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Why emphasis on iconic look of party?


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#376
ipgd

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FieryDove wrote...

That is the model not the armor doing that. I complained about this when DAO came out because...I have a collar bone that sticks out just like that. I didn't want my character to reflect that also. Posted Image

Maybe that is why I enjoyed the ancient elven armor so much....hides that. Or maybe I just loved the armor design. Or both.

Everything below the neck is part of that armor.

I mean, don't get me wrong, this is hideous too:

Posted Image

*shudders* ARMPITS, BIOWARE :crying:

But that collarbone problem is... especially bad on the leather armors. I mean, did they make that on Bring Your Child To Work Day?

Modifié par ipgd, 08 septembre 2011 - 12:03 .


#377
Dragoonlordz

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ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Not once did I use the toolset for Diversified Follower Armors. And since Maria's credits involve writing rather than design work, I'm 99% sure that she didn't use the toolset either.


Yadda yadda yadda, I was taking a guess based on last time I modded anything. Last actual game I made was back in the days of Visual Basic and last time I created a level or armour was back in the the early to mid 90's of which did use a toolset at that time personally so ex~squeeze' me for assuming such things were still used. :lol:

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 08 septembre 2011 - 12:02 .


#378
tmp7704

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ipgd wrote...

Look at these collarbones. LOOK AT THEM. They hurt me on a level you can't even begin to fathom. And, really, putting cleavage without actually lifting the breasts of the mesh??? Oh my god it looks like her boobies are made of water.

This causes me literal physical pain. I am not even exaggerating. My chest really starts to hurt when I look at this.

I can sympathize; there's some unhealthy level of fascination with the normal maps at BioWare ;/

#379
Dragoonlordz

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ipgd wrote...

Everything below the neck is part of that armor.

I mean, don't get me wrong, this is hideous too:

Posted Image

*shudders* ARMPITS, BIOWARE :crying:

But that collarbone problem is... especially bad on the leather armors. I mean, did they make that on Bring Your Child To Work day?


How dare you! That is epic. Fatten her up and make her green plox. :P

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 08 septembre 2011 - 12:05 .


#380
_Aine_

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I think a good majority of it is just money. they have deadlines, and people wanting a few origins, different armours etc, just takes up their time. they would rather have a kind-of-decent game out there FAST than have a really detailed game out there every 3-5 years instead of less than two.

Also, they are kind of slowly sliding away from the " here is a world with a plot, develop YOUR story" into a " Here is our story, feel free to live as you choose within the rules we give you."

Saying that, I am neither supporting nor criticising. That is just how I see it. Money saving, and effective for keeping their story the way they want it told.

EDIT:  And about those collar bones.... the postural position of the entire body doesn't help that.  It is kind of ape-like, really which angles the shoulders forward and down. :/  

Modifié par shantisands, 08 septembre 2011 - 12:11 .


#381
DamnThoseDisplayNames

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...
If I think it sucks, and they gave us a toolset, then I should really just go fix it myself.

Would't you break at least some of the rules of the game? Say, in BG1 you can only have 40 arrows in one inventory slot, which makes it harder to spam everything with bows. And EasyMod let's you stack 1000 arrows, and everyone seems OK with it.
Considering some armor can give unique abilities and everything, changing everyone's armor into full dragonbone when they inted to wear something different can change games difficulty.
But I'm just nitpicking of course.

*shudders* ARMPITS, BIOWARE

Well it's kinda a bad design and anatomy problem, does't have much to do with armor switching.
You forgot to mention famous DAO underwear. *chukle*

#382
Guest_Fandango_*

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ipgd wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Ha, I figured you would make the case for less in the way of added value on behalf of your beloved Bioware.

Answer the question. What would you have them cut? They do not have unlimited time or funds. Framing suggestions as if they do is unrealistic.

I would be perfectly fine with a system where each companion has his or her unique body model which armor deforms to. However, I am also cognizant of the fact this is way more resource intensive than any other method and that I don't think it warrants diverting resources from areas that are way more important than the entire issue of companion armor.


What’s with that and how on earth do you know what is ‘prohibitively resource intensive’ anyway?

Because I know how the armor fitting works and it's incredibly time consuming and tedious?

Here, Ish. Come tell this guy how time consuming and tedious it is with your sick modding messiah credentials.



Wha? Listen, you’ll get no argument from me that the provision of visual customisation will take no little work (I made that very point in an earlier post), but enough already with guff like this:

ipgd wrote...
The existence of a system where a follower can be switched into a generic body model does negatively affect the implementation of any unique body/armor model, insofar as it restricts the followers' body types so that they cannot significantly diverge from the default model without being immediately jarring when swapped from unique>generic body.


Why make this claim (and not just in this thread) before surrendering that all it would take is a little more development time? I mean, the first point is plain wrong and the second blatantly obvious!

And to answer your question, I would make not a single concession and instead do the work to put back into Dragon Age 3 what was so needlessly removed from Origins!

Here, Ish; tell this guy to put down his pom poms and get a clue!  

#383
Maconbar

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DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

You forgot to mention famous DAO underwear. *chukle*

Maybe that's why BW went to iconic looks.Posted Image

#384
tmp7704

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ipgd wrote...

