791 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Exactly. Moreso, she's a duelist and swashbuckler. Her fighting style involves parries and acrobatics while fighting herds of minions. Not taking hits.

Bs. Duelist is someone who duels - fights only one enemy. You can't survive being a duelist when tweny templars in full plate mail jump on you from the rooftop. There is no way to dodge each and every strike when one is outnumbered so hard, at least some blows shall land. Armor is essential for survival, and that's why people invented it.
Meyh. Applying common sense and real fighting styles to that character is useless no matter what exactly you want to prove - be it her thongs are stupid or that she is a "rogue".

1:Talk to Izzy in DAO
2:Learn what duelist means in DA
3:????
4:Profit

[tmp7704]

Monica21 wrote...

When you arrange your party you're essentially doing the RPG equivalent of going over to your friend's house and asking if they can come out to play. You don't then toss them clothes and say, "Well, you'd better wear this instead." 

You do realize the system for DA3 as currently described will let you select which of the 'iconic appearances' the companions are going to wear, which effectively goes against this whole "omg companions are their own people, you don't tell people what they should dress up like!" line of arguing..?

[Monica21]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...
Bs. Duelist is someone who duels - fights only one enemy. You can't survive being a duelist when tweny templars in full plate mail jump on you from the rooftop. There is no way to dodge each and every strike when one is outnumbered so hard, at least some blows shall land. Armor is essential for survival, and that's why people invented it.
Meyh. Applying common sense and real fighting styles to that character is useless no matter what exactly you want to prove - be it her thongs are stupid or that she is a "rogue".

I'll BS to your BS. "Armor is essential for survival." Really? Really? Because my character should totes be dead.



She might be wearing a thong under that armor though. 

[Monica21]

tmp7704 wrote...
You do realize the system for DA3 as currently described will let you select which of the 'iconic appearances' the companions are going to wear, which effectively goes against this whole "omg companions are their own people, you don't tell people what they should dress up like!" line of arguing..?

I do. And it's a compromise for people who are screaming about not being able to play dress up. And I'm pretty sure you overstated my argument. <_<

[Siven80]

I like the unique/iconic looks.

For me the iconic looks help the character visually stand out from the crowd. Of course good dialogue does that too, but your first see someone it is the way they look you first notice.

For me Morrigan didnt look right if she wasnt wearing "her" outfit.
Leliana didnt look right without "her" sacred ashes outfit (ah lovely mods).

The ME2 and DA2 companions generally looked good in their unique outfits and were memorable. How many DAO cosplayers were there compared to ME2 or DA2?

Having said that, having the option to change their looks, either by unlocking, or looting more companion outfits is also great as it allows more visual customisation (2-4 per character is a good number i think).

Of course i would also expect proper visual appearance in areas where it makes sense. Like wearing helmets out in space (unless hide helmet option is on) or as someone mentioned above, characters dressed as guards or chantry sisters trying to sneak in somewhere.

Now add the options to change stats depending on the build or situations and i'm happy.

While im not sure about the lore specifics I would prefer a modular system, something like expanding the enchantments system by armor having say 3 or 4 rune slots and having more enchantment options available, whether its base stats, attack, defense, armor or elemental resistances and use them as inter-changeable armor upgrades.

[tmp7704]

Monica21 wrote...

And I'm pretty sure you overstated my argument. <_<

Not to mention that Isabela is a grown up with her own housing arrangements and can dress herself. I don't think she'd take too kindly to me dictating what she wears.

No, i don't think i did

(it's no different than referring to people who want to choose the looks of their companions as "people who want to play dress up")

Modifié par tmp7704, 08 septembre 2011 - 04:25 .

[Monica21]

tmp7704 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

And I'm pretty sure you overstated my argument. <_<

Not to mention that Isabela is a grown up with her own housing arrangements and can dress herself. I don't think she'd take too kindly to me dictating what she wears.

No, i don't think i did

Yes, you did. Choosing their own iconic looks doesn't take away the fact that you will still have extremely limited options when it comes to dressing your characters.

[Monica21]

tmp7704 wrote...
(it's no different than referring to people who want to choose the looks of their companions as "people who want to
play dress up")

"Grrr" at editing while I'm responding. 

I don't really care if people want to choose what their companions wear. I just really don't think it's A Big Deal. I want other things. I want a better story, I want non-ninja combat moves, and I want choice and consequence. I don't care what Isabela wears when she fights. Frankly, what my DA3 companions are wearing is the least of my concerns about the game.

[Cutlass Jack]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Exactly. Moreso, she's a duelist and swashbuckler. Her fighting style involves parries and acrobatics while fighting herds of minions. Not taking hits.

