Saphra Deden wrote...
1136342t54 wrote...
Nihlus basically started off as a talented hot headed grunt in the Turian military and was chosen as a spectre candidate by Saren.
Yes, and then Saren spent an unspecified amount of time mentoring him.
The point is nobody needs spectres to do diplomacy. What ever the codex says doesn't really matter when logic dictates otherwise. They have diplomats, who do diplomacy all day. If someone is really good at diplomacy, they will become diplomats. Much like in real life. Spectre's can do diplomacy, even Shep does occationally. But a Spectre needs to have alot more skills than just being good at diplomacy, or just being good at one thing alone.didymos1120 wrote...
Someone With Mass wrote...
I don't think Ashley or Kaidan are exactly peacekeepers of diplomacy.
Not really the point. Someone stated that it was a fact that Spectres just plain don't do diplomacy, which is why I quoted the Codex saying that, in fact, some of them do.
Modifié par AlexXIV, 11 septembre 2011 - 09:47 .
AlexXIV wrote...
Just think about it yourself, why would you
need to send a Spectre to do diplomacy? Only reason I could think of is
that the people to talk to are in a warzone and a dimplomat wouldn't
risk his/her life to go there. So basically they need a badass to go
where nobody else could get, and I doubt you can do that by talking your
way through.
Modifié par essarr71, 11 septembre 2011 - 09:52 .
Oh yeah you are absolutely right. Its not like Spectres like Saren are diplomatic and economically savvy enough to gain influence in multiple corporations or go into the Terminus Systems and make deals with War lords to allow access in to certain territories. /SarcasmAlexXIV wrote...
The point is nobody needs spectres to do diplomacy. What ever the codex says doesn't really matter when logic dictates otherwise. They have diplomats, who do diplomacy all day. If someone is really good at diplomacy, they will become diplomats. Much like in real life. Spectre's can do diplomacy, even Shep does occationally. But a Spectre needs to have alot more skills than just being good at diplomacy, or just being good at one thing alone.
Spectres aren't soldiers they are agents. Sometimes they go into warzones but during peace time they don't. They have to operate in urban and heavily populated areas sometimes secretly. Which means they can't always tell everyone they are a Spectre. That is when diplomacy works.Just think about it yourself, why would you need to send a Spectre to do diplomacy? Only reason I could think of is that the people to talk to are in a warzone and a dimplomat wouldn't risk his/her life to go there. So basically they need a badass to go where nobody else could get, and I doubt you can do that by talking your way through.
We were discussing whether Ash and Kaiden are fit to be Spectres. So yes, they can have authority to be a sort of messenger or even make decisions by themselves. But thing is, just because they are good at diplomacy doesn't make them a good Spectre. I always thought Ash and Kaiden were oridinary people. Nothing special about them. And that's why I doubt they are fit for the role. And that's why their diplomatic skills, if they even have it, doesn't really matter for the discussion. Spectres are a bit like Jedi Knights, any of them could probably easily take on a squad of elite soldiers and not even get a scratch. Whatever skills they have beyond their fighting prowess is certainly useful, but not a proper replacement for their ability to use brute force if necessary.essarr71 wrote...
Wasn't Nihlus just around to evaluate Shep's abilities? Saren mentoring Nihlus could easily be a special case, or something Saren did on the side. If it was necessary for Spectres to go thru additional training, the events in ME make less sense.AlexXIV wrote...
Just think about it yourself, why would you
need to send a Spectre to do diplomacy? Only reason I could think of is
that the people to talk to are in a warzone and a dimplomat wouldn't
risk his/her life to go there. So basically they need a badass to go
where nobody else could get, and I doubt you can do that by talking your
way through.
I'd agree that Spectres don't fit the mold as a diplomat, but perhaps implies that theyre authorized to speak for the Citadel in the same way a typical diplomat is, but I'd be surprised if one was sent to negotiate a trade agreement.
I don't think you understood what I mean. They have the skills and probably the legitimacy, but that's not enough to be a Spectre. All Spectres I met in game were insanely powerful. Of course they still use stealth or diplomacy at times. The difference between a diplomat and a spectre is that Spectres kick asses.1136342t54 wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
I don't think you understood what I mean. They have the skills and probably the legitimacy, but that's not enough to be a Spectre. All Spectres I met in game were insanely powerful. Of course they still use stealth or diplomacy at times. The difference between a diplomat and a spectre is that Spectres kick asses.1136342t54 wrote...
1136342t54 wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
I don't think you understood what I mean. They have the skills and probably the legitimacy, but that's not enough to be a Spectre. All Spectres I met in game were insanely powerful. Of course they still use stealth or diplomacy at times. The difference between a diplomat and a spectre is that Spectres kick asses.1136342t54 wrote...
I don't even know what post responded to.
AlexXIV wrote...
Does it even matter? Just trying to explain my point.
armass wrote...
Darth Wraith wrote...
Quickly? Remember, it's been two years since ME1.
Personally I think it's a great thing. Gives BioWare a chance to show the VS outside the Alliance military, exploring different sides to their personality as they get used to being essentially a solo operative with broad authority rather than a cog in a large machine.
I don't think the VS was a spectre when you met him/her on Horizon...
