's dead" approach.

Which is pretty much what any marine can do.

Commander Shepard can try and be diplomatic.

And he/she is 1 of 4 Spectres that we seen in entire franchise( not counting Ashley and Kaidan) while one of them dies few minutes in game while the other hour later went officially rogue.
Also Vasir could be diplomatic a little as well.

[CroGamer002]

Someone With Mass wrote...

jreezy wrote...

I was always confused that a lot of people on here consider Kaidan whiny. He never really gives off that impression to me.

I find him to be more uninteresting than anything else.

Like Jacob. Jacob would've been so much more of an interesting character if he'd told me more about his time with the Corsairs, instead of mentioning it exactly one time and then go on about how much he wants to keep himself in shape.

Agreed.


Also I do hope he at least goes for N7 Special training in ME3.
It may improve him to be a badass since he will join the badass ranks of Commander Shepard and Kai Leng.

Modifié par Mesina2, 11 septembre 2011 - 01:26 .

[ThePwener]

Mesina2 wrote...

Also Vasir could be diplomatic a little as well.

Vasir seemed more pragmatic then diplomatic, blowing up a trade center and blaming a terrorist organization isn't very diplomatic.

Saren was diplomatic, being able to fool the council and sway the Geth alongside Sovereign, but we never saw Vasir be diplomatic. She wasn't even a very good liar. Other then that all she did was taut us.

[ThePwener]

Mesina2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

jreezy wrote...

I was always confused that a lot of people on here consider Kaidan whiny. He never really gives off that impression to me.

I find him to be more uninteresting than anything else.

Like Jacob. Jacob would've been so much more of an interesting character if he'd told me more about his time with the Corsairs, instead of mentioning it exactly one time and then go on about how much he wants to keep himself in shape.

Agreed.


Also I do hope he at least goes for N7 Special training in ME3.
It may improve him to be a badass since he will join the badass ranks of Commander Shepard and Kai Leng.

Like I said before. It's sad that what makes a character interesting is how much they talk about they're past adventures. Better writing is when they talk about themselves. He obviously didn't enjoy his time in the corsairs, so why would he talk about it?

[Estelindis]

AlexXIV wrote...
Spectres are the toughest guys you can find in the galaxy and Kaiden is just not.

Kaidan is a sentinel.  Shepard can also be a sentinel.  Clearly versatility is valued in a spectre; toughness isn't the only virtue.

[ThePwener]

Estelindis wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
Spectres are the toughest guys you can find in the galaxy and Kaiden is just not.

Kaidan is a sentinel.  Shepard can also be a sentinel.  Clearly versatility is valued in a spectre; toughness isn't the only virtue.

Shepard is a cyborg, Kaidan isn't.

[Estelindis]

ThePwener wrote...

Shepard is a cyborg, Kaidan isn't.

In ME1, when Shepard was appointed a Spectre, Shepard wasn't a cyborg.  S/he was a nice, squishy ME1 sentinel.

[Killjoy Cutter]

ThePwener wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
Spectres are the toughest guys you can find in the galaxy and Kaiden is just not.

Kaidan is a sentinel.  Shepard can also be a sentinel.  Clearly versatility is valued in a spectre; toughness isn't the only virtue.

Shepard is a cyborg, Kaidan isn't.

Neither are most Spectres... 

Being a walking AFV who gets up from bomb blasts, and shrugs off doses of poison and drugs meant to drop elephants, isn't the only way to qualify to be a Spectre. 

[ThePwener]

Estelindis wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Shepard is a cyborg, Kaidan isn't.

In ME1, when Shepard was appointed a Spectre, Shepard wasn't a cyborg.  S/he was a nice, squishy ME1 sentinel.

No, but at level 60 you get more skill points then Kaidan. Huzzaa!

[Estelindis]

ThePwener wrote...
at level 60 you get more skill points then Kaidan.

Shepard gets more skill points than everyone, including all other squaddies who various people in the thread are claiming would be better Spectre candidates than Kaidan.   

Seriously, no one is saying that Shepard isn't badass.  No one.  I am simply saying that people other than Shepard can meet the criteria for Spectrehood.  Or Spectreship.  Um.  Spectre membership?    It's really not that controversial a proposition.

Modifié par Estelindis, 11 septembre 2011 - 02:03 .

[ThePwener]

Estelindis wrote...

ThePwener wrote...
No, but at level 60 you get more skill points then Kaidan.

Shepard gets more skill points than everyone, including all other squaddies who various people in the thread are claiming would be better Spectre candidates than Kaidan.   

