430 réponses à ce sujet

[Riknas]

I love the fact most of you seem to interpret the alliance soldiers as the skill level of a pizza delivery guy or maybe that of an especially skilled diner bus boy (if you're feeling generous).

From the very start of the game, it was clarified that everyone on the Normandy was handpicked by Captain Anderson for who he thought would be the bet suited for the team (Everyone was decorated, including Navigator Pressly and Engineer Adams. Kaidan was already rising the ranks, and is considered a powerful biotic, for a human at least (Maybe not Jack's level but that's something else to worry about). Ashley Williams was also deemed to be a qualified soldier, Shepard can comment that her technical scores were near perfect. She had risen past the rest of her family in the rankings for her skill. She was not special in the fact that she let the rest of her team die. Rather, she was the one person who was able to survive despite the odds. No one had seen Geth in three hundred years and still she managed to fight back and reach Commander Shepard.

Even then, a number of you seem to address the battle of the Citadel as, "Hey now, just because they were there doesn't mean they did a lot," which strikes me as you saying, "I didn't use the VS in my team, so they didn't do a whole lot." Well let me tell you then, I actually used both of my alliance squadmates together all the way up until I had to make a choice, in which case I actually made a separate playthrough to see how both spoke to you.

To which I'd like to clarify, just because you didn't use them, it doesn't meant hat they didn't do anything, or we could say that absolutely no on ine Shepard's team was useful except for the two favorites that you chose to bring on your team for the entirety of the game.

To those of you who say two years isn't a whole lot of time, you're discounting the fact that these guys were in fact doing things with you and leveling up as well, and this happened only over the course of a single year, who's to say they could not have done significantly more over the course of two? Even then, we still don't know what they did after Horizon. Some of you say they couldn't figure out the guns. Neither could we! It took an advanced Illegal AI for us to figure out how to set up the turrets on Horizon.

Really, it sounds more like most of you don't want the VS to seem competent, and spend more time trying to poke holes before actually trying to see if it could make sense.

[MysticMage44]

Ash was a b***c the last time I saw here. I understand that shep's actions were shady but going thought the vents of ME1 she should have realized shep was doing what he was doing for a damn good reason. The fact that she is now a spectre only means one thing. She will be the first squadmate to go if it comes down to that.

[Arppis]

Darth Wraith wrote...

Quickly? Remember, it's been two years since ME1.

Personally I think it's a great thing. Gives BioWare a chance to show the VS outside the Alliance military, exploring different sides to their personality as they get used to being essentially a solo operative with broad authority rather than a cog in a large machine.

Wait, hasn't it been longer?

[Welsh Inferno]

Its been closer to 3 years since ME1 if you have a look at the timeline of events properly.

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 06 septembre 2011 - 05:05 .

[Davie McG]

Arppis wrote...

Darth Wraith wrote...

Quickly? Remember, it's been two years since ME1.

Personally I think it's a great thing. Gives BioWare a chance to show the VS outside the Alliance military, exploring different sides to their personality as they get used to being essentially a solo operative with broad authority rather than a cog in a large machine.

Wait, hasn't it been longer?

Closer to 3 years by the time ME3 begins. Arrival is 3 months after the beginning of ME2 and ME3 is 6 months after that.

Edit: beat me to it, bloody touch screen phones.

Modifié par Davie McG, 06 septembre 2011 - 05:08 .

[ODST 3]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sounds a little fishy to me. Went from nobodies to Spectres in just over two years? I don't buy that.

No way they were still nobodies after helping Shepard defeat Saren. Look at the points that got for Tali and Wrex.

[Shinannigan]

MysticMage44 wrote...

Ash was a b***c the last time I saw here. I understand that shep's actions were shady but going thought the vents of ME1 she should have realized shep was doing what he was doing for a damn good reason.

