791 réponses à ce sujet

[PsychoBlonde]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Who the **** cared.

Me, for one.  I changed outfits far more often in DA2 than I did in Origins.  I just didn't do it on the companions.  But I didn't do it on the companions in Origins, either, because the Origins armor was ugly.  Yeah, there was lots of it--if you count different colors of the same suits as "different".  I don't.  The fact that I could put the same 7 ugly suits on my companions didn't make a damn bit of difference--it just meant we were ALL fashion victims.

[FieryDove]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Who the **** cared.

Me, for one.  I changed outfits far more often in DA2 than I did in Origins.  I just didn't do it on the companions.  But I didn't do it on the companions in Origins, either, because the Origins armor was ugly.  Yeah, there was lots of it--if you count different colors of the same suits as "different".  I don't.  The fact that I could put the same 7 ugly suits on my companions didn't make a damn bit of difference--it just meant we were ALL fashion victims.

Ugly is subjective. The only thing I thought was...unpleasant were mage hats. I also do not like robes/dresses in general and won't wear them in DA2 either. I miss AW just for that...sigh

[Carmen_Willow]

I liked dressing my companions in different armor and choosing the stuff that had the best stats for them depending on what role they filled in the team.

Besides, the DA 2 Iconic looks are often dumb.  I mean, who goes to a knife fight in a g-string and shirt for heaven's sake? The woman should have more scars than Freddie Kruger.

And why would any warrior go barefoot? Makes absolutely no sense.

[mesmerizedish]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

DA2 has more armor meshes than DAO does.

Who the **** cared.

I did. I *loathed* Origins' armors. They were all ugly and they were all the same. They didn't need to make dwarf/elf models for DAII, so they got to make a lot more. I am HAPPY with that.

If you want more variety among all the races, make it yourself. You know, like I did.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 07 septembre 2011 - 11:38 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Uh, in the context of someone implying that doing unique companion body models

In context that overall DA2 characters came out at least controversial when it came down to who loved them, and who don't.

PsychoBlonde , I don't get the "ugly" thing. Regular armor was, well, just armor. Rare suits were bulky, shiny, and warriors looked just badass in that huge piles of enchanted steel. I collected them just to look at them, like Juggernaut, Legion, arcane warriors specific set..
Though mage hats were just corny.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 07 septembre 2011 - 11:39 .

[Mike_Neel]

I actually prefer the DAII Iconic look over Origins customization. In Origins I just always put my companions in the armor/robes with the best stats so by 1/4 through all my warriors looked the same, my rogues looked the same, and my mages looked the same. I wore the few clothes that had a fairly unique look for myself because I'm selfish like that.

But in DAII you can tell Aveline is a member of the guard right away, you can tell Merrill is Dalish. You can tell Izzy is...well Izzy. You can tell Sebestian is high born. They have a distinct look that remains consistent.

[Sylvius the Mad]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

They're not bound by different clothing rules. They both wear what they want to wear. The discrepancy is that you, as the player, decide what Hawke wears, while you don't decide what Isabela wears.

But how those preferences are established differs.

In Hawke's case, I choose.  In Isabela's case, the designers choose.  Both only with her clothing.  With regard to almost everything else about her, I decide.

I love your mod, Ish, but I think DA2 is unplayable without it.

If you're immersed, and you're not aware it's a game, then it's a little unreasonable to think you should have control over more than the character designated as yours.

I wouldn't be aware of the designation as mine, either.

There are characters I can control and characters I cannot.  Never the twain shall meet.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

But in DAII you can tell Aveline is a member of the guard right away

I have nothing against Aveline. Wearing uniform of a party you belong to is fine. She is in the army. I get it.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I think there is more to the iconic look than meets the eye.

One can argue that a human only PC was required for the story. That looks like a valid reason, but if you think about the other "streamlining" which surrounds it then it looks more like a requirement to either reduce cost or development time.

A human only PC reduces cost or development time for the following reasons. There is no need need to have origins (and everything that is required to implement those), the story and dialogue can be centered around a male or female human only PC, there is no need to implement (manual or automatic) race specific camera corrections in cinematics for the non-human races, and the armor found in loot only has to fit the male and female human only PC when we introduce companion armor.

When we look at Morrigan in DA:O then she has both the ability to wear a DA2-style unique "companion armor" (which gave her an unique look) and the ability to wear armor found in loot (as long as it fitted her class). That is the ideal situation for me. The player still has the option to dress her in whatever fits her class or just use her companion armor.

In DA2 BW has chosen companion armor and remove the companion's ability to wear armor found in loot. They could have chosen to do it like it was implemented for Morrigan, but BW has chosen not to do so. That has of course cost or development time reduction advantages.

The usual DA:O armor found in loot has to fit both male and female humans, dwarfs and elves and male qunari. That means each armor has to fit 7 variations. To reduce that number in DA2 the human only PC also makes sense. Now armor found in loot just has to fit the male and female humans. The companions now need their own unique armor. Let's find a great marketing term for that cost reduction operation to sell it to the players: Iconic look of the companions.

I think that answers the question raised in the topic title.

[Sylvius the Mad]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I did. I *loathed* Origins' armors. They were all ugly and they were all the same. They didn't need to make dwarf/elf models for DAII, so they got to make a lot more. I am HAPPY with that.

If you want more variety among all the races, make it yourself. You know, like I did.

I'll admit, I installed armour mods for DAO as well.  More, probably.

So really, regardless of which design philosophy they follow, they should give us a toolset so we can easily fix whatever we think is wrong.

[Maria Caliban]

Because iconic looks..

1) Are memorable. 
2) Save zots.
3) Give each companion a visually distinct look. (Wynne in Chisand armor, anyone?) 
4) Express character

[ipgd]

FieryDove wrote...

