791 réponses à ce sujet

[Gemini1179]

Filament wrote...

Filament wrote...

I would note that there was a Batman variant (or maybe it was fanart) where he was wearing armor plating, but it was still instantly recognizable as Batman. Ironman has variants of his armor that are much more ornate/heavy. Samus has multiple different suits. Final bosses in video games tend to go through multiple stages of grotesqueness while preserving an element of the antagonist's "identity" that makes them recognizable.

My point is that by Stanley Woo's post, I feel a bit concerned that they're so scared of losing that "iconic" look that they barely even want to consider recolors (because Superman and Green Lantern just wouldn't be themselves recolored, though Spiderman manages), much less more significant variations. This would be a far too limiting interpretation of what is needed to make a character "iconic."

I was hoping a dev might offer some clarification on this. Not to sound pushy.

I'm more concerend at the thought that DA companion characters should be held in the same sentence as Superman, Spiderman, Batman, etc. It's not an insult, but if you show any random person an image of Isabela, Morrigan, Fenris and Superman, odds are a VAST majority of people will only recognize Superman.

What  Bioware has is a fanbase that they seem to think isn't representative of the people who play their games. Does anyone think that more than 10 million people know who Shepard is? Is that number even low enough?

Until AT LEAST a DA or ME movie comes out, BW can't go thinking that their 'Iconic' characters can really be said in the same sentence as those examples above. Right now the devs are comparing their characters to the extremes of Iconic characters.

"People can make up statistics to prove anything Kent, 14% of all people know that."

[ipgd]

tmp7704 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Seriously I could post just pictures of Snake's ass here and eveyone would understand.

Isn't that because MGS is the only series not afraid to openly tap into the mullet and Top Gun fanbases, though?

(i mean, it's easy to be 'recognizable' when you have no competition)

Don't talk **** about Snake's mullet. That thing is beautiful.

His ass doesn't have a mullet, though.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Gemini1179 wrote...

What  Bioware has is a fanbase that they seem to think isn't representative of the people who play their games. Does anyone think that more than 10 million people know who Shepard is? Is that number even low enough?

Maybe they re in for some cool line of toys--err I mean collectible figures :|

[tmp7704]

ipgd wrote...

Don't talk **** about Snake's mullet. That thing is beautiful.

Oh, don't get me wrong -- i'm not dissing it at all.

... though i think Ocelot's was superior.

[Dubya75]

Harid wrote...

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

That is where persuade comes in handy.

"Morrigan dear, you are all about power AND survival. You are an AW now...this armor will protect you and make you look badarse!"

Morrigan: "Ok you convinced me."

Yeah, something like that could be done. Everything is better when it makes some kind of sense in respect of character you play an NPC you interact. Better than inconsistency Sylvius is so Mad about that is. Either make characters uncontrollable completely and see them be real people, wearing favorite armor, switching to home clothes outside combats and buying winter cloaks if we are for some mountain adventure (with banter!), or stay oldschool.

Pretty much this,  It's a copout.

I think I would honestly respect them more if they came out and said it's easier not to deal with trying to make armor fit everyone directly, so they aren't going to bother.  Then at least I could laugh at them, like when SE said making HD towns is too hard.   I'd know from now to move the **** on.

I think it's more a case of them laughing at you right now... 

[Harid]

Dubya75 wrote...

Harid wrote...

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

That is where persuade comes in handy.

"Morrigan dear, you are all about power AND survival. You are an AW now...this armor will protect you and make you look badarse!"

Morrigan: "Ok you convinced me."

Yeah, something like that could be done. Everything is better when it makes some kind of sense in respect of character you play an NPC you interact. Better than inconsistency Sylvius is so Mad about that is. Either make characters uncontrollable completely and see them be real people, wearing favorite armor, switching to home clothes outside combats and buying winter cloaks if we are for some mountain adventure (with banter!), or stay oldschool.

Pretty much this,  It's a copout.

I think I would honestly respect them more if they came out and said it's easier not to deal with trying to make armor fit everyone directly, so they aren't going to bother.  Then at least I could laugh at them, like when SE said making HD towns is too hard.   I'd know from now to move the **** on.