But that collarbone problem is... especially bad on the leather armors. I mean, did they make that on Bring Your Child To Work Day?

Eh, i agreed about the whole silly fake cleavage thing, but as far as the collar bones go, what's so hideous? That they go bit lower than they should, or is that something else that i'm missing? Just getting confused because it feels like an odd detail to single out when there's plenty far easier to see problems with the default models.

#385
DamnThoseDisplayNames

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Maybe that's why BW went to iconic looks.

To dress Merril like a w**** from local brothel?

#386
mesmerizedish

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DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Maybe that's why BW went to iconic looks.

To dress Merril like a w**** from local brothel?


Are you daft? The whore was dressed like her!!!

#387
Maria Caliban

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DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Maybe that's why BW went to iconic looks.

To dress Merril like a w**** from local brothel?

Your local brothels appear to be very different from mine. The chainmail and scarf look hasn't caught on in Nevada.

#388
mesmerizedish

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Maria Caliban wrote...

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Maybe that's why BW went to iconic looks.

To dress Merril like a w**** from local brothel?

Your local brothels appear to be very different from mine. The chainmail and scarf look hasn't caught on in Nevada.


Pfft. Your brothels are governmentally-regulated. We get away with chainmail and scarves out East.

#389
DamnThoseDisplayNames

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ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
Are you daft? The whore was dressed like her!!!


Ah. Makes sense.

#390
Quinnzel

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Maria Caliban wrote...

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Maybe that's why BW went to iconic looks.

To dress Merril like a w**** from local brothel?

Your local brothels appear to be very different from mine. The chainmail and scarf look hasn't caught on in Nevada.


I yearn for the day when chainmail is mandatory in brothels.

#391
Darth Krytie

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Maria Caliban wrote...

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Maybe that's why BW went to iconic looks.

To dress Merril like a w**** from local brothel?

Your local brothels appear to be very different from mine. The chainmail and scarf look hasn't caught on in Nevada.


This made me laugh for a ridiculous amount of time.

#392
PanosSmirnakos

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I must be in the minority of old-school RPG fans who found the iconic armory/outfits of companions in DA II as one of the few changes which was positive. For example in DA:O, I could not imagine Morrigan to wear something else than her "witch of the wilds" style of robes or Wynne to wear something else than "circle of magi" style of robes... and you get the point. I always tried to find gear which was close to the personality of each companion or find a mod which was about about a unique outfit for a certain companion, so the iconic looks of DA II party saved me the trouble and time to do that... As long as my character has total freedom to choose my own armory / weaponry, I'm satisfied.

Planescape - Torment which is one of the best cRPGs ever with IMO the most weird, deep and interesting companions had also the approach of iconic looks for the party and I think their unique appearance was one of the many factors for presenting such memorable characters. Of course they had excellent backstories and depth as characters, so their way of looking was something secondary which at the end, added something extra to the overall result. It's a black or white decision for Bioware I think and I hope they won't choose something between the two options. It won't be successful.

Modifié par PanosSmirnakos, 08 septembre 2011 - 12:31 .


#393
FieryDove

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ipgd wrote...

But that collarbone problem is... especially bad on the leather armors. I mean, did they make that on Bring Your Child To Work Day?


I just loaded up a new character. (fresh dao install with some dlc and awakening)

Did they tone down the collarbone in a patch? I tried a lower rez and it was the same. Much improved on a dwarf commoner with/without leather armor looked the same in my game.

#394
bEVEsthda

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Stanley Woo wrote...

How about this: why do you capitalize the EVE in your screen name? And why have an avatar? Obviously this means something to you or you identify with some part of it. Here on BSN, now that I've been reading the thread, I recognize instantly where you are posting. "Hey, that EVE and that avatar appears. That must be bEVEsthda, whose name I get confused with Bethesda all the time." Bam, you've become, in some way, instantly recognizable and contextual to a certain place, character or viewpoint.

So why, on our forums, did you choose to represent yourself with something with such bad capitalization? I would prefer it if you capitalized your screen name correctly, just as I would prefer for hoorayforicecream to space out her name correctly. You spell out and correctly capitalize your name for official forms and at school and work, don't you? How difficult would it be to correctly capitalize and space your screen name for the BSN? 
I mean, you could argue that it's your account and you should be able to do what you want with it. You could also give me various reasons why your screen name is the way it is. But I, Volus that I am, can not think of a single reason why you wouldn't capitalize and spell your screen name correctly here. Can you justify why I shouldn't be able to have your screen name appear exactly as I would like it on the forum? Because I take my English language very seriously.


It's tempting to kinda assume the question is rethorical, and meant to make a point rather than meant to be answered. Still: The foundation of the name is that I wanted you to think of Bethesda. I chose that as a sort of childishly spiteful declaration that Bioware (since DA2) is no longer my favourite developer, Bethesda now is (of course, since I'm never on Bethesda's forums, but quite frequently here, that may not be the whole subconscious truth). The EVE capitalization is something I've often regretted, it stands out too much. But I didn't want to be completely confused with Bethesda. I wanted a visible difference. It was made in the moment and now I'm stuck with my name. But sure, if I now must change to Bevesthda? I'd be very cool with that. But wouldn't it be even more likely to be mistaken for Bethesda then?