Nobody is fit to be a Spectre, nobody. That much power turns you into a bastard at some point. We haven't met a single good spectre and I don't think we will. It's the reason I didn't take the job back. If Im going to break the law, I'll do it on my own terms. Being able to do wathever I want without consequence feels wrong.

[Il Divo]

Whyp_2 wrote...

Well he did whine a little about the council and he's time in the biotic camp, but I wouldn't consider him whiney for it. He just simply told what he thought of it. And him being boring, well I just hated his voice. So slow and 'husky'.

Still, I think the idea behind Kaidan's biotic camp experience was that he wasn't whining about it, but simply telling the story. He explains the events that happened, without getting overly emotional, and suprisingly doesn't hate aliens as a result of his experiences. It's pretty different from the Carth character, getting worked up every time Saul Karath is mentioned, but I actually liked the revenge plotline.

Essentially, if you take Carth Onasi and remove the revenge plot/emotional trauma, you have Kaidan Alenko.

[Estelindis]

Il Divo wrote...

Essentially, if you take Carth Onasi and remove the revenge plot/emotional trauma, you have Kaidan Alenko.

I dunno...

• Kaidan is not a hotshot pilot (we only see him in the co-pilot's seat once; Joker is the Normandy's hotshot).
  
• Kaidan can use biotics (whereas Carth could not use the Force).
  
• Kaidan's class is not "Soldier"; in fact, he's the very opposite, half-and-half biotics and tech.
  
• While Carth could wield a wide variety of guns, Kaidan has no weapons skill apart from basic pistol training and the Sentinel bonus.
  
• Kaidan hasn't been married.
  
• Kaidan does not have a long-lost son.
  
• Kaidan hasn't mentioned losing a member of his family to war (in fact, he specifically countered Vyrnnus's jibe about killing his father in the First Contact War - his father didn't fight in that war and is still alive and well).
  
• Kaidan hasn't suffered a past loss that was secretly Shepard's fault and can't be betrayed by Shepard over the course of the game by Shepard joining the Reapers.  Okay, so he isn't happy about Shepard being with Cerberus, but at least Cerberus != the Reapers.
  
• Kaidan hasn't been betrayed by his previous commanding officer, Capt. Anderson, and as a result isn't searching for Anderson in order to obtain revenge.
  
• And, most importantly, Kaidan can dance. Not well. But he can still dance! 

Modifié par Estelindis, 11 septembre 2011 - 02:24 .

[Il Divo]

Estelindis wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Essentially, if you take Carth Onasi and remove the revenge plot/emotional trauma, you have Kaidan Alenko.

I dunno...

[list]
[*]Kaidan is not a hotshot pilot (we only see him in the co-pilot's seat once; Joker is the Normandy's hotshot).


[*]Kaidan can use biotics (whereas Carth could not use the Force).


[*]Kaidan's class is not "Soldier"; in fact, he's the very opposite, half-and-half biotics and tech.


[*]While Carth could wield a wide variety of guns, Kaidan has no weapons skill apart from basic pistol training and the Sentinel bonus.


[*]Kaidan hasn't been married.


[*]Kaidan does not have a long-lost son.


[*]Kaidan hasn't mentioned losing a member of his family to war (in fact, he specifically countered Vyrnnus's jibe about killing his father in the First Contact War - his father didn't fight in that war and is still alive and well).


[*]Kaidan doesn't have enormous trust issues with Shepard - hasn't suffered a past loss that was secretly Shepard's fault - and can't be betrayed by Shepard over the course of the game by Shepard joining the Reapers (there is no such option ).  EDIT: Okay, so I wrote this before ME2...  Bah.  (At least Cerberus != the Reapers.)


[*]Kaidan hasn't been betrayed by his previous commanding officer, Capt. Anderson, and as a result isn't searching for Anderson in order to obtain revenge.

Ah, but I was speaking personality-wise. Kaidan's class is different from Carth's, as is his backstory, but the revenge complex was a huge aspect of Carth's personality and is very critical to his development as a character. But what if we remove that + the emotional trauma? 

[*]And, most importantly, Kaidan can dance. Not well. But he can still dance! 

Point taken.

[Estelindis]

Il Divo wrote...
Ah, but I was speaking personality-wise. Kaidan's class is different from Carth's, as is his backstory, but the revenge complex was a huge aspect of Carth's personality and is very critical to his development as a character. But what if we remove that + the emotional trauma?