I think it's more a case of them laughing at you right now... 

Thanks for this well written post, anonymous Bioware defender #86397.  I would like to subscibe to your newsletter.

Explain how concetration on "iconic looks" of people probably recognized by at best 4 million people makes any sense whatsoever?

What makes more sense to me is concentration precisely because of the niche, and because it's easier than the time it would take to model armor for everyone, considering that they don't go back to the DA:O system that is fine with most contentious on the issue in the first place..

Modifié par Harid, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:36 .

[Stanley Woo]

Gemini1179 wrote...
I'm more concerend at the thought that DA companion characters should be held in the same sentence as Superman, Spiderman, Batman, etc. It's not an insult, but if you show any random person an image of Isabela, Morrigan, Fenris and Superman, odds are a VAST majority of people will only recognize Superman.

Of course, directly comparing this past year's game character with 40 year old icons of popular culture would be silly. But using them as well-known examples of iconography would be pretty apt, I think.

Until AT LEAST a DA or ME movie comes out, BW can't go thinking that their 'Iconic' characters can really be said in the same sentence as those examples above. Right now the devs are comparing their characters to the extremes of Iconic characters.

Really? That's the takeaway from all this rigamarole? "Oh em jee, BioWare thinks their characters are as awesome as Superman"?

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:35 .

[bEVEsthda]

leonia42 wrote...

What you want and what the devs want don't seem to coincide, that seems more problematic for you than for them. They are free to do as they wish with their games, regardless of whatever "promises" you think they made you in the past.

Gloating?

Games evolve, genres evolve, stories and features.. evolve. You cannot expect Bioware to keep making BG over and over again in new settings because you, as a gamer, prefer the same old, same old. Either you adapt to the changes and become somewhat happy because, at the end of the day, what your party members look like is a very minor detail of the game, or you move on to something that better suits your tastes.

"adapt to change"?  Actually, what I see DA and ME "evolve" into is the same old, same old. It's the ancient Nintendo console platformer from video gamings stone age. In terms of the gameplay you see in many games today (including Bioware lately), that old BG is absolutely great and very unique.

If you had a hard time understanding that: I will never "adapt" to just play silly combat levels and watch movies in between. I was done with that crap before I began. So don't worry bout my taste. But if it's so that you can't stand people expressing dissenting views, then maybe it's you who shouldn't bother with this forum?

[Icinix]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Really? That's the takeaway from all this rigamarole? "Oh em jee, BioWare thinks their characters are as awesome as Superman"?

Well to be fair - Superman is a (Soft Delicate Feline)- Isabella is not.

Modifié par Icinix, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:37 .

[rak72]

tmp7704 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Seriously I could post just pictures of Snake's ass here and eveyone would understand.

Isn't that because MGS is the only series not afraid to openly tap into the mullet and Top Gun fanbases, though?

(i mean, it's easy to be 'recognizable' when you have no competition)

I have no idea what a snakes ass is

[mesmerizedish]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Really? That's the takeaway from all this rigamarole? "Oh em jee, BioWare thinks their characters are as awesome as Superman"?

Now the takeaway is "Rigamarole is a funny word, especially when said by a volus."

[Harid]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...
I'm more concerend at the thought that DA companion characters should be held in the same sentence as Superman, Spiderman, Batman, etc. It's not an insult, but if you show any random person an image of Isabela, Morrigan, Fenris and Superman, odds are a VAST majority of people will only recognize Superman.

Of course, directly comparing this past year's game character with 40 year old icons of popular culture would be silly. But using them as well-known examples of iconography would be pretty apt, I think.

Until AT LEAST a DA or ME movie comes out, BW can't go thinking that their 'Iconic' characters can really be said in the same sentence as those examples above. Right now the devs are comparing their characters to the extremes of Iconic characters.

Really? That's the takeaway from all this rigamarole? "Oh em jee, BioWare thinks their characters are as awesome as Superman"?

Given the comparison to Superman, it's a bit ironic that Superman has a bunch of different costumes, but is still recognized by his iconic look, which is probably something you should be aiming for.

You did it for Morrigan.  Not that hard to do for other characters.

