430 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

essarr71 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

And as a side-note: I have to disagree on ya about Spectres = Jedi.  It doesn't match up at all.  Spectres are more like a black-ops group, or secret-police, that people are aware exist and know little more than that they don't want to ever have to deal with one.

Shepard is quite famous. I don't recall Obi Wan being as present in the media on Coruscant or whatever planet. I don't think they are Black OPs if Cerberus are. Spectres are known. Basically everyone at C-Sec knows if you are a Spectre. That's hardly helping to keep things secret.

Yeah well, Shep also saved the entire Citadel.  But Spectres aren't, or don't need to be: spiritual, good v evil, serve as advisors or have strict codes of conduct.  They were born from the STG, both in form and members.. a covert group.

I think if it was important to maintain secrecy, then they would have done it. Nobody needed to know that it was Shepard who saved the Citadel. If they wanted to keep the 'hero' a secret, they probably could. Even the media knew about Shepard becomming the first human Spectre.

[1136342t54_]

AlexXIV wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Then I am curious what he did or they did to him to change him that much.

That woud be part of the point of playing ME3. Kaidan has likely three years of experience fighting Geth, mercs, Krogan and other badies. Hell TIM said that the VS profile is suprisingly classified. Even Cerberus can't necessarily get too much access to it.

Well to not be confusing, I liked Kaiden. I even saved him and let Ashley die. But as a Spectre I rather see Ash than Kaiden because Kaiden was ... too much like the regular guy. Ashley was at least a soldier class and a female who can make a career as a soldier must have something special about her. In my opinion. I am not really argueing against Ash as a Specter which makes this maybe pointless because I can just save Ash in a playthough and Kaiden never gets to be Spectre in my playthrough

Kaidan was more experienced and a higher rank than Ashley. He was also one of the more powerful human biotic users since he was a L2. Kaidan also killed a experienced Turian Mercenary when he was teen by biotically kicking him.

Ashley is more normal than Kaidan.

[AlexXIV]

1136342t54 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Then I am curious what he did or they did to him to change him that much.

That woud be part of the point of playing ME3. Kaidan has likely three years of experience fighting Geth, mercs, Krogan and other badies. Hell TIM said that the VS profile is suprisingly classified. Even Cerberus can't necessarily get too much access to it.

Well to not be confusing, I liked Kaiden. I even saved him and let Ashley die. But as a Spectre I rather see Ash than Kaiden because Kaiden was ... too much like the regular guy. Ashley was at least a soldier class and a female who can make a career as a soldier must have something special about her. In my opinion. I am not really argueing against Ash as a Specter which makes this maybe pointless because I can just save Ash in a playthough and Kaiden never gets to be Spectre in my playthrough

Kaidan was more experienced and a higher rank than Ashley. He was also one of the more powerful human biotic users since he was a L2. Kaidan also killed a experienced Turian Mercenary when he was teen by biotically kicking him.

Ashley is more normal than Kaidan.

True, maybe it is just a matter of taste.

[Lord Jaric]

essarr71 wrote...

People complain about how the VS responded to Shep in ME2, but I thought it was great.  These were people who followed you thru hell and back, and after grieving Shep's death, dealing with reassignment, and seeing their own careers get some forward momentum (instead of each having a big black mark on their records) they've come to be where Shep was without needing them.  So when they see Shep alive on Horizon, it shows just how much they've matured.  Their commander, who should be dead, is alive and working for a questionable organization..

I agree with this. When I took a moment to look at the situation afterwards I could understand why they responded the way they did, When I thought about it I figured I would of probably acted the same way. Some of the people who responded negativly to what happen, I can't help but feel it was because they were insecure and didn't like being talked down like that.

[essarr71]

AlexXIV wrote...

I think if it was important to maintain secrecy, then they would have done it. Nobody needed to know that it was Shepard who saved the Citadel. If they wanted to keep the 'hero' a secret, they probably could. Even the media knew about Shepard becomming the first human Spectre.

True.  But my point was that it wasn't a secret that there WERE Spectres, but their operations were secret.  Hence secret police or a well known about black ops. 

[Spanky Magoo]

Jacob seems like a better candidate than either vs, given what he did before me2, all the vs has done so far is be on the same ship as shepard and get captured on horizon so unless they do something big I dont see why they get promoted.

[1136342t54_]

Spanky Magoo wrote...

Jacob seems like a better candidate than either vs, given what he did before me2, all the vs has done so far is be on the same ship as shepard and get captured on horizon so unless they do something big I dont see why they get promoted.

Jacob hasn't really done much in skill level to be considered no better than Kaidan nor Ashley. Jacob stopped a terrorist attack with help. The VS fought with Shepard to save the galaxy. Jacob and the VS are basically equal in skill level. Hell Kaidan and jacob are likely equal in biotics.

