162 réponses à ce sujet

[G. Recruit]

The author sounds a bit arrogant in my opinion. That is all I can say.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

1. No mention of Metal Gear Solid (PS1)?  That game set the standard for stories in video games.  I love Solid Snake, in a heterosexual way.

2. IGN sucks.  They have very poor taste.  I used to go there all the time, but now I only go there for three things: previews, release dates, and footage (screens and videos).

[Fiery Phoenix]

I have no idea why he thought BioShock had a decent story. Dead Space is a much more powerful series storywise.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 07 septembre 2011 - 06:27 .

[Therefore_I_Am]

You can't spell ignorant without IGN.

[Notlikeyoucare]

IGN are idiots. Deus Ex blows all of them out of the water. Although Uncharted 2 is still very VERY good.

[Hennex]

What the hell did I just read? Someone's going to recieve a lot of hate mail over the next few days.

[Major Alenko]

why is everyone going crazy about defending Mass Effect 2? Come on guys we all know it has zero plot and story is laughable at best. I think the article is pretty good, it highlights what is usually overlooked. Mass Effect 2 at its core is just a collection of missions then the boss fight at the end, if anyone suggesting otherwise then they are seriously deluded... Does this make Mass Effect 2 a bad game? No, I love it. But the story is weak compared to Mass Effect 1. But I will say that I have high hopes for Mass Effect 3's story.

[Mister Mida]

This article makes zero sense to me.

[TobyHasEyes]

Does smack of someone yearning to sound intelligent; all you can take from it is that a story (or whatever you call it) is more satisfying when there is a character arc

That and his claims that all humans, despite individual differences, are united by stories, is both spurious and lame beyond belief

[Wulfram]

Xarathox wrote...

The die/ressurect 2 year time skip would've worked better if it had been implemented at the end of ME1, not the start of ME2. That was a horrible oversight, as the effect was immensely cheapened.

No.  I my games to have endings, not silly cliffhangers.

[azerSheppard]

Reads IGN
Laughs
Leaves

[JediHealerCosmin]

Confidence born of IGNorance. Sovereign is not pleased. 

[Comsky159]

In Portal we become enraptured by the plot and characters as we listen to the storyteller, which is similar (though certainly not identical) to books in terms of reader response.

Alternatively, hyper-narratives like Mass Effect differ from traditional literature only in that we no longer sit quietly and listen, rather we become integral to plot formation and in our minds become a partial storyteller. RPG's sacrifice the joy of rapture for the joy of agency/creation.

The writer here is mistaken in that he implies the amelioration of the story-telling complex, whereas actually our role in the telling of the story has simply been shifted. Instead of observing we work in conjunction with a remarkable mediating mechanism created by the developer operating between the readerly and the writerly, shedding blood, sweat and tears through gameplay as we flesh out a story which we know would not have existed if we were not there pushing the buttons.

We become immersed, new authors engaging in the creation of belief rather than the traditional suspension of belief. While our role is a little elusive and perhaps can even be seen as a fallacy from a position of unimmersed objectivity, this is certainly how people feel about their narrative position when playing RPGs.

Ultimately he presents an interesting idea but honestly it's a little too simply put and poorly thought out for my tastes.

[Comsky159]

Commodore Q wrote...

why is everyone going crazy about defending Mass Effect 2? Come on guys we all know it has zero plot and story is laughable at best. I think the article is pretty good, it highlights what is usually overlooked. Mass Effect 2 at its core is just a collection of missions then the boss fight at the end, if anyone suggesting otherwise then they are seriously deluded... Does this make Mass Effect 2 a bad game? No, I love it. But the story is weak compared to Mass Effect 1. But I will say that I have high hopes for Mass Effect 3's story.

You've obviously just twisted what he said for your own agenda. This article is not about how much better ME1 is than ME2, he's discussing the limitations in narrative capacity applicable to role-playing games.

Then again he doesn't make his point very clear, it's more ranting than speculative/analytical writing.

Modifié par Comsky159, 07 septembre 2011 - 12:36 .

[Il Divo]

Comsky159 wrote...

Commodore Q wrote...

why is everyone going crazy about defending Mass Effect 2? Come on guys we all know it has zero plot and story is laughable at best. I think the article is pretty good, it highlights what is usually overlooked. Mass Effect 2 at its core is just a collection of missions then the boss fight at the end, if anyone suggesting otherwise then they are seriously deluded... Does this make Mass Effect 2 a bad game? No, I love it. But the story is weak compared to Mass Effect 1. But I will say that I have high hopes for Mass Effect 3's story.

You've obviously just twisted what he said for your own agenda. This article is not about how much better ME1 is than ME2, he's discussing the limitations in narrative capacity applicable to role-playing games.

Then again he doesn't make his point very clear, it's more ranting than speculative/analytical writing.

This. Aside from a brief mention, Mass Effect 2 isn't even the focus of this article. It's just a complete mess.

[Someone With Mass]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

I have no idea why he thought BioShock had a decent story. Dead Space is a much more powerful series storywise.

It also pretty much killed the anticipation for a sequel with its ending, which made Bioshock 2 seem like a pretty bland expansion to me.

I tend to not take to what IGNorant says about anything, since they tend to make a huge deal out of anything because they're apparently really easy to impress and becomes incredibly biased towards something.

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

I don't think many BSN posters regularly read books Games don't have "stories", the author is absolutely right in that regard (though I don't agree what he said about the games he mentioned in the article). Games are pure entertainment, they use Hollywood-style "story telling" - comes down to the good guys win, the bad guys lose, and all the nice people live happily ever after. That's not a story in my book (a poor kidstory at the very best).

