791 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
There was a fair amount of polarization about the characters. How many of these topics are familiar?

- They're all bi
- Isabela is a ****
- Merrill is stupid
- Why can't I romance Aveline?
- Why can't I romance Varric?
- Why can't I romance Bethany?
- I hate Carver
- I hate Fenris
- I hate Anders

... etc.

Well, that's a shallower degree of polarization than arguing whether Loghain is a traitor or not. I mean, yeah, I think Fenris is a whiny emo girl but there really isn't anything to debate other than "no he's not" "yes he is." You know? The characters are just shallow.

[Tommy6860]

Mr.House wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...


We are willing to lose some (meaning,  alot of) fans if they feel we no longer provide the kind of game they are looking for. Some (meaning, a lot of) people are not willing to accept us making games they don't like.

fixed

Well, congrats, Bioware already achieved that with DA2 and the numbers glaringly reflected that, as shown from how many of DA2 sales came on pre-orders based on those who experienced Origins. If you're willing to keep sales low, then so be it. The only way to draw a substantial profit going this route, is by a quick turnover of the sequel releases, and we know what that will entail. You'd be best to sticking to being the harsh draconian moderator here, than attempting PR as an actual rep for Bioware.

Not everyone that bought DAO liked it, thus no reason to buy DA2.

That's besides the point. Many people who never played DA:O, and bought DA2, didn't like DA2 as well (see, I can do this as well). But none of this correlates to the sales between the two, does it? Stanley would have done better not making that comment, because when a company wants to include their ioverall sales to be for the overall crowd, dismissing a certain portion of it won't help matters there.

DAO solder over 4 mil, but also took over three years to make.

DA2 sold 2 mil and had less then two years of dev.

DA2 made more profit for EA, like it or not.Bioware is owned by EA, if EA wants Bioware to rush to make a quick buck then Bioware has to do that.

How do you know DA2 made more profit? As we speak right now Origins is and has been for months now, still outselling DA2. In fact, I have seen where Origins and DA2 are the same price now. I know who owns Bioware, that doesn't matter and I am not contending that what EA wants Bioware to do, only that the results are not good for overall sales. When you see devs come in here and say they wished they had done things differently with DA2, that is very telling. They wouldn't be making thsoe claims had the sales been through the roof, they be claiming that the choices made in DA2 in the direction they took it from DA:O, was for the best; I haven't seen that at all, ever.

[Yrkoon]

Stanley Woo wrote...
The modern gamer doesn't want to know what THAC0 is, couldn't care less whether Choking Cloud gives you a -2 or -3 to Acrobatics, and who chooses Fire Arrow over Fireball not because it does more damage, but because it looks friggin' BOSS when it explodes on the Mayonnaise Elemental's face!

Oh Neat!  You're like, the Howard Stern of the Gaming industry.  Shocking the establishment one  radical quip at a time!

PS:  The modern gamer you're  referring to is about 12 years old.    Which is fine, except you shouldn't be trying to speak for them while  pretending to put out mature rated games

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 septembre 2011 - 12:54 .

[Tommy6860]

billy the squid wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...


We are willing to lose some (meaning,  alot of) fans if they feel we no longer provide the kind of game they are looking for. Some (meaning, a lot of) people are not willing to accept us making games they don't like.

fixed

Well, congrats, Bioware already achieved that with DA2 and the numbers glaringly reflected that, as shown from how many of DA2 sales came on pre-orders based on those who experienced Origins. If you're willing to keep sales low, then so be it. The only way to draw a substantial profit going this route, is by a quick turnover of the sequel releases, and we know what that will entail. You'd be best to sticking to being the harsh draconian moderator here, than attempting PR as an actual rep for Bioware.

Not everyone that bought DAO liked it, thus no reason to buy DA2.

That's besides the point. Many people who never played DA:O, and bought DA2, didn't like DA2 as well (see, I can do this as well). But none of this correlates to the sales between the two, does it? Stanley would have done better not making that comment, because when a company wants to include their ioverall sales to be for the overall crowd, dismissing a certain portion of it won't help matters there.

DAO solder over 4 mil, but also took over three years to make.