Plus, she (or Kaidan) would have had the chance to infiltrate Shepard's new team and get to know what exactly he's up to, had they really wanted to investigate the matter, instead of chosing to keep on believing that Shepard's dealings were shady. Sure, it would have required them to interpret their orders (whether they were "find out whether Cerberus/Shepard is up to no good" or "find out who's taking our colonists) somewhat creatively, but would not have been too much of a stretch instead of being good little soldiers and running back to Anderson for a debriefing. Mind you, Shepard didn't uncover Saren's treason (and thus gain entry to the Spectre ranks) or prevent Sovereign's opening of the Citadel Relay by following orders - in fact, he blatantly disobeyed his orders, at least twice and it is that kind of initiative which saved the galaxy and makes Shepard a good soldier.
Kaidan and Ashley have yet to prove that they are anything but - very competent - links within the chain of command. Sure, following orders doesn't disqualify them from Spectre status - politically that kind of behaviour is much more convenient - but I'm sure the council would have been quite happy to know more about Cerberus and Shepard's new mission... a chance which the VS blew by refusing Shepard's offer to join his team.

So, if Kaidan and Ash have been made Spectre so that the Council can keep tabs on Shepard, as has been suggested a couple of times in this thread, they kind of botched it royally. But of course, the VS wasn't yet a Spectre in ME2, so far as we know... but then again, why keep tabs on a man you're bringing in for trial anyway?

[Someone With Mass]

ODST 3 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sounds a little fishy to me. Went from nobodies to Spectres in just over two years? I don't buy that.

No way they were still nobodies after helping Shepard defeat Saren. Look at the points that got for Tali and Wrex.

That still earns them nothing when it comes to the skills a Spectre needs.

[Shinannigan]

Riknas wrote...

Even then, a number of you seem to address the battle of the Citadel as, "Hey now, just because they were there doesn't mean they did a lot," which strikes me as you saying, "I didn't use the VS in my team, so they didn't do a whole lot." Well let me tell you then, I actually used both of my alliance squadmates together all the way up until I had to make a choice, in which case I actually made a separate playthrough to see how both spoke to you.

To which I'd like to clarify, just because you didn't use them, it doesn't meant hat they didn't do anything, or we could say that absolutely no on ine Shepard's team was useful except for the two favorites that you chose to bring on your team for the entirety of the game.

I'm just saying I'd find it somewhat unelegant of Bioware to pick the Citadel as a major reason for their promotion, considering that
1. not every player had them there and
2., far more importantly, the Council did everything to downplay the Battle of the Citadel as an isolated incident, even sending the normandy on a wild goose chase for "remaining geth" just to keep Shepard and his team as far away from politics and public opinion as possible.

Shepard was only promoted to appease humanity and because their was an urgent mission they could send him on. So hopefully, the VS was recruited with a specific first mission in mind as well, but even more hopefully-er, that mission wasn't related to Shepard, whether to bring him in or to keep tabs, because that chance they blew... Unless of course, we find out that it was the Vs who eventually brought in Shepard for trial on earth (at least for those Shepards who were... uninclined... to turn themselves in), but since that would be awkward for a future Squadmate, I highly doubt Bioware will go there.

[mulder1199]

given the possible outcomes surrounding the council in ME1 there's 2 possibles....humans in control, they are obviously going to appoint a few more human spectres....or the original council is throwing humanity a bone to keep udina/anderson from pushing the shep issue...

[Wrathra]

Considering Nihlus tells a sole survivor/colonist Shepard that her knack for survival is one of the things that made her qualified for Spectre status (which really, when worded like that, doesn't make her all that special), I have no problem thinking Kaidan or Ash would qualify. 

Chakwas states that Kaidan has over a dozen special commendations right after the Eden Prime mission, and Shepard says that Ashley's posts are strange considering how high her technical skills are.  The VS isn't an idiot by any stretch of the imagination.

Modifié par Wrathra, 06 septembre 2011 - 05:55 .

[Shinannigan]

jreezy wrote...

If Shepard can become a Spectre in the first few days of reaching the Citadel then Ashley/Kaidan becoming a Spectre in 6 months to a year isn't really a suprise.