All Anderson said was that He/she was promoted and working for alliance...
AlexXIV wrote...
We were discussing whether Ash and Kaiden are fit to be Spectres. So yes, they can have authority to be a sort of messenger or even make decisions by themselves. But thing is, just because they are good at diplomacy doesn't make them a good Spectre. I always thought Ash and Kaiden were oridinary people. Nothing special about them. And that's why I doubt they are fit for the role. And that's why their diplomatic skills, if they even have it, doesn't really matter for the discussion. Spectres are a bit like Jedi Knights, any of them could probably easily take on a squad of elite soldiers and not even get a scratch. Whatever skills they have beyond their fighting prowess is certainly useful, but not a proper replacement for their ability to use brute force if necessary.
Modifié par essarr71, 11 septembre 2011 - 10:21 .
I really think he is neither diplomatic, nor tough, nor cool enoughMade Nightwing wrote...
So...people are saying that Kaidan is too diplomatic to be a Spectre. But when we point out that Spectre's are sometimes required NOT to go in and kick all the asses, but be more of an unspoken force with the power to negotiate, but still kick ass if necessary (and Kaidan suits this role very well), they say that Kaidan is not diplomatic enough to be a Spectre? Seriously, I can't even keep track of the weakness of these arguments.
AlexXIV wrote...
I really think he is neither diplomatic, nor tough, nor cool enoughMade Nightwing wrote...
So...people are saying that Kaidan is too diplomatic to be a Spectre. But when we point out that Spectre's are sometimes required NOT to go in and kick all the asses, but be more of an unspoken force with the power to negotiate, but still kick ass if necessary (and Kaidan suits this role very well), they say that Kaidan is not diplomatic enough to be a Spectre? Seriously, I can't even keep track of the weakness of these arguments.
essarr71 wrote...
And as a side-note: I have to disagree on ya about Spectres = Jedi. It doesn't match up at all. Spectres are more like a black-ops group, or secret-police, that people are aware exist and know little more than that they don't want to ever have to deal with one.
Then I am curious what he did or they did to him to change him that much.1136342t54 wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
I really think he is neither diplomatic, nor tough, nor cool enoughMade Nightwing wrote...
So...people are saying that Kaidan is too diplomatic to be a Spectre. But when we point out that Spectre's are sometimes required NOT to go in and kick all the asses, but be more of an unspoken force with the power to negotiate, but still kick ass if necessary (and Kaidan suits this role very well), they say that Kaidan is not diplomatic enough to be a Spectre? Seriously, I can't even keep track of the weakness of these arguments.
ME1 Kaidan is the former but not the latter. The thing is we aren't talking about ME1 Kaidan.
AlexXIV wrote...
Then I am curious what he did or they did to him to change him that much.
AlexXIV wrote...
Shepard is quite famous. I don't recall Obi Wan being as present in the media on Coruscant or whatever planet. I don't think they are Black OPs if Cerberus are. Spectres are known. Basically everyone at C-Sec knows if you are a Spectre. That's hardly helping to keep things secret.
AlexXIV wrote...
essarr71 wrote...
And as a side-note: I have to disagree on ya about Spectres = Jedi. It doesn't match up at all. Spectres are more like a black-ops group, or secret-police, that people are aware exist and know little more than that they don't want to ever have to deal with one.
Shepard is quite famous. I don't recall Obi Wan being as present in the media on Coruscant or whatever planet. I don't think they are Black OPs if Cerberus are. Spectres are known. Basically everyone at C-Sec knows if you are a Spectre. That's hardly helping to keep things secret.
Well to not be confusing, I liked Kaiden. I even saved him and let Ashley die. But as a Spectre I rather see Ash than Kaiden because Kaiden was ... too much like the regular guy. Ashley was at least a soldier class and a female who can make a career as a soldier must have something special about her. In my opinion. I am not really argueing against Ash as a Specter which makes this maybe pointless because I can just save Ash in a playthough and Kaiden never gets to be Spectre in my playthrough1136342t54 wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
Then I am curious what he did or they did to him to change him that much.
That woud be part of the point of playing ME3. Kaidan has likely three years of experience fighting Geth, mercs, Krogan and other badies. Hell TIM said that the VS profile is suprisingly classified. Even Cerberus can't necessarily get too much access to it.
She is a Justicar, I think that would be conflicting with being a Spectre. She even fought a Spectre once (Nihlus). But if you are just talking about her skills I think she would be at least as good as a Spectre as the one ******spoiler****** Shepard killed in LotSB (forgot the name).Lexa_ wrote...
I know it's a little bit OT but wouldn't Samara make a perfect Spectre?
Modifié par AlexXIV, 11 septembre 2011 - 10:47 .
AlexXIV wrote...
She is a Justicar, I think that would be conflicting with being a Spectre. She even fought a Spectre once (Nihilus). But if you are just talking about her skills I think she would be at least as good as a Spectre as the one ******spoiler****** Shepard killed in LotSB forgot the name).Lexa_ wrote...
I know it's a little bit OT but wouldn't Samara make a perfect Spectre?
Modifié par Lexa_, 11 septembre 2011 - 10:51 .
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