DA2 sold 2 mil and had less then two years of dev.

DA2 made more profit for EA, like it or not.Bioware is owned by EA, if EA wants Bioware to rush to make a quick buck then Bioware has to do that.

Opportunity cost, IP equity, market penetration, future IP profitability potential are factors involved in EA's thinking when financing such a product, so why such a tight time frmae was given I'm unsure, things are not restricted to short term profit margins. DA2 seems to be a move to fill a window in EA's fiscal year in their report to shareholders rather than giving the product adequate time. How much this and the shift in current design direction has damaged the IP and its ability to garner a larger segement in the new market, where DA2 doesn't seem to have had much impact, is currently unknown.

Good points. The pre-orders of DA2 were substantial because of the impact that DA:O had in sales and popularity, and that's where the meat of DA2's sales came from. That reflected well right off for profits, then fell completely off the charts within a few weeks. So, I think, how many of those people who bought into DA2 are going to make preorders for DA3. Me thinks it will be substantially less than DA2 because of the experience, and of course, because there weren't nearly as many sales of DA2. I know this, Bioware lost automatic purchases from me because of the DA2 experience and also how ME3 seems to be going. Up until DA2, I bought Biware games without ever considering my friend's, other gamer's or online reviews, I just got them and never looked back; not anymore.

[ipgd]

Monica21 wrote...

Well, that's a shallower degree of polarization than arguing whether Loghain is a traitor or not. I mean, yeah, I think Fenris is a whiny emo girl but there really isn't anything to debate other than "no he's not" "yes he is." You know? The characters are just shallow.

The Anderps thread went on for a good 3-4 months after release with about 30 pages every single day filled with actual non-squee related discussion. It's the only character thread I've ever seen that actually maintained that level of substantive discussion for so long, actually. Have you actually read any of the character debate threads on the board?

[syllogi]

Morroian wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Honestly, I will totally admit I was wrong if an iconic appearance system in DA3 is well implemented for those who want even partial choice in their party's visual customization, but strategic gameplay is the hill I die upon.  If we're really being told not to expect it in Bioware RPGs anymore, I guess that's the tipping point for me.

Where are we being told that by Bioware? If anything its the opposite everything they've said about Legacy and going forward is that there is going to be a bigger focus on encounter design and tactics.

I'm referring to the discussion in this thread, earlier today, of Stanley Woo's post here.  

Personally, actions speak louder than words, and while Legacy was a step in the right direction, the boss fight was *really* hurt by poor party AI.  

I just don't believe that strategic, challenging combat has to be sacrificed in order to appeal to the masses.  World of Warcraft starts you off hacking at kobolds and fetching boar meat, but if you take the time, and the effort, you are rewarded by high end PVE raiding.  Most people don't take advantage of it, but it's something to aspire to, it's something to strive for, and if all you are given by a game is "press button, get awesome", it's not going to hold my attention for very long.

[Mr.House]

Bioware didn't work on a new engine for DA2, there's a huge chunk of money gone from developing. Game was also shorter and didn't have as much content as DA2. Whatever this will help Bioware and EA in the future however is to be seen, since people on this site act like one bad game means the rest of the games will suck.

[Zjarcal]

Monica21 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...
There was a fair amount of polarization about the characters. How many of these topics are familiar?

- They're all bi
- Isabela is a ****
- Merrill is stupid
- Why can't I romance Aveline?
- Why can't I romance Varric?
- Why can't I romance Bethany?
- I hate Carver
- I hate Fenris
- I hate Anders

... etc.

Well, that's a shallower degree of polarization than arguing whether Loghain is a traitor or not. I mean, yeah, I think Fenris is a whiny emo girl but there really isn't anything to debate other than "no he's not" "yes he is." You know? The characters are just shallow.

To you perhaps.

To me they're on the same level as the DAO characters.

[Atakuma]

Yrkoon wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
The modern gamer doesn't want to know what THAC0 is, couldn't care less whether Choking Cloud gives you a -2 or -3 to Acrobatics, and who chooses Fire Arrow over Fireball not because it does more damage, but because it looks friggin' BOSS when it explodes on the Mayonnaise Elemental's face!