Maybe someone has heard about (or even read) Harriet Beecher Stowe "Uncle Tom's Cabin", to give an example of a "real" or a "good" story. This story is not really about Tom, he is used to tell (or better, teach) people about slavery. This story has played a crucial part in ending slavery and to quote Lincoln when he met her: "So this is the little lady who started this great war." (the US Civil War).

Can someone name one game, just one, that has some impact on the greater sheme of things? A game with a "message", a game that makes you think about more serious stuff than "Am I going to kill the next enemy with my chainsaw or machine gun?" I've never played a game like that.

The IGN author didn't build a strong case, but I agree with his main point - completely - the stories being told in game are crap (which doesn't mean those games are not fun to play btw).

[Il Divo]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

I don't think many BSN posters regularly read books Games don't have "stories", the author is absolutely right in that regard (though I don't agree what he said about the games he mentioned in the article). Games are pure entertainment, they use Hollywood-style "story telling" - comes down to the good guys win, the bad guys lose, and all the nice people live happily ever after. That's not a story in my book (a poor kidstory at the very best).

Maybe someone has heard about (or even read) Harriet Beecher Stowe "Uncle Tom's Cabin", to give an example of a "real" or a "good" story. This story is not really about Tom, he is used to tell (or better, teach) people about slavery. This story has played a crucial part in ending slavery and to quote Lincoln when he met her: "So this is the little lady who started this great war." (the US Civil War).

Can someone name one game, just one, that has some impact on the greater sheme of things? A game with a "message", a game that makes you think about more serious stuff than "Am I going to kill the next enemy with my chainsaw or machine gun?" I've never played a game like that.

The IGN author didn't build a strong case, but I agree with his main point - completely - the stories being told in game are crap (which doesn't mean those games are not fun to play btw).

1. Legacy of Kain, excluding Blood Omen 2.

2. Bioshock

3. Any conversation with Kreia, from KotOR 2

4. Planescape Torment

I could continue.

Edit: I should also point out that some of the best forms of entertainment haven't been about "impact in the greater scheme of things". The Godfather is considered one of the greatest films ever made, but it doesn't touch on slavery (as you mentioned), or philosophical concepts, etc. It's possible to comprehend the storyline with a single viewing. It's just really well-done. But when playing all of the above listed games, it was about more than just when I could kill the next enemy.

Modifié par Il Divo, 07 septembre 2011 - 01:04 .

[Whatever42]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...

I don't think many BSN posters regularly read books Games don't have "stories", the author is absolutely right in that regard (though I don't agree what he said about the games he mentioned in the article). Games are pure entertainment, they use Hollywood-style "story telling" - comes down to the good guys win, the bad guys lose, and all the nice people live happily ever after. That's not a story in my book (a poor kidstory at the very best).

Maybe someone has heard about (or even read) Harriet Beecher Stowe "Uncle Tom's Cabin", to give an example of a "real" or a "good" story. This story is not really about Tom, he is used to tell (or better, teach) people about slavery. This story has played a crucial part in ending slavery and to quote Lincoln when he met her: "So this is the little lady who started this great war." (the US Civil War).

Can someone name one game, just one, that has some impact on the greater sheme of things? A game with a "message", a game that makes you think about more serious stuff than "Am I going to kill the next enemy with my chainsaw or machine gun?" I've never played a game like that.

The IGN author didn't build a strong case, but I agree with his main point - completely - the stories being told in game are crap (which doesn't mean those games are not fun to play btw).

Sure, DA2 had a real story. It was a game with a message. It had real characters and real character development. It had meaningful events that impacted the characters and their relationships with each other. We can debate the quality of the story but it was very certainly a story.

Sure, it was still about a lot of moments to go kill something. Video games will never be war and peace, for which I'm grateful, but I think it was most definitely a story.

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

Il Divo wrote...

1. Legacy of Kain, excluding Blood Omen 2.

2. Bioshock

3. Any conversation with Kreia, from KotOR 2

4. Planescape Torment

I could continue.

Edit: I should also point out that some of the best forms of entertainment haven't been about "impact in the greater scheme of things". The Godfather is considered one of the greatest films ever made, but it doesn't touch on slavery (as you mentioned), or philosophical concepts, etc. It's possible to comprehend the storyline with a single viewing.

Entertainment  =/=  story telling. All those games you've mentioned don't have multiple layers in their story, at the very best, they have slightly interesting characters. Do you think one of those games' (or the Godfather) "story" would be on the lips of the literature community? I seriously doubt that. 

[Il Divo]

Bozorgmehr 2.0 wrote...


Entertainment  =/=  story telling.

Agreed. 
 

All those games you've mentioned don't have multiple layers in their story, at the very best, they have slightly interesting characters. 

That you consider the characters 'slightly interesting' is a sentiment I would disagree with.

Do you think one of those games' (or the Godfather) "story" would be on the lips of the literature community? I seriously doubt that. 

That depends: has the literary community ever played any of those games?

One of your points was about video games simply being about "killing people" and that they disregard "serious stuff". I disagreed and illustrated multiple examples for you. Bioshock, for example, explores the philosophy of Ayn Rand. Planescape Torment explores questions about identity, death, and the self (and includes some of the best dialogue in any genre I've seen). You wanted examples of games where the purpose was something more than killing things. I have provided several.

Or would you say that the Godfather is merely an excuse to watch mobsters to engage in excessive violence? It doesn't nullify the great esteem with which many hold the film.

Modifié par Il Divo, 07 septembre 2011 - 01:11 .

[Wulfram]

ME 2 is more a bunch of short stories strung together with an overarching plot. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

ME1 is a pretty coherent story if you focus on the main plot. Though to an extent this is a problem - it often feels wrong to go off and do the sidequests.