430 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

Golden Owl wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

And where does being your own boss translate to being able to inspire and coordinate others?  Some can excel at managing their own time and total fall apart in a group.  Feels like you're grasping at straws now.

At straws? What straws? Are you denying that Spectres need to be their own boss?

Ashley doesn't speak with confidence. She doesn't illicit respect. Spectres need to be able to assert their authority without just drawing a gun.

This...Neither Ash or Kaidan really have what it takes.

  What makes you say that?

[Iakus]

ubermensch007 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Are you just going to spam the thread with campaigning for other characters to become Spectres? Well, it's a bit too late for you to even hope to have an effect, and it's also annoying, so please knock it the hell off.

No I'm not going to "spam"... this thread.Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it about the next human Spectre.It has not to my knowledge been confirmed by BioWare that the Virmire Survivor is a Spectre.(Maybe I missed that though)

I am merely stating that I think that there are two other humans in the Mass Effect Universe, who would make far better Spectre canidates than either Kaidan or Ashley....

Someone here has the word "VERSIMILITUDE" in their signature: I get this... Why my first two post in this thread are here.Is in part to show my reasons for why if the Virmire Survivor is a Spectre in ME 3.While Operative Jacob Taylor and Miranda Lawson are around.

I will not be able to "supspend my disbelief"  on that one... <_< Because the idea that the VS is more Spectre qualified than Jacob or Miranda is just preposterous !   I won't be able to take either Kai or Ash seriously as a Spectre...

Because we know that being made a Spectre is at least partly political in nature, whatever the lofty words of teh Council are.  Shepard becoming a Spectre was as much a political move to placate teh Alliance as it was about his/her skills.

Thus whatever skills Miranda has, there is no way the Alliance is going to put forth a Cerberus operative's name as a Spectre candidate (assuming she'd even want the job) and Jacob's accomplishments were largely swept under the rug.  He's a forgotten hero the Alliance and Council would rather ignore.  Plus he's with Cerberus now too.

They may have the skills, but not the patronage/conncections needed for such a lofty position.  Ash and Kaidan do, both throguh their affiliation with Shepard, the first human Specter, and through Anderson's patronage.

[marshalleck]

iakus wrote...

They may have the skills, but not the patronage/conncections needed for such a lofty position.  Ash and Kaidan do, both throguh their affiliation with Shepard, the first human Specter, and through Anderson's patronage.

And our Commander-in-Chief bossman himself, Udina, who makes the call!

[Golden Owl]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

And where does being your own boss translate to being able to inspire and coordinate others?  Some can excel at managing their own time and total fall apart in a group.  Feels like you're grasping at straws now.

At straws? What straws? Are you denying that Spectres need to be their own boss?

Ashley doesn't speak with confidence. She doesn't illicit respect. Spectres need to be able to assert their authority without just drawing a gun.

This...Neither Ash or Kaidan really have what it takes.

  What makes you say that?

In all honesty....

Ash: Too emotionally reactive and too quick to jumb to conclusions....I don't believe she would be able to keep her cool enough to deal approbriately with the more diplomatically delicate situations a Spectre encounters...and so thus, this also weakens her ability to be a voice of authority...way too reactive.

Kaidan: Simply put...too nice and malleable...I doubt he could make the hard decisions and could be too easily swayed....I like Kaidan, but I don't think he could stand under too much heat.

[The-Person]

We will probably get an explanation as to what they did to become Spectres. Probably something they did during the time they were not with Shepard.

[The-Person]

Golden Owl wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

And where does being your own boss translate to being able to inspire and coordinate others?  Some can excel at managing their own time and total fall apart in a group.  Feels like you're grasping at straws now.

At straws? What straws? Are you denying that Spectres need to be their own boss?

Ashley doesn't speak with confidence. She doesn't illicit respect. Spectres need to be able to assert their authority without just drawing a gun.

This...Neither Ash or Kaidan really have what it takes.

  What makes you say that?

In all honesty....

Ash: Too emotionally reactive and too quick to jumb to conclusions....I don't believe she would be able to keep her cool enough to deal approbriately with the more diplomatically delicate situations a Spectre encounters...and so thus, this also weakens her ability to be a voice of authority...way too reactive.

Kaidan: Simply put...too nice and malleable...I doubt he could make the hard decisions and could be too easily swayed....I like Kaidan, but I don't think he could stand under too much heat.

You just described both paragon and renegade Shepards.

[marshalleck]

Eh, they could very well be political appointments. Humanity needs a posterchild Spectre, and both Ashley and Kaidan are known quantities. They could be appointed and then handed softball assignments, like overseeing laser turret installations in backwater colonies.

[lazuli]

marshalleck wrote...