If Ashley's father couldn't get rid of the stain on his family's name in the entire run of his service career, then Ashley becoming a Spectre - and thus factually rising beyond the rank of an Alliance Admiral in 6 months to a year is quite a surprise. BAM! Lawyered!

And we mustn't forget that Shepard had been groomed for Spectre status for months, since I'm pretty sure the Alliance only sprung that kind of money for the SR1 with the specific hope of building the vessel of the first human Spectre. Shep was a very conscious choice of the Alliance's most notable politician (Udina), a decorated Admiral (Hackett) and the last human to be considered for Spectre candidacy (Anderson), as evidenced by the conversation at the start of ME1. So Shep had the full backing of the Alliance brass. Ashley has quite the contrary - she's blacklisted. In fact, it might be considered an insult towards the Alliance for the Council to promote the grandchild of the biggest black spot on recent human military history. But of course, it might also be a sign of turian-human cooperation (as also evidenced by the CDN item where Hackett ceded all protests against Turian Dreadnought construction) to promote a Williams to the highest rank. Actually, that's not a bad reason at all, come to think of it... Anyway, it's all politics. Very messy.

But seriously, I agree up to a point. The VS had more than enough time to pull off something noteworthy, but I'd like it to be something independent of Shepard's story, not the things they did (or didn't do) while following Shepard.

[Shinannigan]

mulder1199 wrote...

given the possible outcomes surrounding the council in ME1 there's 2 possibles....humans in control, they are obviously going to appoint a few more human spectres....or the original council is throwing humanity a bone to keep udina/anderson from pushing the shep issue...

There's a third option: Udina as chairman of an all-human Council, who, as we learn from Anderson, likes to keep close tabs on the Spectre rank and certainly has no intent of promoting either Shepard (as evidenced in ME2) or anyone from his troublesome possé to Spectre unless there's some pretty solid reason to do so.

[mulder1199]

Shinannigan wrote...

mulder1199 wrote...

given the possible outcomes surrounding the council in ME1 there's 2 possibles....humans in control, they are obviously going to appoint a few more human spectres....or the original council is throwing humanity a bone to keep udina/anderson from pushing the shep issue...

There's a third option: Udina as chairman of an all-human Council, who, as we learn from Anderson, likes to keep close tabs on the Spectre rank and certainly has no intent of promoting either Shepard (as evidenced in ME2) or anyone from his troublesome possé to Spectre unless there's some pretty solid reason to do so.

I'm assuming that in a Udina rep council....that Williams/Kaiden have been promoted with the understanding that they keep quiet about shep and his doings......

[Wrathra]

Sorry, bored at work.

Shinannigan wrote...

If Ashley's father couldn't get rid of the stain on his family's name in the entire run of his service career, then Ashley becoming a Spectre - and thus factually rising beyond the rank of an Alliance Admiral in 6 months to a year is quite a surprise. BAM! Lawyered!

And we mustn't forget that Shepard had been groomed for Spectre status for months, since I'm pretty sure the Alliance only sprung that kind of money for the SR1 with the specific hope of building the vessel of the first human Spectre. Shep was a very conscious choice of the Alliance's most notable politician (Udina), a decorated Admiral (Hackett) and the last human to be considered for Spectre candidacy (Anderson), as evidenced by the conversation at the start of ME1. So Shep had the full backing of the Alliance brass. Ashley has quite the contrary - she's blacklisted. In fact, it might be considered an insult towards the Alliance for the Council to promote the grandchild of the biggest black spot on recent human military history. But of course, it might also be a sign of turian-human cooperation (as also evidenced by the CDN item where Hackett ceded all protests against Turian Dreadnought construction) to promote a Williams to the highest rank. Actually, that's not a bad reason at all, come to think of it... Anyway, it's all politics. Very messy.