[Spanky Magoo]

1136342t54 wrote...

Spanky Magoo wrote...

Jacob seems like a better candidate than either vs, given what he did before me2, all the vs has done so far is be on the same ship as shepard and get captured on horizon so unless they do something big I dont see why they get promoted.

Jacob hasn't really done much in skill level to be considered no better than Kaidan nor Ashley. Jacob stopped a terrorist attack with help. The VS fought with Shepard to save the galaxy. Jacob and the VS are basically equal in skill level. Hell Kaidan and jacob are likely equal in biotics.

  But he did actually do something other than sit on the normandy ( I hardly ever took them on missions ) but I guess that goes both ways I hardly ever use jacob in me2 in me1 it was Garrus+ Wrex/Liara and in me2 its always Miranda+Garrus/Grunt/Samara so idk im just not really a big fan of ash/kaidan. 

[Lord Jaric]

Spanky Magoo wrote...

  But he did actually do something other than sit on the normandy ( I hardly ever took them on missions ) but I guess that goes both ways I hardly ever use jacob in me2 in me1 it was Garrus+ Wrex/Liara and in me2 its always Miranda+Garrus/Grunt/Samara so idk im just not really a big fan of ash/kaidan. 

Not being a fan and not using them in your game doesn't disqualify them.

[Spanky Magoo]

Lord Jaric wrote...

Spanky Magoo wrote...

  But he did actually do something other than sit on the normandy ( I hardly ever took them on missions ) but I guess that goes both ways I hardly ever use jacob in me2 in me1 it was Garrus+ Wrex/Liara and in me2 its always Miranda+Garrus/Grunt/Samara so idk im just not really a big fan of ash/kaidan. 

Not being a fan and not using them in your game doesn't disqualify them.

Thats what I was saying about it going both ways. I just hope bw has them do something big that comes to light in me3 that makes them seem badass and skilled enough to be a spectre. Otherwise it will seem kinda shoehorned in, not hating on them I just dont think either of them have done anything within the story that makes them spectre worthy thats all.

[JimiShep]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

The VS becoming a Spectre is probably just a political move. Just like when Shepard became a Spectre.

Like when the first Human Spectre died in a collector attack... They had to fill that signifigant role with another human. Why wouldn't be the VS??? I think Kaidian would be a much better Spectre then Ash

[Killjoy Cutter]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

The VS becoming a Spectre is probably just a political move. Just like when Shepard became a Spectre.

Play ME again if you think it had nothing to do with Shepard's actual qualifications. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

Spanky Magoo wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Spanky Magoo wrote...

Jacob seems like a better candidate than either vs, given what he did before me2, all the vs has done so far is be on the same ship as shepard and get captured on horizon so unless they do something big I dont see why they get promoted.

Jacob hasn't really done much in skill level to be considered no better than Kaidan nor Ashley. Jacob stopped a terrorist attack with help. The VS fought with Shepard to save the galaxy. Jacob and the VS are basically equal in skill level. Hell Kaidan and jacob are likely equal in biotics.

  But he did actually do something other than sit on the normandy ( I hardly ever took them on missions ) but I guess that goes both ways I hardly ever use jacob in me2 in me1 it was Garrus+ Wrex/Liara and in me2 its always Miranda+Garrus/Grunt/Samara so idk im just not really a big fan of ash/kaidan. 

The storyline assumption, however, is that all of the characters were there for everything. 

(Example:  even if you never took Tali or Garrus on a single mission where you ended up fighting Cerberus in ME, they'll both comment  as if they saw Cerberus shenanigans first-hand.)

There's no way to write around who each indvidual player took on which missions. 

So for the storyline, the VS was there from Eden Prime all the way to the final battle on the Citadel, for everything.

[ubermensch007]

Bioware has said that Ashley Williams in particular is going to have matured and become far more of a seasoned soldier in Mass Effect 3.I may have rolled my eyes a bit, by hearing the way they are trying to sell her as a legitmate Spectre.But after seeing this Fan Art of Lieutenant Ashley Williams as a Spectre:




The look on her face.Is the look of a woman -- a soldier; who has  "Been There Done That"

I gotta admit... She looks like a Spectre here...

Modifié par ubermensch007, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:30 .

[Last Vizard]

armass wrote...

A good thing, bad thing?

Your toughts please.

I find it odd they became a spectre so quickly. Intresting to see what the backstory will be for this and how different spectres Ashley and Kaidan are from eachother.

Kaidan yes - he is a biotic, Ashley - no she is just another grunt with a gun.

[Last Vizard]

ubermensch007 wrote...