Eh, they could very well be political appointments. Humanity needs a posterchild Spectre, and both Ashley and Kaidan are known quantities. They could be appointed and then handed softball assignments, like overseeing laser turret installations in backwater colonies.

Perhaps, though the Illusive Man was behind Kaidan/Ashley being on Horizon, and as far as I know they aren't Spectres at that point.

[marshalleck]

Well, Horizon was just a tangible example of what I meant by softball assignment. They were there on Anderson's orders and I'm pretty sure as well that they were not Spectres then.

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 septembre 2011 - 04:57 .

[Golden Owl]

The-Person wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

And where does being your own boss translate to being able to inspire and coordinate others?  Some can excel at managing their own time and total fall apart in a group.  Feels like you're grasping at straws now.

At straws? What straws? Are you denying that Spectres need to be their own boss?

Ashley doesn't speak with confidence. She doesn't illicit respect. Spectres need to be able to assert their authority without just drawing a gun.

This...Neither Ash or Kaidan really have what it takes.

  What makes you say that?

In all honesty....

Ash: Too emotionally reactive and too quick to jumb to conclusions....I don't believe she would be able to keep her cool enough to deal approbriately with the more diplomatically delicate situations a Spectre encounters...and so thus, this also weakens her ability to be a voice of authority...way too reactive.

Kaidan: Simply put...too nice and malleable...I doubt he could make the hard decisions and could be too easily swayed....I like Kaidan, but I don't think he could stand under too much heat.

You just described both paragon and renegade Shepards.

I was wondering if someone would say this...I should have added my thoughts on this in my above post...I don't believe I have descibed the Paragon and Renegade....

The Renegade isn't driven by emotional reaction like Ash is and is more capable of keeping their cool in such situations...using 'intimidation' granted, but still manages to maintain with added strength in fact, the ability to act on logic, not emotion...there's a big difference.

As for the Paragon...yes, the paragon is a nice guy, but he is still able to hold his ground despite any resistance...he doesn't share Kaidan's malleable-ness...he is able to still make the hard decisions despite his nice-ist appeal....basically, his not as nice and sweet as Kaidan.

[Iakus]

Golden Owl wrote...

In all honesty....

Ash: Too emotionally reactive and too quick to jumb to conclusions....I don't believe she would be able to keep her cool enough to deal approbriately with the more diplomatically delicate situations a Spectre encounters...and so thus, this also weakens her ability to be a voice of authority...way too reactive.

Kaidan: Simply put...too nice and malleable...I doubt he could make the hard decisions and could be too easily swayed....I like Kaidan, but I don't think he could stand under too much heat.

Kaidan would be more appropriate to send into diplomatic situations where a deft touch is needed.  While Ash would be more appropriate to send to an ****kicking competition and lay down the law.  

Different skillsets fro different situations.

[Golden Owl]

iakus wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

In all honesty....

Ash: Too emotionally reactive and too quick to jumb to conclusions....I don't believe she would be able to keep her cool enough to deal approbriately with the more diplomatically delicate situations a Spectre encounters...and so thus, this also weakens her ability to be a voice of authority...way too reactive.

Kaidan: Simply put...too nice and malleable...I doubt he could make the hard decisions and could be too easily swayed....I like Kaidan, but I don't think he could stand under too much heat.

Kaidan would be more appropriate to send into diplomatic situations where a deft touch is needed.  While Ash would be more appropriate to send to an ****kicking competition and lay down the law.  

Different skillsets fro different situations.

Yes....but they can't combine into one Spectre....together they would rock, seperate they don't cut it.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 09 septembre 2011 - 05:12 .

[Iakus]

Golden Owl wrote...

iakus wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

In all honesty....

Ash: Too emotionally reactive and too quick to jumb to conclusions....I don't believe she would be able to keep her cool enough to deal approbriately with the more diplomatically delicate situations a Spectre encounters...and so thus, this also weakens her ability to be a voice of authority...way too reactive.

Kaidan: Simply put...too nice and malleable...I doubt he could make the hard decisions and could be too easily swayed....I like Kaidan, but I don't think he could stand under too much heat.

Kaidan would be more appropriate to send into diplomatic situations where a deft touch is needed.  While Ash would be more appropriate to send to an ****kicking competition and lay down the law.  

Different skillsets fro different situations.

Yes....but they can't combine into one Spectre....together they would rock, seperate they don't cut it.

It's like I said, the Council has Spectres for many different purposes, with many different skillsets.  They probably get assignments based on what those talents are.

There's probably a reason why we haven't seen a Salarian Spectre so far, for example.  They probably specialize in "behind the scenes" jobs where you never know they were there (assuming they were successful)

[Killjoy Cutter]

OK, I just reran the opening of ME, and it's pretty clear that Shep was singled out for membership. Nihlus was one of Shep's "nominators" from what he says on the Normandy.