Ugly is subjective. The only thing I thought was...unpleasant were mage hats. I also do not like robes/dresses in general and won't wear them in DA2 either. I miss AW just for that...sigh

They have some objectively horrible anatomy.



Look at these collarbones. LOOK AT THEM. They hurt me on a level you can't even begin to fathom. And, really, putting cleavage without actually lifting the breasts of the mesh??? Oh my god it looks like her boobies are made of water.

This causes me literal physical pain. I am not even exaggerating. My chest really starts to hurt when I look at this.

Modifié par ipgd, 07 septembre 2011 - 11:45 .

[Dragoonlordz]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

DA2 has more armor meshes than DAO does.

Who the **** cared.

I did. I *loathed* Origins' armors. They were all ugly and they were all the same. They didn't need to make dwarf/elf models for DAII, so they got to make a lot more. I am HAPPY with that.

If you want more variety among all the races, make it yourself. You know, like I did.

That only works if you have a toolset, one use for DA2 being the DAO one is limited and they I believe have no intention of ever releasing a toolset again for future products.

[ipgd]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I did. I *loathed* Origins' armors. They were all ugly and they were all the same. They didn't need to make dwarf/elf models for DAII, so they got to make a lot more. I am HAPPY with that.

If you want more variety among all the races, make it yourself. You know, like I did.

That only works if you have a toolset, one use for DA2 being the DAO one is limited and they I believe have no intention of ever releasing a toolset again for future products.

reactionimagethatdisplaysmyamusedexpressionwhenheignoresthelinktothemodthatdoesexactlythisinhersig.jpg

The toolset never helped anyone make meshes, people.

[Morroian]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I did. I *loathed* Origins' armors. They were all ugly and they were all the same. They didn't need to make dwarf/elf models for DAII, so they got to make a lot more. I am HAPPY with that.

If you want more variety among all the races, make it yourself. You know, like I did.

That only works if you have a toolset, one use for DA2 being the DAO one is limited and they I believe have no intention of ever releasing a toolset again for future products.

So all those fan made armors for DA2 are just a figment of the imagination are they?

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

So really, regardless of which design philosophy they follow, they should give us a toolset so we can easily fix whatever we think is wrong.

Then whenever you'll say that something else sucks, devs and the whole bunch of fans would instantly spam you with "Mods will fix this!".
I hate that kind of attitude. It just removes part of game's personality.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Because iconic looks..

1) Are memorable. 

Not always in a good way.

2) Save zots.

So do default bodies.

3) Give each companion a visually distinct look. (Wynne in Chisand armor, anyone?) 

We can already do that ourselves.

4) Express character

Not BioWare's job.

[Dragoonlordz]

Morroian wrote...

So all those fan made armors for DA2 are just a figment of the imagination are they?

Yes

[ipgd]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Not BioWare's job.

It's certainly Bioware's job for the game they are actually making. They cannot design around your imaginary head game.

[Sylvius the Mad]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

So really, regardless of which design philosophy they follow, they should give us a toolset so we can easily fix whatever we think is wrong.

Then whenever you'll say that something else sucks, devs and the whole bunch of fans would instantly spam you with "Mods will fix this!".

If I think it sucks, and they gave us a toolset, then I should really just go fix it myself.

[phaonica]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

So really, regardless of which design philosophy they follow, they should give us a toolset so we can easily fix whatever we think is wrong.

Then whenever you'll say that something else sucks, devs and the whole bunch of fans would instantly spam you with "Mods will fix this!".
I hate that kind of attitude. It just removes part of game's personality.

But at the same time, the devs cannot make a game to fit each of our personal tastes, and mods go a long way towards letting us customize the experience.

[Sylvius the Mad]

ipgd wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Not BioWare's job.

It's certainly Bioware's job for the game they are actually making. They cannot design around your imaginary head game.

They can't design for it.  They can certainly design around it.  They've done that time and time again in their previous games.

[mesmerizedish]

ipgd wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I did. I *loathed* Origins' armors. They were all ugly and they were all the same. They didn't need to make dwarf/elf models for DAII, so they got to make a lot more. I am HAPPY with that.

If you want more variety among all the races, make it yourself. You know, like I did.

That only works if you have a toolset, one use for DA2 being the DAO one is limited and they I believe have no intention of ever releasing a toolset again for future products.

reactionimagethatdisplaysmyamusedexpressionwhenheignoresthelinktothemodthatdoesexactlythisinhersig.jpg

The toolset never helped anyone make meshes, people.

Not once did I use the toolset for Diversified Follower Armors. And since Maria's credits involve writing rather than design work, I'm 99% sure that she didn't use the toolset either.

[FieryDove]

ipgd wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

Ugly is subjective. The only thing I thought was...unpleasant were mage hats. I also do not like robes/dresses in general and won't wear them in DA2 either. I miss AW just for that...sigh

They have some objectively horrible anatomy.
Look at these collarbones. LOOK AT THEM. They hurt me on a level you can't even begin to fathom. And, really, putting cleavage without actually lifting the breasts of the mesh??? Oh my god it looks like her boobies are made of water.

This causes me literal physical pain. I am not even exaggerating. My chest really starts to hurt when I look at this.

That is the body model not the armor doing that. I complained about this when DAO came out because...I have a collar bone that sticks out just like that. I didn't want my character to reflect that also.

Maybe that is why I enjoyed the ancient elven armor so much....hides that. Or maybe I just loved the armor design. Or both.

Modifié par FieryDove, 07 septembre 2011 - 11:58 .

[Merci357]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...


We can already do that ourselves.

4) Express character

Not BioWare's job.

No, it is exactly BioWare's job to express character - for our companions. DA:O or DA2 are not Icewind Dale.