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Who else thinks its [bull] that you have to download more content after paying $60?!


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#151
Georg Zoeller

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The DLC we released so far was a no brainer - shale was free because we really really did not throw her away after we had to cut him from the game. She was a feature cut from the game and we didn't feel it was right to sell her, so every new copy of dragon age got  it for free.

Warden's Keep was created by people on a seperate team who were not part of the team that finished the final product, hence they got to make their own content and decisions and hence we charged for it (except for the digital deluxe edition, where we added it for free to compensate for the cloth map the boxed collectors edition).

Same goes for the recently announced DLC - it's an effort that requires a team of people and these people need to be paid. Hence it costs money. It's cost something like, eh, probably 2 Rockband songs, except much longer, albeit perhaps with a little less repetition and replay value.

At the same time, we have a core team still supporting the game, creating patches which may or may not contain content, adding mod support, etc - and those patches are free.

To be honest, the best way to voice your general opinion about DLC is to buy it or not to buy it. If nobody buys it, there is no point in doing so - however, the numbers we are seeing right now indicate that there is A LOT of people who like DLC.

Or, be constructive and tell us what you would like to see in DLC so you would buy it.

What won't work is 'BioWare, we demand you stop DLC at once!' - because the avalance has already started and it is too late for pebbles to vote - because, let's be frank here, not only is the entire industry rapidly moving towards digital (and Steam's growth rates are a pretty good reflection for that) - but this is also not a question of majority vote anymore:

DLC empowers the creation of more specialized content, things developers were not able to do in the past as they had to ensure that all content they wanted to sell was mass marketable. Now, with DLC, you can target specific audiences who are willing to pay for specific content they like. We've done this before - something like NWN premium module Infinite Dungeons would never have survived on the traditional retail channel, but with the ability to sell it online instead, the economics changed and the product became viable.

If enough people buy DLC to make it profitable, it doesn't matter how many people did not buy it. And, let's be clear here, nobody forces people to buy anything.

And no, I don't think this precludes expansion packs or larger scale content - in fact, it probably makes them more viable as expansion packs were always a gamble with traditional retail economics.

marlowwe wrote...

I don't remember you having this discussion with the community regarding DLC. Would've been nice if, either now or a few years ago you said:

"Nobody has ruled out full fledged pay-to-play DLC or anything, but it
would be foolish to rush into anything without first evaluating the
overall success of the game, the features people liked, etc."

It seems DLC is a given for you and there's not even a need to discuss it.

Regardless of my stance on DLC, I appreciate your responses in this thread (well, maybe not the last one :P)



Modifié par Georg Zoeller, 22 novembre 2009 - 08:58 .


#152
Torias

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Gabochido wrote...

For those of you still reading... I have a couple of questions for those willing to submit more feedback: Do you know how long you took to finish each of the main quests in the game? Do you feel that an average DLC module should be around equal what these quests take?


hmmm, the different main quests did have kind of different lengths...

I think the mage tower quest is a good benchmark in terms of a really good amount of content.

the redcliff quest ended up being quite long when you take all parts of it into account, I probably wouldn't expect THAT much from a DLC module.

One thing that'd be nice to see from DLC (or maybe it'd have to wait for the expansion pack) would be new lines of talents for the various talent groups... maybe each DLC could add three lines of talents for one class...

#153
marlowwe

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Mordaedil wrote...

marlowwe wrote...

Georg Zoeller wrote...
Nobody has ruled out full fledged expansion packs or anything, but it would be foolish to rush into anything without first evaluating the overall success of the game, the features people liked, etc.


I don't remember you having this discussion with the community regarding DLC. Would've been nice if, either now or a few years ago you said:

"Nobody has ruled out full fledged pay-to-play DLC or anything, but it
would be foolish to rush into anything without first evaluating the
overall success of the game, the features people liked, etc."

It seems DLC is a given for you and there's not even a need to discuss it.

Regardless of my stance on DLC, I appreciate your responses in this thread (well, maybe not the last one :P)


They did a year ago. The community was very receptive of the idea of DLC.


That's funny - were the people who were against the kind of DLC model that's in place today sleeping or something :P

#154
Tzarecta

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Modifié par Tzarecta, 22 novembre 2009 - 09:01 .


#155
Tzarecta

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i say it terrific game plus i was the 1st to get from EA store plus most my dlc were free only thing i had pay 6.99 plus i only paid 40 dollars for it i say it was a steal thx Bioware and EA!!:D

#156
Realmjumper

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Wow Shale is female that's news I thought she was a he.

#157
Evindale

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Curse you bioware for making us pay for your work... *shakes angry fist*. And DLC keeps the game going, it worked wonders for games like oblivion and fallout ^^

#158
Torias

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PainFruit wrote...
 You could have sunburn, an overheating computer and $45 less for no readily apparent reason.