Oh Neat!  You're like, the Howard Stern of the Gaming industry.  Shocking the establishment one  radical quip at a time!

PS:  The modern gamer you're  referring to is about 12 years old.    Which is fine, except you shouldn't be trying to speak for them while  pretending to put out mature rated games

No, they are just people who find doing math problems in a video game to be tedious and detrimental to their enjoyment of said game.

[Yrkoon]

^If that's true, then it brings us back to the other silly comment he made about how (his idea) of streamlining doesn't mean dumbing down. It DOES and he just admitted it with his comments.

[Tommy6860]

Zjarcal wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...
There was a fair amount of polarization about the characters. How many of these topics are familiar?

- They're all bi
- Isabela is a ****
- Merrill is stupid
- Why can't I romance Aveline?
- Why can't I romance Varric?
- Why can't I romance Bethany?
- I hate Carver
- I hate Fenris
- I hate Anders

... etc.

Well, that's a shallower degree of polarization than arguing whether Loghain is a traitor or not. I mean, yeah, I think Fenris is a whiny emo girl but there really isn't anything to debate other than "no he's not" "yes he is." You know? The characters are just shallow.

To you perhaps.

To me they're on the same level as the DAO characters.

Yes, I agree with this, if going by this very basic premise. However, in both games, I didn't play with my companions at my side to pick them apart, I let their dialogue and characterizations do that on their own. Both games did poorly if I were jsut to base the companions on this criteria alone, but we don't play them like that.

[AtreiyaN7]

Monica21 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...
There was a fair amount of polarization about the characters. How many of these topics are familiar?

- They're all bi
- Isabela is a ****
- Merrill is stupid
- Why can't I romance Aveline?
- Why can't I romance Varric?
- Why can't I romance Bethany?
- I hate Carver
- I hate Fenris
- I hate Anders

... etc.

Well, that's a shallower degree of polarization than arguing whether Loghain is a traitor or not. I mean, yeah, I think Fenris is a whiny emo girl but there really isn't anything to debate other than "no he's not" "yes he is." You know? The characters are just shallow.

Oh, so I guess you're ignoring the fact that there were plenty of polarizing debates related to Anders' actions, including whether or not he was a terrorist or a revolutionary, whether or not his actions were justified, and whether or not mages should have their freedom in light of what he did, etc. Gee whiz, I guess those Anders-related debates were totally shallow in comparison to the debate over whether or not the almighty Loghain was a traitor. Oh boy, the complex level of debate over THAT topic just overwhelms me! *snort*

[Addai]

ipgd wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Well, that's a shallower degree of polarization than arguing whether Loghain is a traitor or not. I mean, yeah, I think Fenris is a whiny emo girl but there really isn't anything to debate other than "no he's not" "yes he is." You know? The characters are just shallow.

The Anderps thread went on for a good 3-4 months after release with about 30 pages every single day filled with actual non-squee related discussion. It's the only character thread I've ever seen that actually maintained that level of substantive discussion for so long, actually. Have you actually read any of the character debate threads on the board?

To be fair, Anders was a carryover character, and also arguably the main character of DA2.

[leggywillow]

Monica21 wrote...
Well, that's a shallower degree of polarization than arguing whether Loghain is a traitor or not. I mean, yeah, I think Fenris is a whiny emo girl but there really isn't anything to debate other than "no he's not" "yes he is." You know? The characters are just shallow.

That's only your opinion and is no way an accurate assessment of DA2's characters.  Just because you can't find anything else to say about Fenris' character doesn't actually mean anything, except to you.  Which hopefully is all you were trying to say.

I personally have found much more to talk about regarding DA2's companions than DAO's.

[Mr.House]

Addai67 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Well, that's a shallower degree of polarization than arguing whether Loghain is a traitor or not. I mean, yeah, I think Fenris is a whiny emo girl but there really isn't anything to debate other than "no he's not" "yes he is." You know? The characters are just shallow.

The Anderps thread went on for a good 3-4 months after release with about 30 pages every single day filled with actual non-squee related discussion. It's the only character thread I've ever seen that actually maintained that level of substantive discussion for so long, actually. Have you actually read any of the character debate threads on the board?