Bs. Duelist is someone who duels - fights only one enemy. You can't survive being a duelist when tweny templars in full plate mail jump on you from the rooftop. There is no way to dodge each and every strike when one is outnumbered so hard, at least some blows shall land. Armor is essential for survival, and that's why people invented it.
Meyh. Applying common sense and real fighting styles to that character is useless no matter what exactly you want to prove - be it her thongs are stupid or that she is a "rogue".

No, I was applying cinematic fighting styles in a fantasy game. Errol Flynn or Zorro parrying the attacks of a dozen men while fighting up stairs. That sort of thing. Which is what her Swashbuckling tree is meant to evoke. Thats why her bonuses get better the more opponents she fights.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 08 septembre 2011 - 04:37 .

[alex90c]

Monica21 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
(it's no different than referring to people who want to choose the looks of their companions as "people who want to
play dress up")

"Grrr" at editing while I'm responding. 

I don't really care if people want to choose what their companions wear. I just really don't think it's A Big Deal. I want other things. I want a better story, I want non-ninja combat moves, and I want choice and consequence. I don't care what Isabela wears when she fights. Frankly, what my DA3 companions are wearing is the least of my concerns about the game.

At least we can agree there

[hoorayforicecream]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Exactly. Moreso, she's a duelist and swashbuckler. Her fighting style involves parries and acrobatics while fighting herds of minions. Not taking hits.

Bs. Duelist is someone who duels - fights only one enemy. You can't survive being a duelist when tweny templars in full plate mail jump on you from the rooftop. There is no way to dodge each and every strike when one is outnumbered so hard, at least some blows shall land. Armor is essential for survival, and that's why people invented it.
Meyh. Applying common sense and real fighting styles to that character is useless no matter what exactly you want to prove - be it her thongs are stupid or that she is a "rogue".

No, I was applying cinematic fighting styles in a fantasy game. Catch up please. Errol Flynn or Zorro parrying the attacks of a dozen men while fighting up stairs. That sort of thing. Which is what her Swashbuckling tree is meant to evoke. Thats why her bonuses get better the more opponents she fights.

That guy must utterly abhor Bruce Lee's movies then. :innocent:

[tmp7704]

Monica21 wrote...

Yes, you did. Choosing their own iconic looks doesn't take away the fact that you will still have extremely limited options when it comes to dressing your characters.

The number of options is irrelevant when the argument is being made whether it's "right" to be able to have choice at all.

[Sanguinerin]

Monica21 wrote...

I don't really care if people want to choose what their companions wear. I just really don't think it's A Big Deal. I want other things. I want a better story, I want non-ninja combat moves, and I want choice and consequence. I don't care what Isabela wears when she fights. Frankly, what my DA3 companions are wearing is the least of my concerns about the game.

I'll agree with you on that. Personally, I do not like one static appearance for companions. I like change, preferably doing it on my own, but if they naturally progress themselves either by getting further in the story or buying upgrades, then that would make me happy (basically, I'm willing to compromise on how they change, just that they do actually get to change somewhat, somehow). Still, I probably wouldn't mind a set of unchanging, static-looking companions if not giving them all more appearances actually helped the game have a better implemented story, or better looking combat, or more decisions. I think, since that didn't happen though, it just stands out as one more area of what went wrong.

Modifié par HallowedWarden, 08 septembre 2011 - 04:44 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

That guy must utterly abhor Bruce Lee's movies then.

I respect Bruce Lee and always enjoyed asian action movies, even oldest ones with dudes flying in kimonos tied to a strings being drunk at the same time.

I don't remember many of them fighting hoards of armored medieval knights (though I remember one where dude smashed living metal statues).

[FieryDove]

Monica21 wrote...

When you arrange your party you're essentially doing the RPG equivalent of going over to your friend's house and asking if they can come out to play. You don't then toss them clothes and say, "Well, you'd better wear this instead." 

This argument is not good.

I have said this as have other before:

Do you tell your friend what spell/talent to take at lvl up? Do you tell your friend to attack that, move over there, cast a heal or throw fireball? Do you tell your friend what jewelry to wear? Do you tell your friend to equip this longsword instead of that one? No? So equipping a breatplate on top of all that is bad...yes I see the light now.

Maybe things will change in the future to not have companions at all. That would save lots of zots. While we are at it have an iconic male only PC like Geralt. More zots saved. With all the money saved we can finally get what is important which is guns, cannons, chainsaws and the most important thing - flamethrowers!

Monica21 wrote...

<snip>
Really? Really? Because my character should totes be dead.