If you would care to, I'd like to know just how you "marketing" or "presenting" yourself on this forum is, at its core, different from us wanting to "market" or "present" our characters a certain way.:)

I think we're fine on that point, as long as the reason for distinctive looks becoming iconic looks, that is enforced on me in my gameplay, is only due to resource management. Market and present your characters with your distinctive looks all you want. But this thing does change somewhat, the day there is no other reason, but you still don't allow me to fit armour #4, just because you think Isabela absolutely shall **** around in a short dress in my party, no matter what. In that case, the flavor of the game has changed considerably from BG and DA:O. Is the question - "What is it to you, how Isabela appears in my game?" - really so unreasonable to you?  Do you hang over my shoulder?


I would also be interested in hearing whether you would allow me to dictate your BSN avatar and sig block, because after all, it should be the audience's choice what to accept, right?

Really? I can think of so many angles and so many things wrong with this comparison and question, that I hardly know where to begin.
Let's start with: Why do you allow us to customize our avatar? And why do you allow us to customize our player char?
And is your question a hint that this practice will cease in the future? Maybe next time we'll be forced to play default Hawke? Would that have greater marketing opportunities? Surely a recognizable Hawke is even more important than party members?

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 08 septembre 2011 - 12:34 .


#395
ipgd

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tmp7704 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

But that collarbone problem is... especially bad on the leather armors. I mean, did they make that on Bring Your Child To Work Day?

Eh, i agreed about the whole silly fake cleavage thing, but as far as the collar bones go, what's so hideous? That they go bit lower than they should, or is that something else that i'm missing? Just getting confused because it feels like an odd detail to single out when there's plenty far easier to see problems with the default models.

It's a Thing. Collarbones are my measure of a bad figure in pretty much every area of art. Their butchery bothers me in a very personal way.


Fandango9641 wrote...

Why make this claim (and not just in this thread) before surrendering that all it would take is a little more development time? I mean, the first point is plain wrong and the second blatantly obvious!

And to answer your question, I would make not a single concession and instead do the work to put back into Dragon Age 3 what was so needlessly removed from Origins!

Here, Ish; tell this guy to put down his pom poms and get a clue! 

... Um, for the reasons I explicitly explained in the posts you quoted?

Facts:
A) Having both a unique body system and a swappable armor system is significantly more resource intensive than either DAO or DA2's systems.
B) Bioware does not have unlimited resources.
C) Because Bioware does not have unlimited resources, in order to increase the resources concentrated in one area of development, resources must be diverted away from another area of development.
D) I do not think a unique body/swappable armor system is big enough of an improvement over either DAO, DA2 or Laidlaw's proposed systems to justify the cost of taking resources out of other areas of development that I believe are more important.
E) I think the entire issue of companion armor is less important than most of the other areas of development.
F) In the absence of significantly increased resources in this area, the methods people have suggested they could implement that would be within the ballpark of the resource alotments of DAO and DA2 would have obvious problems of implementation (i.e. the body morphing thing).

I haven't contradicted myself at all here. I've never denied that this kind of system was technically possible. I clearly explained what I think and you have ignored the words I am saying in favor of gesticulating wildly and insulting me.

#396
DamnThoseDisplayNames

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Your local brothels appear to be very different from mine. The chainmail and scarf look hasn't caught on in Nevada.

You should visit me, then, Maria. I'll open the whole new world for you.
We have matryoshkas here.

...(wait, why for the Seven Hells I answer this).

#397
Maconbar

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DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...


Maybe that's why BW went to iconic looks.

To dress Merril like a w**** from local brothel?

No, becuase they didn't know how to do undergarments.

#398
DamnThoseDisplayNames

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Facts:
A) Having both a unique body system and a swappable armor system is significantly more resource intensive than either DAO or DA2's systems.
B) Bioware does not have unlimited resources.
C) Because Bioware does not have unlimited resources, in order to increase the resources concentrated in one area of development, resources must be diverted away from another area of development.


I don't get why you care for time and health of 3D modellers that much. Should't any gamer actually demand more, than less?
Say, Mass Effect 2 was done the way you see is more resoursful, what did we get out of this, a handful of minigames? I guess I'd be convinced if characters got iconic looks, and for that we could speak with them any time anywhere like in DA:O with branches and branches of voiced dialogue, or had a hundred of new weapons, but?..

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 08 septembre 2011 - 12:34 .


#399
hoorayforicecream

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Fandango9641 wrote...

And to answer your question, I would make not a single concession and instead do the work to put back into Dragon Age 3 what was so needlessly removed from Origins!


I would prefer not to return to all of the armors in each weight type being retextures of each other. :?

#400
Guest_Puddi III_*

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DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Your local brothels appear to be very different from mine. The chainmail and scarf look hasn't caught on in Nevada.

You should visit me, then, Maria. I'll open the whole new world for you.
We have matryoshkas here.

...(wait, why for the Seven Hells I answer this).


You have hoes inside of hoes inside of hoes?