394 réponses à ce sujet

[marlowwe]

Gabochido wrote...
For those of you still reading... I have a couple of questions for those willing to submit more feedback: Do you know how long you took to finish each of the main quests in the game? Do you feel that an average DLC module should be around equal what these quests take?

I timed myself after doing Redcliff and it took me, on average, 8-10 hours to do one "main quest" (i.e. Dalish Elves, Orzamar, Redcliff etc...). This includes a fairly thorough playthrough, not skipping anything and doing any side quests in that area. I believe any post-release content should AT THE MINIMUM be at least as long as a main quest i.e. more than 8 hours. I would say $10-$12 would be a reasonable price for this content.

Also, I can't stress "at the minimum" enough

Modifié par marlowwe, 22 novembre 2009 - 05:00 .

[Viskharn]

I agree, DLC is a way in which developers can produce "mini-expansions" without having to wait half a year to release new content. I think the way the world is going these days is with DLC over expansions. It simply makes sense.



In saying that however, i still believe they need to look at how much they are charging for how much content they release, its a fine line.

[DJoker35]

Gabochido wrote...

For those of you still reading... I have a couple of questions for those willing to submit more feedback: Do you know how long you took to finish each of the main quests in the game? Do you feel that an average DLC module should be around equal what these quests take?

Gosh, for each part? A couple of hours or so, with dialogue, cutscenes, codexes, and pausing. More than a couple hours. My first playthru, without sidequests, was about 60 hours.

I think as long as the DLC is a purely optional sidequest, such as Warden's Keep, with some decent fights and rewards, then the time is about right. Especially for 5-7 bucks.

Length wise, I think the Shale quest was the perfect blend of time and reward, and I would have paid for it as a DLC had it not been included for free in with my game copy. But that quest also tied more directly into the main story, with a new party member added, so the impact was greater.

Honestly, I think you're on the right track with the small, single adventure, optional extra content DLC. I look forward to longer and deeper DLC as well, and realize that with the increased rescources necessary for that, the cost will be greater.

It's my hope that the interest and profitablilty in DLC will spur you to create a large expansion or sequal at some point.

[HighlandBerserkr]

I love DLC, none of the games i play feel incomplete without it, but they do add to the shelf life of my games and that a big plus in my books, especially when i love a game as much as Dragon Age, i want to spend as much time in the world as possible.

[Descedent]

I believe after we went through all the shortness of Bethesda's DLCs that cost 800 pts each, it left a lot to be desired far as spending that money for a couple hours of play.



With Bioware I LOVED warden's keep it is by far one of my favorite things in DA and by far the best experience of any DLC I have ever bought for any game. I simply loved it, but yet again it was short for my 7$. Only took me about an hr and half.



Considering I spent money on a collectors edition and got 40+hrs of main story gameplay. 7$ fora bout and hr of game play is overpriced in my opinion. 3$ would have been more appropriate pricing.



I'm glad stone prisoner was included and I didn't have to pay for it on top of my 70$ CE

[HighlandBerserkr]

Any forum where someone mentions Oblivion i must mention how much i hae that game:P (my new rule, just made it up:P)

[dmhalsey]

I don't know for sure how long it took to finish any of the main quests. I was having too much fun. If you made DLC with that length and quality it would be orgasmic. I would like to say thank you for a great game.

[LaztRezort]

Gabochido wrote...
For those of you still reading... I have a couple of questions for those willing to submit more feedback: Do you know how long you took to finish each of the main quests in the game? Do you feel that an average DLC module should be around equal what these quests take?

I would estimate the Dalish quest (which I found the shortest) to have probably been 6 hours or so (along with all sidequests).

As to the question of fair DLC, it's not a simple answer for me since I value quality over quantity.  The bulk of the main game, is IMO, of outstanding quality.  Add to that the sheer amount of quantity, and it seems the bar has been raised rather high.  I'm afraid any smallish expansion, no matter the price, may disappoint my heightened expectations.  But, I'll keep an open mind, and perhaps try DLC sometime in the future.