I love steam.


haha, I had to take the side of my pc off and stick a fan blowing into it to cool the pc down so I could finish dragon age today.

I too, love steam.

#159
rpgplayer1

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I think the mage tower quest is a good benchmark in terms of a really good amount of content.

the redcliff quest ended up being quite long when you take all parts of it into account, I probably wouldn't expect THAT much from a DLC module.


Redcliff questline is more like 2 DLCs (arrival to Redliff being one, and everything else being the 2nd). :D

Modifié par rpgplayer1, 22 novembre 2009 - 09:05 .


#160
marlowwe

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The DLC we released so far was a no brainer - shale was free because we really really did not throw her away after we had to cut him from the game. She was a feature cut from the game and we didn't feel it was right to sell her, so every new copy of dragon age got it for free.



Warden's Keep was created by people on a seperate team who were not part of the team that finished the final product, hence they got to make their own content and decisions and hence we charged for it (except for the digital deluxe edition, where we added it for free to compensate for the cloth map the boxed collectors edition).



Same goes for the recently announced DLC - it's an effort that requires a team of people and these people need to be paid. Hence it costs money. It's cost something like, eh, probably 2 Rockband songs, except much longer, albeit perhaps with a little less repetition and replay value.



At the same time, we have a core team still supporting the game, creating patches which may or may not contain content, adding mod support, etc - and those patches are free.



To be honest, the best way to voice your general opinion about DLC is to buy it or not to buy it. If nobody buys it, there is no point in doing so - however, the numbers we are seeing right now indicate that there is A LOT of people who like DLC.



Or, be constructive and tell us what you would like to see in DLC so you would buy it.



What won't work is 'BioWare, we demand you stop DLC at once!' - because the avalance has already started and it is too late for pebbles to vote - because, let's be frank here, not only is the entire industry rapidly moving towards digital (and Steam's growth rates are a pretty good reflection for that) - but this is also not a question of majority vote anymore:



DLC empowers the creation of more specialized content, things developers were not able to do in the past as they had to ensure that all content they wanted to sell was mass marketable. Now, with DLC, you can target specific audiences who are willing to pay for specific content they like. We've done this before - something like NWN premium module Infinite Dungeons would never have survived on the traditional retail channel, but with the ability to sell it online instead, the economics changed and the product became viable.



If enough people buy DLC to make it profitable, it doesn't matter how many people did not buy it. And, let's be clear here, nobody forces people to buy anything.



And no, I don't think this precludes expansion packs or larger scale content - in fact, it probably makes them more viable as expansion packs were always a gamble with traditional retail economics.




Disregarding the economics aspect of DLC - do you, as a game developer, think that DLC will fragment Dragon Age? Will it turn it into a game where, bit by bit, you end up paying for little things and creating a culture of micro transactions? As an example, if enough people wanted to buy powerful items or graphically impressive abilities for real money would you allow it? Where do you draw the line?



Again, thank you for the informative reply.




#161
Torias

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marlowwe wrote...

Georg Zoeller wrote...
Nobody has ruled out full fledged expansion packs or anything, but it would be foolish to rush into anything without first evaluating the overall success of the game, the features people liked, etc.


I don't remember you having this discussion with the community regarding DLC. Would've been nice if, either now or a few years ago you said:

"Nobody has ruled out full fledged pay-to-play DLC or anything, but it
would be foolish to rush into anything without first evaluating the
overall success of the game, the features people liked, etc."

It seems DLC is a given for you and there's not even a need to discuss it.

Regardless of my stance on DLC, I appreciate your responses in this thread (well, maybe not the last one :P)



they sent out surveys after Mass Effect, asking people what kind of stuff they would want in DLC.

#162
Cbowsin

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It has a beginning, middle, and end. Appears to be a full game to me.

#163
Inarai

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marlowwe wrote...

Inarai wrote...

marlowwe wrote...

Georg Zoeller wrote...
Nobody has ruled out full fledged expansion packs or anything, but it would be foolish to rush into anything without first evaluating the overall success of the game, the features people liked, etc.


I don't remember you having this discussion with the community regarding DLC. Would've been nice if, either now or a few years ago you said:

"Nobody has ruled out full fledged pay-to-play DLC or anything, but it
would be foolish to rush into anything without first evaluating the
overall success of the game, the features people liked, etc."

It seems DLC is a given for you and there's not even a need to discuss it.

Regardless of my stance on DLC, I appreciate your responses in this thread (well, maybe not the last one :P)



Well, realistically, DLC is a lower risk model, so you CAN try having something out as soon as possible, which might wind up being right of of the gate, and evaluate interest and community opinion first.