[The-Person]

Golden Owl wrote...

The-Person wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

And where does being your own boss translate to being able to inspire and coordinate others?  Some can excel at managing their own time and total fall apart in a group.  Feels like you're grasping at straws now.

At straws? What straws? Are you denying that Spectres need to be their own boss?

Ashley doesn't speak with confidence. She doesn't illicit respect. Spectres need to be able to assert their authority without just drawing a gun.

This...Neither Ash or Kaidan really have what it takes.

  What makes you say that?

In all honesty....

Ash: Too emotionally reactive and too quick to jumb to conclusions....I don't believe she would be able to keep her cool enough to deal approbriately with the more diplomatically delicate situations a Spectre encounters...and so thus, this also weakens her ability to be a voice of authority...way too reactive.

Kaidan: Simply put...too nice and malleable...I doubt he could make the hard decisions and could be too easily swayed....I like Kaidan, but I don't think he could stand under too much heat.

You just described both paragon and renegade Shepards.

I was wondering if someone would say this...I should have added my thoughts on this in my above post...I don't believe I have descibed the Paragon and Renegade....

The Renegade isn't driven by emotional reaction like Ash is and is more capable of keeping their cool in such situations...using 'intimidation' granted, but still manages to maintain with added strength in fact, the ability to act on logic, not emotion...there's a big difference.

As for the Paragon...yes, the paragon is a nice guy, but he is still able to hold his ground despite any resistance...he doesn't share Kaidan's malleable-ness...he is able to still make the hard decisions despite his nice-ist appeal....basically, his not as nice and sweet as Kaidan.

How can you say Kaiden can't make hard decisions when he was never show in a position where he had to make a decision? Where has it been show that Ashley is driven by emortion, because she is passionate about her viewpoints? That does not make people impulsive. She is never shown in the game where she is impulsive. Also what is logical about punching a reporter?

Modifié par The-Person, 09 septembre 2011 - 05:48 .

[TuringPoint]

You see, ironically, some of that assertiveness in ME2. Albeit, speaking 'against' Shepard's actions. Also in the fact they are given license to act almost entirely on their own as an agent for the Alliance.

[1136342t54_]

iakus wrote...

Not really.  It's a pretty good, if rather basic, summary of their personalities.

One thing, though:  If you romance them, you can make Kaidan more renegade and Ash more paragon.  I wonder if that's taken into account in ME3?

Actually that's not too accurate. Kaidan is still paragon he would just leam more on the side of pro human. It wouldn't make him shoot first ask questions later.

Ashley can be convinced to be less pro human but again it doesn't make her less likely to blow your brains out.

[1136342t54_]

Golden Owl wrote...You just described both paragon and renegade Shepards.
I was wondering if someone would say this...I should have added my thoughts on this in my above post...I don't believe I have descibed the Paragon and Renegade....

The Renegade isn't driven by emotional reaction like Ash is and is more capable of keeping their cool in such situations...using 'intimidation' granted, but still manages to maintain with added strength in fact, the ability to act on logic, not emotion...there's a big difference.

Describe a situation that shows Ashley makes her decisions due to emotions? Don't use that Horizon situation. At that point yes she was hurt but her report basically tells Anderson and the SA that Shepard isn't a traitor and is only working with Cerberus. Hell her view on the Council races is rather pragmatic. 

As for the Paragon...yes, the paragon is a nice guy, but he is still able to hold his ground despite any resistance...he doesn't share Kaidan's malleable-ness...he is able to still make the hard decisions despite his nice-ist appeal....basically, his not as nice and sweet as Kaidan.

Give an example on how Kaidan is very malleable. The only time Kaidan changes his views at least a little is if Shepard convinces him. This is the same Shepard who can talk Saren into killing himself. 

[Dean_the_Young]

[quote]capn233 wrote...

Correlation?  Sure there is a correlation that 100% of the Spectres were considered qualified by the councils and the races they were drafted from.  He wouldn't have been selected if he weren't qualified.  They weren't advancing names of unqualified people to the council.  And clearly the whole point of having an active Spectre evaluate Anderson and then Shepard was to verify that they had what it took to become one.[/quote]You missed a left turn at Alberkirky. You aren't even disagreeing with me any more.

[quote]
You mean one other one as far as we know, Anderson.  Who was then deamed not qualified by the Council.[/quote]Because of sabatoge by Saren, his evaluator. There's also both Ashley and Kaiden.
[quote][quote][/quote]That's actually speculation in that we don't actually know anything about other people that they may have been discussin before the intro starts.  [/quote]No, it's pretty basic fact. We know by the fact that Ash and Kaiden are deemed acceptable for Spectre status that they, not to be redundant, are acceptable Spectre candidates. Why didn't they get the first Spectre slot, and Shepard did? Because Shepard had political notice and weight.