[eriaa]

Gabochido wrote...

For those of you still reading... I have a couple of questions for those willing to submit more feedback: Do you know how long you took to finish each of the main quests in the game? Do you feel that an average DLC module should be around equal what these quests take?

It took several hours for each one. It really depends on how many of the side quest you did, and if you read all the codex entries and such. I would say an avg. player could get through those areas in about 5-6 hours.

For Wardens Keep, I read every codex entry, and fully explored everywhere I could, and it took me about an hour to complete. Of course, I can play through it again, make different choices, and get more value from it.

Stone Prisoner I feel is on a different level because you get a new companion. That adds a lot of content because he will interact will other party members, and Shale also has his own quest. However, the quest to get Shale, took around 45 mins.

I think they could be a little bit longer, around 2-3 hours I think would be good. I don't know the cost of making one of these, the voice overs alone could be a lot, I don't know. However, if you are going to ask 5-7 dollars for a DLC pack, it should give me an evenings worth of entertainment. A movie cost around that, maybe a bit more, which will give me that amount of entertainment. That's what I would like to see. I would have no issues paying 5-7 dollars if I knew it would occupy me for a night.

I don't know how much resources go into a patch for an MMO, but people are more than willing to pay 15 dollars a month to play those, and they don't even get monthly patches. Part of that 15 dollars however goes toward server maintance and customer support. So I think 5-7 is a fair price, but like I said, it should occupy me for an entire evening.

[gobslat]

I dont think you have to download the content but personally I was saddened by the timing of its relase and biowares use of micro-transactions (which is what it basically is).

I dont like having these little extra purchasable probucts i think it is disrespectful, if not explotative, of your fan/customer base.

This is my opinion, no one elses, but my very high level of respect and loyalty for Bioware has been reduced by the DLC. I dont like this model of game distribution at all. Games are stupidly expensive as it is. I'm sure it's not the programers and artist and designers who benefit from these arrangements - most are on a wage as far as I am aware.

this is my 2 cents anyway

Modifié par gobslat, 22 novembre 2009 - 05:14 .

[Sarakinoi]

Gabochido wrote...

For those of you still reading... I have a couple of questions for those willing to submit more feedback: Do you know how long you took to finish each of the main quests in the game? Do you feel that an average DLC module should be around equal what these quests take?

A quest as long as redcliffe, the forest with the werewolves, or the circle tower? That would be GREAT

I don't even find the motivation to buy Ostagar because I expect it to be too short for the money (I will eventually, maybe in a few months) but something long and detailed would be a must buy on day one. I agree with another poster that you can even increse the price for such a DLC.

Another suggestion : Most of us don't care about items in DLCs. They are nice icing on the cake, but it will never be a primary motivation to get a DLC, so concentrate your efforts on the actual adventuring!

[hwlreckles]

Gabochido wrote...For those of you still reading... I have a couple of questions for those willing to submit more feedback: Do you know how long you took to finish each of the main quests in the game? Do you feel that an average DLC module should be around equal what these quests take?

  It did not take me long at all to beat the game.  However I am definately a more "hardcore" player and a rpg/strategy veteran.  I still very much enjoy playing through it though with other characters.  I do not feel that each DLC module needs to be as long as each of the main quest.

  What I would like to see in each DLC is something unique that hasn't been done in the game yet or simply a unique and challening fight.

[Eurypterid]

I realize it's just your opinion, Gobslat, but how do you feel it's disrespectful? Would you feel it were better if BioWare just released the game, patched it and left it as is? Don't you think the opportunity to give the fans some additional content - which they can choose to buy or not - shows they respect that we may want more of this great game?



While I resepect your right to your own opinion, I just don't get how you see it as disrespectful.

[DrakhanValane]

My opinion on the length of DLC: I'd prefer "dungeon" DLCs that don't have long term impact besides some nice gear (i.e. like Warden's Keep) to be more in line with the main quests (5+ hours average fully experiencing it, maybe 3-4 if seriously rushed). If the DLC has long term effect such as adding an NPC to the party like Shale, the actual quest could be shorter since the "pay off" is longer.