I do agree that it's great that they're actually reaching out to the community like this.


I disagree with you. I would imagine a lot of costly infrastructure goes into the DLC model so you can't just "try it". In any case judging from Bioware's responses to this issue it looks like they have had the infrastructure in place for a while and they probably won't dismantle it.


I suppose that is true...  But the development costs are much lower, and you don't have to deal with retail.

#164
tempaccountdeleteme

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Tossing in my two cents. It's damn annoying, but I can deal with it. I feel like this is going to turn into Nagware though. Every time I come to the camp, I have to see this quest I can't get without actually paying some cash and downloading. If the next game is like this, I'll be done with this series of games, but I'm hoping it won't be as bad in the future. I don't mind the DLC's so much, but it was annoying to be nagged with it in camp, etc.  Oh, yeah, overall, I call bull, sure.

/twocents

EDIT: On a side note, this marketting tactic really does work on a lot of you, sadly. So we'll probably see more of it in the future.

Double Edit: Oh, and I loved the game, nice work. Just not enough to buy the DLC's lol

Modifié par tempaccountdeleteme, 22 novembre 2009 - 09:20 .


#165
Guest_drengist40_*

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I just read the titel of the thread. So bare with me, if I missed something.



Bioware: Thank you for making this game. It's outstanding, I enjoyed every minute. You developed it for how many years? 5? 7? Cant remember. It's worth every single dollar.



And I am more than willing to throw more money at you via the DLC. Why?



1. I am sure, I will get value for money. I know 5 bucks for Wardens Keep is expensive, it might be even a bit over the top. But I know there will be more and better stuff to come.



2. Bioware needs to make money with the games it produces. I want Dragen Age 2, I want expansions, but overall I want quality. Bioware delivers quality. Its a sign for the whole gaming industry: Make good games and you make good money.

#166
Georg Zoeller

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That is fair and valid feedback and I'm sure the DLC team is much more willing to listen to something like this as opposed to an unqualified 'DLC is teh suck' post :)


tempaccountdeleteme wrote...

Tossing in my two cents. It's damn annoying, but I can deal with it. I feel like this is going to turn into Nagware though. Every time I come to the camp, I have to see this quest I can't get without actually paying some cash and downloading.
/twocents



#167
Guest_drengist40_*

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I just read the title of the thread. So bare with me, if I missed something.

Bioware: Thank you for making this game. It's outstanding, I enjoyed every minute. You developed it for how many years? 5? 7? Cant remember. It's worth every single dollar.

And I am more than willing to throw more money at you via the DLC. Why?

1. I am sure, I will get value for money. I know 5 bucks for Wardens Keep is expensive, it might be even a bit over the top. But I know there will be more and better stuff to come.

2. Bioware needs to make money with the games it produces. I want Dragen Age 2, I want expansions, but overall I want quality. Bioware delivers quality. Its a sign for the whole gaming industry: Make good games and you make good money.

Modifié par drengist40, 22 novembre 2009 - 09:29 .


#168
DM Veil

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Realmjumper wrote...

Wow Shale is female that's news I thought she was a he.

Have you looked at her below the waist? You can't tell me that is the shape of a male, golem or no.

As for DLC's, since I bought the digital deluxe edition I got WK for free (I lose out on getting to add a box to my game collection though :crying:) but would have bought it had it not been included. The price isn't much and I have an appreciation for stuff like WK that apparently a vocal portion of this community does not. I don't for a second believe that DLC jeapordizes in any way future plans for an expansion, in my mind they're two different beasts; one focuses on expanding the overall story (expansion) while the other focuses on adding smaller subplots to explore (DLC).

#169
toronto13

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CrazyKindBud wrote...

bought this game thinking it would be the full game but no. the second i log it offers me downloadable content? there are missions in the main story line you cant do without paying another $10. I knew EA was a lame ass company but i didnt think Bioware would be as well. Im extremely diapointed in these shiesty policies...

[Edit] Careful with the language. You still have to follow the Terms of Service.

 
First let me ask you this,is DAO first game that you bought or played?If that is the case then ok,but then again if you are so righteous then why don't you go to other gaming forums and complain how BioWare for $60 ofers you something from 40-100hrs game play while most of them ofer only 20hrs max.Because if you look at things from thas perspective then BioWare are saints or crazy for giving you so much game play for same amount of the money others do.Image IPB

Modifié par toronto13, 22 novembre 2009 - 09:23 .


#170
sirshapechanger

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Warden's keep was short I was for sure disappointed about that. However did I regret spending 7 dollars? Hell no, arguably that 7 dollars made the 60 dollar purchase I made all the better because I got a kick ass ability that restored mana and a chest to throw all the stuff I couldn't carry in my bags into.
Bioware has always been a great company, and they have always done great work. Dragon Age is really pretty, and reminds me of Star wars KOTOR but with better graphics and in a dark medieval setting. You don't need the stuff but it sure makes it more fun!