[quote]So I guess in your copy of ME Shepard went to get a soda, then the council gave into the Alliance and made a token Spectre out of Shepard.[/quote]No, and that really has nothing to do with what I said. You're neither disproving my point or proving another.
[quote]
[quote]Fortunately, no one is saying that.[/quote]
Really? [/quote]Yup.
[quote]So saying the only reason he was appointed was politics does not negate other reasons for appointment?[/quote]Nope.

Duh.



[quote]
He was convenient?  How exactly? [/quote]Shepard is a person who can fit a pre-existing desire of the Alliance.

[quote]
How does his history only make him politically convenient?[/quote]Who said only?

[quote] And you imply they don't care how well he will do as Spectre... that might as well be selecting someone at random. [/quote]No, I don't. You're assigning that position to me.

[quote]It was politics that they made a human a Spectre, or considered doing it.  That doesn't mean that selecting Shepard was simply politics or even simply convenient which is your whole argument.[/quote]No, it isn't my whole argument.

[quote]
So his value went up because he proved Saren was a traitor, but not because he proved Saren was a traitor.[/quote]Your repeat yourself, but no. That's not what I was saying.[quote]All together that comes off as utter nonsense.  You are essentially claiming Shepard was made Spectre because he happened to be on the Citadel after Saren was exposed... and that the Council did not care about his previous history.  And they weren't just "different missions."  If not for Shepard's involvement at Eden Prime, there would have been no attempt to expose Saren.
[/quote]Uh, no. I am not claiming that position, nor am I denying that the Council or Alliance cares about his prior history. Infact, if you payed attention, I'm saying that the Alliance and Council very much cares about his prior history... in part because of politics.

It's not hard, if you stop making up positions others haven't made when you're confused.

[Dean_the_Young]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I'll have to do the start of ME again or find a youtube clip.  I recall them talking about what a perfect candidate Shep would be for Spectre. 

When you do, be sure to play long enough until Anderson talks about having a Spectre has been a long-standing Alliance political goal.

[ubermensch007]

iakus wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

iakus wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

In all honesty....

Ash: Too emotionally reactive and too quick to jumb to conclusions....I don't believe she would be able to keep her cool enough to deal approbriately with the more diplomatically delicate situations a Spectre encounters...and so thus, this also weakens her ability to be a voice of authority...way too reactive.

Kaidan: Simply put...too nice and malleable...I doubt he could make the hard decisions and could be too easily swayed....I like Kaidan, but I don't think he could stand under too much heat.

Kaidan would be more appropriate to send into diplomatic situations where a deft touch is needed.  While Ash would be more appropriate to send to an ****kicking competition and lay down the law.  

Different skillsets fro different situations.

Yes....but they can't combine into one Spectre....together they would rock, seperate they don't cut it.

It's like I said, the Council has Spectres for many different purposes, with many different skillsets.  They probably get assignments based on what those talents are.

There's probably a reason why we haven't seen a Salarian Spectre so far, for example.  They probably specialize in "behind the scenes" jobs where you never know they were there (assuming they were successful)

The Cerberus Daily news speaks of a salarian Spectre that supposedly tried to take out Sonax Industries' Lira Speight. We might meet him or her in ME 3.

Modifié par ubermensch007, 11 septembre 2011 - 05:08 .

[AlexXIV]

I'd buy Ash as a Spectre, Kaiden not so much. He seemed a bit whiney, even for a regular soldier.

And btw. Spectres ain't diplomats. That's what you have politicians for. Spectres step in when diplomacy failed.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 11 septembre 2011 - 06:33 .

[Made Nightwing]

Regardless of anyone's opinion, they're still going to be Spectres in ME3. So...

[Made Nightwing]

AlexXIV wrote...

I'd buy Ash as a Spectre, Kaiden not so much. He seemed a bit whiney, even for a regular soldier.

I think Kaidan would be a more diplomatic Spectre, sent in to try and defuse a situation, but still capable of deconstructing an enemy force with extreme prejudice.

[AlexXIV]

Made Nightwing wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I'd buy Ash as a Spectre, Kaiden not so much. He seemed a bit whiney, even for a regular soldier.

I think Kaidan would be a more diplomatic Spectre, sent in to try and defuse a situation, but still capable of deconstructing an enemy force with extreme prejudice.

Just changed my post. Yes I think Kaiden would be a great diplomat, even a proper military superior as colonel or even general/admiral, but spectre? Spectres are the toughest guys you can find in the galaxy and Kaiden is just not. My opinion of course.