[Goleinveac]

Personally I would love to see the DLC in the length range of say the Dalish Area. The game is just so awesome, I just want more. The wardens keep just kinda left me wanting it to be so much more. I mean, the content was awesome, I just hated that it ended so soon. Plus I wish there was a bit more funcionality to it.



But anyways, I love the game, and I do see the dlc as a good thing overall. Keep it coming Bioware.

[DrakhanValane]

gobslat wrote...


Games are stupidly expensive as it is. I'm sure it's not the programers and artist and designers who benefit from these arrangements - most are on a wage as far as I am aware. 

this is my 2 cents anyway

No, they seriously are not. Despite inflation, games cost much the same now as they have in years past. Look at the original Final Fantasy. Do you think the same resources were put into the game as DA:O or Mass Effect? The designers and programmers definitely benefit; they get to keep doing their jobs.

[boba1974]

gobslat wrote...


I dont think you have to download the content but personally I was saddened by the timing of its relase and biowares use of micro-transactions (which is what it basically is).

I dont like having these little extra purchasable probucts i think it is disrespectful, if not explotative, of your fan/customer base.

This is my opinion, no one elses, but my very high level of respect and loyalty for Bioware has been reduced by the DLC. I dont like this model of game distribution at all. Games are stupidly expensive as it is. I'm sure it's not the programers and artist and designers who benefit from these arrangements - most are on a wage as far as I am aware.

this is my 2 cents anyway

First off, the game proper, without the DLC, can last upwards of 100+ hours or more in one playthrough, which makes me laugh when people try to say Bioware is trying to "exploit" their customers. Take a look at how long the average games lasts, even RPGs, and tell me you don't get every pennies worth from DA.

Second, games are not stupidly expensive, they are ridiculously cheap! In fact, videogames are the one thing I've been buying over the past 20 years that have pretty much stayed the same price. Ten years ago PC games were exactly the same price as they are now, and when you figure in inflation they've actually gone down in price. All this while the cost to make them has increased tenfold. Games are one of the cheapest forms of entertainment available, by a large margin.


For the price of your average video game you get five to ten times the content, if that's what you'd call exploiting your customers i wish more developers would exploit me.




data:image/png;base64,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%3D

[Bakakenny]

To piggyback on what Gabochido said about sticking the NPC in the camp to tell you about the DLC side-quest....I like how they did it.  See, for me, playing NWN 1 & 2 was fun.  But my main complaint about that was that some of the modules that people made were too short, or the level ranges were odd, etc.  That, and when some of those modules created by other members of the community tied in to the main Neverwinter Nights storyline areas (at or during the time when your "main hero" was there), there was absolutely NO WAY to have it tied in.

The NPC in the camp that offers the quest for the DLC fixes that.  It's part of the lore of the game, right there in your face should you choose to accept it (and pay for it).  While i have not downloaded any of the DLC material yet (only 10-15 hours into the game now), i do have the one that came free with the game.  And i completely understand the cost of the DLC and agree with it.  But i would hope (again, i haven't gone through it) that most of these people saying that the DLC is "too short" were just power-playing through it.  

At least we HAVE DLC.  Harken back to the days when you bought an RPG that didn't do anything on the internet...no auto updater, etc (Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and the "first" NWN (the one that AOL owned)).  You could mandually download patches from their file servers to fix bugs...but that was it.  There was no "extra content" available.  You paid $30-$60 for a video game, played it every day after school/college/work, and once you beat it, that was it. You could change the difficulty and pick a different class, but there was absolutely NO extra content provided other than what came with the game (at least until an expansion game came out).  

So for people complaining about the DLC:  Be happy that it's there.  I would be greatly saddened by paying $60 for a wonderful game, and not having the ability to get extra modules for new stories within the lore.  Bioware has done this for NWN 1 and 2, so i don't see why people are whining.  It's here to stay, like it or not.