Modifié par sirshapechanger, 22 novembre 2009 - 09:23 .


#171
Rheannan

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Torias wrote...

haha, I had to take the side of my pc off and stick a fan blowing into it to cool the pc down so I could finish dragon age today.

I know people who just leave the entire case off during summer whether they're gaming or not. I have a desk fan so what you mentioned wouldn't be unreasonable...

However, air conditioned gaming beats that.

#172
Sarakinoi

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Georg Zoeller wrote...

The DLC we released so far was a no brainer - shale was free because we really really did not throw her away after we had to cut him from the game. She was a feature cut from the game and we didn't feel it was right to sell her, so every new copy of dragon age got  it for free.

Warden's Keep was created by people on a seperate team who were not part of the team that finished the final product, hence they got to make their own content and decisions and hence we charged for it (except for the digital deluxe edition, where we added it for free to compensate for the cloth map the boxed collectors edition).


I don't understand... I bought the digital deluxe edition for 65$ (Steam Preorder), and got NO clothmap, NO soldier's keep for free, and NO stone prisoner for free. On top of that the game is already being sold at 40$ everywhere, which is 10$ more than preorders. Why punish loyal fans and early adopters who preordered by making it up to 25$ more expensive than most? and this only 2 weeks after game launch.

I am not angry or anything, I just don't understand what's going on.

At the same time, we have a core team still supporting the game, creating patches which may or may not contain content, adding mod support, etc - and those patches are free.

well, so far there has been 3 DLCs and very little in the patch department seeing the number of problems people are having. To name a few the DRM on the savegames related to DLCs, the broken quests, an official dexterity fix, the non working runes with activated abilities, and so on.

Or, be constructive and tell us what you would like to see in DLC so you would buy it.

1) Rely less on extra items (A king armor and sword is really not motivating me to buy Ostagar, I could care les about items especially that they were overpowered in the two previous DLCs and I ended up deactivating the DLCs all together)
2) Meatier DLCs would be better as the current ones seem too short. Something the size of the circle of magi main quest for 9.95$ sounds about right, and I would even buy such expansion on a montly basis for sure.

What won't work is 'BioWare, we demand you stop DLC at once!'

Never... We love the game too much for that, and we want to see more of it. However even if it is not my case, I believe the ones angry at the DLCs are people on a tight budget, and I can understand that they feel a bit exploited seeing the current model of releasing a swarm of tiny DLCs. A lot of people would be much happier if you just increase the value of dlcs.
Another technical aspect is that you integrated NPC DLC sellers inside the game, which makes people think the game has been stripped of content and sold incomplete to monetize it. (It might have made sens in an MMO, but in a single player game I think it is really misleading.)

Modifié par Sarakinoi, 22 novembre 2009 - 09:32 .


#173
Georg Zoeller

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Sarakinoi wrote...
I don't understand... I bought the digital deluxe edition for 65$ (Steam Preorder), and got NO clothmap, NO soldier's keep for free, and NO stone prisoner for free. On top of that the game is already being sold at 40$ everywhere, which is 10$ more than preorders. Why punish loyal fans and early adopters who preordered by making it up to 25$ more expensive than most? and this only 2 weeks after game launch.


If you have the digital deluxe edition on steam, you can redeem the CD keys for the game (available through the steam context menu) with the social site to enable the dowload of Warden's Keep and Shale. If you have trouble with that, please contact support.

As for vendors having sales, I'm sorry, nothing we can do about that.

As for patches, there was two so far (1.01a and 1.01b). 1.02 is being worked on.

Modifié par Georg Zoeller, 22 novembre 2009 - 09:29 .


#174
Parhasard

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I want more content. So diaf.

#175
lizardglenn

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The CE version of the game was $130 or $109 for vanilla & the price of games has gone up a hell of a lot over the years in Australia for no better reason than they can,
someone mentioned tax the 10% GST & whatever hidden tax etc is not the reason for the higher prices
also the points/cost for the DLC that we send to EA Swiss Sarl via paypall or whatever is
* Purchase 400 BioWare points
AUD 6.60
* Purchase 560 BioWare points
AUD 9.24
* Purchase 800 BioWare points
AUD 13.20
* Purchase 1600 BioWare points
AUD 26.40

so with the $130 CE + $9.24 for WK so far, by this time next year if i get lots of DLC it should be around or over $200 spent
& to anyone who says see if it is worth buying 1st the only true way to do that is by looking at a spoiler

Modifié par lizardglenn, 22 novembre 2009 - 09:36 .