[Stanley Woo]

Wow, how did this discussion turn so ugly so quickly? Let's back up the pain train, people, and remember to be excellent to each other.

[Stanley Woo]

Filament wrote...

There's nothing wrong with the devs setting an arbitrary level of control you have over your companions. What's wrong is when people try to argue that wanting more control means you have no respect for BioWare's vision, or when they argue that defending less control means you're copping out instead of just accepting the amount of control BW wants to allow, or when they argue that unless you have total control or no control at all, it's egregious in its inconsistency. It's not, it's just how BioWare chose to design their game... take it or leave it.

This is ultimately the crux of it.

[Leonia]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Filament wrote...

There's nothing wrong with the devs setting an arbitrary level of control you have over your companions. What's wrong is when people try to argue that wanting more control means you have no respect for BioWare's vision, or when they argue that defending less control means you're copping out instead of just accepting the amount of control BW wants to allow, or when they argue that unless you have total control or no control at all, it's egregious in its inconsistency. It's not, it's just how BioWare chose to design their game... take it or leave it.

This is ultimately the crux of it.

Curses, Woo beat me to quoting it! That's a great summation, Filament.

[Zjarcal]

David Gaider wrote...

What I'm hearing is that unless you have this choice, you don't have anything. 

It's the forums, so everything has to be blown out of proportion.

On a related note, iconic looks make it easier to make pony versions of the DA characters (or ME, see my avi), hence why the iconic look is pure win. Yes, that's my argument. 

[Icinix]

Harid wrote...

Given the comparison to Superman, it's a bit ironic that Superman has a bunch of different costumes, but is still recognized by his iconic look, which is probably something you should be aiming for.

You did it for Morrigan.  Not that hard to do for other characters.

Maybe BioWare would be better to look at Batman? Who is always iconic, but his suit has gone from sleek and graceful, to heavy and solid?

But - like David Gaider said, something akin to that is being looked at.

I think its the best middle ground between full customisation and iconic.

..

..of course, I would love to see weather/ environment play a part!  In my perfect game - characters will wear heavier woolen styles of their clothing when in snow and tundra, and lighter looser items when in deserts and hot areas!

[bEVEsthda]

Stanley Woo wrote...

...And someone always says that they prefer a bunk bed in the shape of a race car.

1: I've never heard that. But I'm sure you get a lot of varying opinions, so I get the gist.
2: But I didn't say that, did I? Is the world and mood of DA:O now "a bunk bed in the shape of a race car"?
3: Nevermind.

[mesmerizedish]

Zjarcal wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

What I'm hearing is that unless you have this choice, you don't have anything. 

It's the forums, so everything has to be blown out of proportion.

On a related note, iconic looks make it easier to make pony versions of the DA characters (or ME, see my avi), hence why the iconic look is pure win. Yes, that's my argument. 

That is the best argument.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

I still don't get one thing, by the way. Why do we need to remember character's look so much, when we already remember their personalities?
You can't "cheat" and make character more memorable with some extraordinary looks, if he lacks personality. That just is't how RPG's work. And I dare to say that's not even how people's mind who play RPG's work.

Liara from ME would be an example. She certanly have distinct look. But some people, including me, really were WTF because her personality did't stay consistent through games/comics.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:52 .

[Willybot]

Zjarcal wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

What I'm hearing is that unless you have this choice, you don't have anything. 

It's the forums, so everything has to be blown out of proportion.

On a related note, iconic looks make it easier to make pony versions of the DA characters (or ME, see my avi), hence why the iconic look is pure win. Yes, that's my argument. 

I stand by my insistance that ponies solve all the world's problems:

[Mr.House]

Zjarcal wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

What I'm hearing is that unless you have this choice, you don't have anything. 

It's the forums, so everything has to be blown out of proportion.

On a related note, iconic looks make it easier to make pony versions of the DA characters (or ME, see my avi), hence why the iconic look is pure win. Yes, that's my argument. 

[tmp7704]

rak72 wrote...

I have no idea what a snakes ass is

An instantly recognizable pean to virility and the perfect human form.

[Harid]

Is this pony thing some avante-garde trolling, like how people act like Lil' B is a good rapper?

Cause I really don't get it at all.