Gabochido wrote...

As a developer of DA:O, I'm very proud of our work and it saddens me to read that some people believe that weeks of a full team (plus external companies for translations and voice overs, among other things) of work are not worth $7 or even $5 dollars. 

Regardless of that, it brings tears of happiness to my eyes to see everyone else respond to some of those that hate DLC by explaining exactly how it is, thanks guys!

Having said that, we still acknowledge all the feedback we get and while we can't always do something about it, rest assured that its on our minds.

Here are some examples of feedback we've had:

- If DLC is going to cost a certain amount, make it longer or charge less. This is the most common feedback. To this I'll just repeat a few things I've mentioned in other threads. Cost is a big factor. If we make a longer adventure with fully voiced cutscenes and dialogs, that means quite a lot of work AND translating all the writing to 7 languages and adding voice over for 5 of them. A fellow developer mentioned that we could make a really long expansion that just had you battling monsters with lots of hit points and running back and forth in large but empty levels, but we know very well that game length does not equal quality and we try to use our resources to balance out the best experience possible.

- Make bigger meatier full expansion packs. I have mentioned before that whether we do something about it or not, it takes time and resources, so you can't expect one of these immediately after launch.

- DLC should be free, for example ("some older game"). Well, as has been mentioned before, we do offer free DLC for those who purchased the game (and I repeat, the DLC was finished after the game itself was finished, its not like we ripped it from the finished game) but there are specific reasons for why we were able to offer that particular DLC for free. Some people were mentioning multiplayer maps were given for free in other games, but obviously in DA:O an empty map would be quite boring and, in any case, as you guys yourselves explained, its a different type of business model. In those cases free DLC is a way to sell the game and is part of the budget for the game itself. 

These comments are regarding the state of currently announced products. Of course, I can't comment at all on future products or how this feedback will affect them exactly just know that we do read it and take it into account.

To the OP. I'm sorry you feel that way but I hope that the many explanations in this thread help you understand what we are trying to do with DLC. Its a service to those who want to add a little something to their game, and while its a service to you guys, we still need to be able to pay for all the people involved so that we can continue adding cool stuff. And yes, its optional, but we do want you to know about it, that's why there is a guy in the game that tells you.

For those of you still reading... I have a couple of questions for those willing to submit more feedback: Do you know how long you took to finish each of the main quests in the game? Do you feel that an average DLC module should be around equal what these quests take?

[Bryy_Miller]

Red Viking wrote...

Why do people always use the term "slap in the face" anyway? It's been used so much that the meaning has kinda been watered down.

It's the same with me and "Not everything can be Shakespeare, you know" and "Every story has been told already".

The people saying them usually have no idea what they freaking MEAN.

[addiction21]

Gabochido wrote...

- If DLC is going to cost a certain amount, make it longer or charge less. This is the most common feedback. To this I'll just repeat a few things I've mentioned in other threads. Cost is a big factor. If we make a longer adventure with fully voiced cutscenes and dialogs, that means quite a lot of work AND translating all the writing to 7 languages and adding voice over for 5 of them. A fellow developer mentioned that we could make a really long expansion that just had you battling monsters with lots of hit points and running back and forth in large but empty levels, but we know very well that game length does not equal quality and we try to use our resources to balance out the best experience possible.

****some spoilers are included*****    (sorry needed em to explain my point)

Maybe a little more fighting would be welcomed.  Like with wardens keep. I can't really understand when you go out onto the wall/path to the tower. It's 20 feet with a hand full of bad guys to fight then you transition right back inside for another hand full of enemys and then it stops.   I understand not wanting to use large areas that are nothing but a time sink jogging simulation, but I think many would not have minded if there was a little more to them.  Stratch it out where its aplicable especialy if were going to have to go thru a loading page
I'm just using wardens keep since we have so few examples.