But seriously, I agree up to a point. The VS had more than enough time to pull off something noteworthy, but I'd like it to be something independent of Shepard's story, not the things they did (or didn't do) while following Shepard.

I'm being nitpicky, I'm sorry... and I only know this because I recently replayed ME1.

The Normandy was slated for the 63rd Scout Flotilla after shakedown, according to Rear Admiral Mikhailovich.  He was pretty pissed off that the council wound up with it.

[LOLandStuff]

I'd be really pissed to find out they've been handed my Normandy since it's Alliance now just because they're Spectres. I'm ok with them being Spectres as long as they know their place.

[Shinannigan]

Wrathra wrote...

I'm being nitpicky, I'm sorry... and I only know this because I recently replayed ME1.

The Normandy was slated for the 63rd Scout Flotilla after shakedown, according to Rear Admiral Mikhailovich.  He was pretty pissed off that the council wound up with it.

I know, but that doesn't change my thinking the SR1 was actually intended to be the flagship of humanity's flagship, i.e. the ommand vessel of humanity's first Spectre.
But you always have to have a backup plan - and an official line as well. The Alliance's joint military commissions council can't very well write in their books "several gazillion credits for the first human Spectre's shiny new ship" if there is no such thing as a first human Spectre (yet), especially since the Turians were involved in the construction and probably would have wanted to know where this top-of-the-line prototype is going to end up. So officially, the SR1 was built for the 63rd Scout flotilla - but I'm sure the Alliance always intended to requisition it for the first human Spectre, which is why the most current candidate was based off that vessel during his screening with Nihlus.

[Shinannigan]

jreezy wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...

I'd be really pissed to find out they've been handed my Normandy since it's Alliance now just because they're Spectres. I'm ok with them being Spectres as long as they know their place.

In my file I'm still a Spectre so I'm sure they'll know their place. Even if I wasn't they have to realize that Shepard is a lot more capable than they are, it's only right that he be in charge of the Normandy, regardless of rank.

I don't think rank will be a problem in ME3. It already seems like Kaidan now outranks Shepard within the Alliance command structure anyway, plus he's equal in rank within the Spectres. But regardless that Shepard is no longer the only human Spectre (or any Spectre, depending on your playthrough), he's still the only living being with the ability to understand Prothean fluently thanks to the Cipher - plus he has that whole Consort's trinket storyline connected to the Prothean interest in humanity (as seen in ME1's side mission with the glowing silver orb, which we've already seen make a return in one of the ME3 screenshots). I'm pretty sure those things will be much more important to ME3's story and to stopping the Reapers than any question of rank.

[BatmanPWNS]

Despite me killing Kaidan I would like to see how different he has become. Can he lead a team? Also I wonder if the VS are willing to get their hands dirty now since thats basically the main purpose of the Spectre.

[Shinannigan]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Despite me killing Kaidan I would like to see how different he has become. Can he lead a team? Also I wonder if the VS are willing to get their hands dirty now since thats basically the main purpose of the Spectre.

Amen! Kaiden should have team-leading skills considering he was an officer long before he became a Spectre, in fact, that's why he survived in all of my playthroughs except for my worst-case-renegade. Sorry Ashley, but my Commander Shepards will pick the biotic/tech-expert officer over the gun-totin' NCO any time.

But it's the hands-dirty part which I'm very interested in seeing.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Well my Normandy got a favorable write up by the Admiral. 1/2 the Horizon colony survived. My Shep is still a Spectre. And after seeing Liara at work in LotSB on that boss fight if Ash gave her any sh** she'd slap her a** with a singularity. Liara just kept that rogue Spectre in stasis preventing her from jumping around, and Shep hit her point blank with Inferno Ammo and the Revenant + Adrenaline Rush. It was over fast. Liara is now a bada**.

Seriously either one of the VS survivors could be considered for Spectre status even with a non-human led council. They will want more humans in the Spectres, not just to throw a bone. I'm sure once either of them see what's going on behind the scenes their tune will change. They will see the world not so black and white.