 
It would help your case if you explained what you thought the personality similarities were.  Do you mean that they both have a dry sense of humour and place a lot of importance on personal honour, for instance?

Either way, whether Kaidan's like Carth or not, I don't think it makes him any less suitable to be a Spectre.  I really liked Carth; I don't say that Kaidan's dissimilar to him in order to somehow make Kaidan seem better, but because most people who say the two are similar don't argue anything near as eloquently as you do.

[NICKjnp]

I actually like the concept. It is the kind of character development that I find believable. It isn't a change to an existing character but rather growth for that character. The same goes for Wrex as Urdnot's clan leader.

[Heimdall]

AlexXIV wrote...

Talosred wrote...

The amount of time between me2 and me3 is plenty for VS to become one, we don't know how they changed or what they have been doing since we meet them that one time in mass effect 2

People change and crap happens.

As far as I know though people are not made into Spectres or change so they can become Spectre. They choose Spectres out of people who are not oridinary. Basically from start. And I really can't help to think that Ash and Kaiden becomming Spectres does hurt the spectre myth a bit. It's like saying 'look, everyone can become Spectre', why not Miranda and Jacob as well? They are nothing less than Ash and Kaiden.

Well it's going to happen anyway, but still the reasons for Bio to do it are probably not because either Kaiden or Ashley are especially fit to be Spectre, it's probably got more to do with giving known characters a 'cool' status.

Consider, Spectre's are choen from skilled and remarkable individuals.  Both Ashley and Kaidan are skilled decorated soldiers with impressive track records considering there time with Shepard and whatever they've done in the intervening years, presuming they've had much more successful missions than Horizon.  Not all Spectre's are Shepards, in fact I suspect the standards for Shepard's recruitment were higher than usual do to him being the first of his species.  I don't think the Council is going to consider Cerberus operatives, former or otherwise, for Spectre status anytime soon.

[Dean_the_Young]

ubermensch007 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

iakus wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

In all honesty....

Ash: Too emotionally reactive and too quick to jumb to conclusions....I don't believe she would be able to keep her cool enough to deal approbriately with the more diplomatically delicate situations a Spectre encounters...and so thus, this also weakens her ability to be a voice of authority...way too reactive.

Kaidan: Simply put...too nice and malleable...I doubt he could make the hard decisions and could be too easily swayed....I like Kaidan, but I don't think he could stand under too much heat.

Kaidan would be more appropriate to send into diplomatic situations where a deft touch is needed.  While Ash would be more appropriate to send to an ****kicking competition and lay down the law.  

Different skillsets fro different situations.

Yes....but they can't combine into one Spectre....together they would rock, seperate they don't cut it.

It's like I said, the Council has Spectres for many different purposes, with many different skillsets.  They probably get assignments based on what those talents are.

There's probably a reason why we haven't seen a Salarian Spectre so far, for example.  They probably specialize in "behind the scenes" jobs where you never know they were there (assuming they were successful)

The Cerberus Daily news speaks of a salarian Spectre that supposedly tried to take out Sonax Industries' Lira Speight. We might meet him or her in ME 3.

And Volus!Spectre would make an ideal agent for the worlds of diplomacy and finances, where violence is less of a priority but being able to break the rules at will combined with other talents could preserve galactic stability.

I mean, who's a graver threat to the Council system: TruthHax leakers who publish embarassing economic reports (and thus get Tela Vasir called in), or cabals of interstellar corporations trying to corner the market on e-zero and fund their own private armies?

[1136342t54_]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Yes, and then Saren spent an unspecified amount of time mentoring him.

What's your point? I'm assuming the VS got mentored for a few missions like Shepard was supposed to.

[1136342t54_]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Okay, sure. From who? When?

It could be from any Spectre. Seriously I'm not going to make a stupid assumption and say they haven't gotten any mentoring. Nihlus and Shepard were both sent on missions with Spectres so they can be mentored. Why should I assume it is so different with the VS?

[1136342t54_]

Saphra Deden wrote...
The codex is not the word of god. While I wouldn't dispute that diplomatic Spectres exist, I think they are an anomaly and definitely not the "ideal" Spectre.

There is a reason Spectres have a licsence to murder.

Diplomatic doesn't necessarily have to mean paragon. You can be diplomatic and willing to kill everything in your way. Being diplomatic would likely be necessary for certain missions that would be in more urban heavily populated areas. If your on the Battlefield and assigned to Assassinate someone they would send a more assassin oriented Spectre.

[SPACE_GREASER]

Im so glad ashlys dead