I agree. Meat cleavers for weapons is an insult to rogues worldwide. (Joke - but that pic was funny)

[hoorayforicecream]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

That guy must utterly abhor Bruce Lee's movies then.

I respect Bruce Lee and always enjoyed asian action movies, even oldest ones with dudes flying in kimonos tied to a strings being drunk at the same time.

I don't remember many of them fighting hoards of armored medieval knights (though I remember one where dude smashed living metal statues).

Realistically speaking, if twenty dudes charged Bruce Lee, Bruce Lee would probably get the crap kicked out of him. But you can accept that in a movie, when Bruce Lee can fight it out with twenty nameless dudes, it doesn't break immersion.

Why is it so hard to believe that the dudes wearing armor suddenly changes it from 'acceptable' to 'unacceptable'? I've seen Conan take on hordes of dudes in a loincloth and a grimace. Do you hate those too? You don't see the tiniest bit of double standard nit pickiness here?

Never mind. Common sense, realism, and so forth. Whatevs.

[Collider]

Hawke also gets impaled by several arrows and spears like the picture posted in this thread, yet somehow survives.

[elearon1]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
Realistically speaking, if twenty dudes charged Bruce Lee, Bruce Lee would probably get the crap kicked out of him. But you can accept that in a movie, when Bruce Lee can fight it out with twenty nameless dudes, it doesn't break immersion.

Realistically speaking, the number of people who can attack you effectively at one time in hand to hand is 4 - if they're using polearms, possibly 6-8.  Bruce Lee could totally kick the crap out of 4 rubes at a time - he is WAY higher level than the generic movie cannon fodder. 

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

I've seen Conan take on hordes of dudes in a loincloth and a grimace.

From what I've read from Howard, Conan did't wear fur pants that often, and was't invincible.

Never mind. Common sense, realism, and so forth. Whatevs.

Suspension of disbelief. In a right way. Not the way which fans use it to make every, even the most over the top and ridiculous thing in the setting sound reasonable somehow.
Also, my own body experience says that armor is good. I can't handle Isabel being more effective in combat than Aveline.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 08 septembre 2011 - 05:10 .

[elearon1]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

I've seen Conan take on hordes of dudes in a loincloth and a grimace.

From what I've read from Howard, Conan did't wear fur pants that often, and was't invincible.

That's one of those things that always bothers me with some depictions of Conan.  In Howard's stories Conan often wore armor, though for some reason you get these comic books and some films which make it seem as though he does all his battles in his underwear.  Didn't happen, man ... even Conan needs more than just his iron hard abs to turn aside sword blows. (and if Conan can't do it - no one can) 

That said, in video games it doesn't bother me much ... it's a game and I understand the *why* of those decisions.  Besides which, I'd rather have to see Varric to into battle in his pimping chest-man outfit than see him trade it off for plate mail which I have to look at him in the when we're not in combat.  This kind of "fighting without armor" is a staple of a lot of fantasy fiction and film ... and, really, who wants to see Errol Flynn running around in chain mail? 

Modifié par elearon1, 08 septembre 2011 - 05:19 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

I'd rather have to see Varric to into battle in his pimping chest-man outfit

Well, he is a ranged combatant afterall.

[hoorayforicecream]

elearon1 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...
Realistically speaking, if twenty dudes charged Bruce Lee, Bruce Lee would probably get the crap kicked out of him. But you can accept that in a movie, when Bruce Lee can fight it out with twenty nameless dudes, it doesn't break immersion.

Realistically speaking, the number of people who can attack you effectively at one time in hand to hand is 4 - if they're using polearms, possibly 6-8.  Bruce Lee could totally kick the crap out of 4 rubes at a time - he is WAY higher level than the generic movie cannon fodder. 

And Isabela's way higher level than generic minion fodder too. And she's not as good against the normal, lieutenant or boss enemies. So... there's no problem, right? Isabela's clothes are fine.

[TheJediSaint]

I would like to point out that characters that you would expect to be taking hits, such as Aveline and Fenris, do wear armor. Aveline always fighters with a shield and is generally wearing full plate. Fenris wears a minimalist breast plate, while his ability to phase has as much defensive as offensive applications. For non-warriors, I would like to point out that Merril wears chainmail and even Isabela wears discrete bits of armor.

[Loc'n'lol]

Whatever you do, just keep it reasonably easy to mod, well on the PC... Everyone has diverging opinions on how things should be done, modding allows players to customize the game to suit their preference.
Also official modding tools couldn't hurt...

[MerinTB]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
Isabela's clothes are fine.

I don't recognize the universe where that statement makes any sense.

And there's me being snarky, so call me a hypocrite...