Then maybe something like after the keep is all saved and fixed up you could go back and the npc says something along the lines of "monsters in the mines ( or whatever the caved in spot is supposed to be) oh noes save us!!"  You go start a little dungeon crawl. Maybe it used to be where the grey wardens buried their dead and darkspawn broke thru some lower caves/deep roads and started raising the dead or summon demons to inhabit them and you have to clear them out.  Just to add a little life to the dlc.

It wouldn't need all the extravagant cutscenes and the dialogue that went with them that delt with the keep. Which were great, don't get me wrong they were great. Which sorta brings me to another point about it. The pacing just kinda felt like I was getting rushed thru it. Its like cutscene/small trivial fights/cutscene/transition, repeat, repeat, mini boss, repeat, boss, and its over. 

Maybe its just me about the pacing but it just felt like there was little meat and with the keep being so very tiny compared to everything else. I know I look at some of the sidequest areas that are much larger, with many more and varied fights that felt more satisfying. Then a castle where a battle was fought, the veil was weakend/torn, demons, and undead.

Gabochido wrote...
For those of you still reading... I have a couple of questions for those willing to submit more feedback: Do you know how long you took to finish each of the main quests in the game? Do you feel that an average DLC module should be around equal what these quests take?

For the shortest 6-8 hours. Longest about 12 hours. Thats also dependent on if I was catching up on codex entries or just messing around looking at this or that and exploring every nook and crany.  The dalish being the quickest of them. Which sorta brings be back around to a earlier point. The ruins in the dalish part.  To me something of that size would of been a better fit.  The cutscenes would of been a little more spread out with a little more fighting involved. The fighting was a little more varied. Wardens keep just feels like a excersice in room clearing. Open the door kill some stuff then go in the next room kill some stuff. It would also give a some more room to add a few little side things to do. Like a puzzle here or there for something or some type of sidequest to get done while in there, and your all such brilliant designers im sure you could swing a way to avoid needing to add more dialogue for those minor side quests

Again just speaking for myself but if it would help for longer more intricate adventures I would be willing to sacrifce some of the voice acting and cutscenes, or space them out a little more.

Just my 2 cents. (And I did all that with out ever asking for waffles)

Modifié par addiction21, 22 novembre 2009 - 06:36 .

[DrakhanValane]

Red Viking wrote...

Why do people always use the term "slap in the face" anyway? It's been used so much that the meaning has kinda been watered down.

I disagree.

Bryy_Miller wrote...

The people saying them usually have no idea what they freaking MEAN.

However this may hold some water.

[PainFruit]

I'm surprised by all the people complaining that the game's $60. Assuming that's USD, and with a little side-trip to google, that makes it roughly $65 Australian.



Wanna know how much the standard edition is in a standard Australian shop (like EB, for example)?

$110. Which is why I now have a huge download plan and Steam.



Now I completely respect every person's right to whinge. Whinge away, whatever makes you happy. (ha ha ha). But if you ever want to comfort yourself, just remind yourself that it could be worse. You could have sunburn, an overheating computer and $45 less for no readily apparent reason.



I love steam.

[addiction21]

PainFruit wrote...

I'm surprised by all the people complaining that the game's $60. Assuming that's USD, and with a little side-trip to google, that makes it roughly $65 Australian.

Wanna know how much the standard edition is in a standard Australian shop (like EB, for example)?
$110. Which is why I now have a huge download plan and Steam.

Now I completely respect every person's right to whinge. Whinge away, whatever makes you happy. (ha ha ha). But if you ever want to comfort yourself, just remind yourself that it could be worse. You could have sunburn, an overheating computer and $45 less for no readily apparent reason.

I love steam.

Ya I have heard and know about the aussies pain in this department.  Saw first hand when visiting family, but as I understood it that has a lot to do with the goverment and some taxe or something. It's been a while since it was explained to me. To me thats just cause to have some rioting and looting at your local gamespot when theres a new release

[Reload2112]

You can mark any downloaded content as unplayed and roll through it again with different characters. I want to see multiplayer content!