Bioware has said that Ashley Williams in particular is going to have matured and become far more of a seasoned soldier in Mass Effect 3.I may have rolled my eyes a bit, by hearing the way they are trying to sell her as a legitmate Spectre.But after seeing this Fan Art of Lieutenant Ashley Williams as a Spectre:




The look on her face.Is the look of a woman -- a soldier; who has  "Been There Done That"

I gotta admit... She looks like a Spectre here...

Her figure doesn't yell "years of hard training" to me.... it says "fan service"

[didymos1120]

Last Vizard wrote...

Kaidan yes - he is a biotic, Ashley - no she is just another grunt with a gun.

And so?  Anderson was "just another grunt with a gun" and only failed to become a Spectre due to Saren sabotaging him with a falsified report.  And Nihlus was "just another grunt with a gun" too.  And don't forget Shep can be a Soldier, which is the most played class.

[LGTX]

I wouldn't let their morals run unobstructed, but that's just me.

[Last Vizard]

didymos1120 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Kaidan yes - he is a biotic, Ashley - no she is just another grunt with a gun.

And so?  Anderson was "just another grunt with a gun" and only failed to become a Spectre due to Saren sabotaging him with a falsified report.  And Nihlus was "just another grunt with a gun" too.  And don't forget Shep can be a Soldier, which is the most played class.

Biotic v normal soldier.... shouldn't even come close to qualifying for spectre duty unless you have biotic abilities, Anderson and Nihlus are not just regular soldiers.  Ashley doesn't have the figure a capable Female soldier would have, no Ashley isn't spectre material.

[Dean_the_Young]

You realize that, in lore, biotics are more or less glass-canons who exhaust themselves in incredibly short order? And that mastery of biotics is a time-intensive training that comes at the cost of, well, other skills?

Gameplay both underplays the power of biotics (the Jack example), but radically boosts the endurance. In lore, biotics don't go around casting singularities or warp explosions every six seconds in the fight. Nor do they maintain biotic barriers for long periods of time.

[Someone With Mass]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You realize that, in lore, biotics are more or less glass-canons who exhaust themselves in incredibly short order? And that mastery of biotics is a time-intensive training that comes at the cost of, well, other skills?

Gameplay both underplays the power of biotics (the Jack example), but radically boosts the endurance. In lore, biotics don't go around casting singularities or warp explosions every six seconds in the fight. Nor do they maintain biotic barriers for long periods of time.

Not to mention that distractions can tear their biotic attack apart.

Like a punch to the head or a stun gun/flashbang.

[essarr71]

Don't bother guys. Can't argue against the fact that Spectres can't be good looking or only exceptionally good with guns, in good shape, or courageous. That's all garbage. You need to be able to use Barrier.

[swenson]

The idea that you have to be a biotic to be a Spectre is silly. Nihlus wasn't, Saren wasn't (although this one is debatable--did he really have biotics on, say, Virmire, or was that some geth/Reaper thing? He's never mentioned as a biotic in any of the books or even in-game except for on like Virmire), and Shepard doesn't have to be. If Ashley became a Spectre, it would be for being a competent soldier, a leader, and the ability to get through difficult situations successfully, not based on whether or not they're a biotic.

Quite frankly, even extensive emphasis on combat isn't required. Shepard can be an Engineer as easily as she can be a Soldier or Adept...

[Tonymac]

I think that its an attempt at cheese-ification.

Like Vader made C3PO or some other really bad set of writing. The mass effect writers are not so bad as to outright cheese it THAT much are they? There has to be more than meets the eye.

Ashley HATES aliens. She is blind to Citadel politics, hates the Council, and is very Alliance oriented. She hates Cerberus, which is a plus, but I do not see her getting along with aliens. She's tough, but all in all is a grunt - not SPECTRE material.

Kaiden fits more into the possible SPECTRE roll. The problem is, no one likes him and he dies over and over like he is in the movie 'Groundhog Day' - except for him its a drive core explosion. SPECTRES do not sit around all day whining and moping about their L2 implant headaches like they have a set of the cramps.

Some of the problem with a series this big is that they are trying to move the story along, yet seem to have forgotten that we have played it from jump street. Sure, people change - we all grow and adapt and move on. I just feel that the writers are trying to re-write the story - re-write the past as it were. They may want to make it wild and fantastic and engrossing, but in order to keep it flowing they need to remember the lines spoke from the first game. Then they can try to keep it believeable.

One of the things that I always like about The Ringworld (Niven) series, or Dune (Herbert) was that they never went back and re-wrote the first books. Everything flowed, and you knew the characters on an intimate basis - you were in their heads. You knew what they did for what reason - you took on that morality - in essence becoming that character. As part of this series, I feel that I know the Virmire Survivor good enough to say that this whole SPECTRE business is more along the lines of "A Jedi?! I'm out of it for a little while and everyone gets these delusions of grandeur....."

Hopefully they will reduce the cheesefactor by several orders of magnitude.