To be fair, Anders was a carryover character, and also arguably the main character of DA2.

He's not the main character.

[mesmerizedish]

Mr.House wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Well, that's a shallower degree of polarization than arguing whether Loghain is a traitor or not. I mean, yeah, I think Fenris is a whiny emo girl but there really isn't anything to debate other than "no he's not" "yes he is." You know? The characters are just shallow.

The Anderps thread went on for a good 3-4 months after release with about 30 pages every single day filled with actual non-squee related discussion. It's the only character thread I've ever seen that actually maintained that level of substantive discussion for so long, actually. Have you actually read any of the character debate threads on the board?

To be fair, Anders was a carryover character, and also arguably the main character of DA2.

He's not the main character.

He's not the main character of the game.

He's possibly the main character of the story.

[Atakuma]

Yrkoon wrote...

^If that's true, then it brings us back to the other silly comment he made about how (his idea) of streamlining doesn't mean dumbing down. It DOES and he just admitted it with his comments.

It's not dumbing it down because it has nothing to do with intelligence. It's all about getting the player into the gameplay more efficiently.

[Sabariel]

Mr.House wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Well, that's a shallower degree of polarization than arguing whether Loghain is a traitor or not. I mean, yeah, I think Fenris is a whiny emo girl but there really isn't anything to debate other than "no he's not" "yes he is." You know? The characters are just shallow.

The Anderps thread went on for a good 3-4 months after release with about 30 pages every single day filled with actual non-squee related discussion. It's the only character thread I've ever seen that actually maintained that level of substantive discussion for so long, actually. Have you actually read any of the character debate threads on the board?

To be fair, Anders was a carryover character, and also arguably the main character of DA2.

He's not the main character.

Seemed like he was to me...

[Mr.House]

Sabariel wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Well, that's a shallower degree of polarization than arguing whether Loghain is a traitor or not. I mean, yeah, I think Fenris is a whiny emo girl but there really isn't anything to debate other than "no he's not" "yes he is." You know? The characters are just shallow.

The Anderps thread went on for a good 3-4 months after release with about 30 pages every single day filled with actual non-squee related discussion. It's the only character thread I've ever seen that actually maintained that level of substantive discussion for so long, actually. Have you actually read any of the character debate threads on the board?

To be fair, Anders was a carryover character, and also arguably the main character of DA2.

He's not the main character.

Seemed like he was to me...

You can ignore him for the whole game, don'r bring him anywhere and never do any of his quest after he's recruited, only playing a part near the end of the game. That's hardly a main character.

[ipgd]

Addai67 wrote...

To be fair, Anders was a carryover character, and also arguably the main character of DA2.

He was so changed from his earlier incarnation, as his detractors are so eager to point out, that I don't think that really had much of an impact. I certainly wasn't spending my time writing massive, masturbatory essays about Awakening Anders.

Fenris's pre-release thread had a ridiculous amount of hype and the Anders thread beat out its thousand page head start in just one or two months, I think.

Mr.House wrote...

He's not the main character.

He really was; he just wasn't the protagonist. Hawke was The Ishmael.

[mesmerizedish]

ipgd wrote...

He really was; he just wasn't the protagonist. Hawke was The Ishmael.

I disagree with that article entirely. I am very compelling.

[Yrkoon]

Atakuma wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

^If that's true, then it brings us back to the other silly comment he made about how (his idea) of streamlining doesn't mean dumbing down. It DOES and he just admitted it with his comments.

It's not dumbing it down because it has nothing to do with intelligence. It's all about getting the player into the gameplay more efficiently.

...By making things simpler so people don't have to <gasp> THINK.    It has everything to do with both intelligence and complexity.

Especially the way Woo worded it - saying stuff like  "the gamer  won't choose fireball over flame arrow because it does more damage, he'll choose it because it looks   "more  awesome!*"  herp-derp.

Stop disputing the  painfully OBVIOUS.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 septembre 2011 - 01:21 .

[ipgd]

Mr.House wrote...

You can ignore him for the whole game, don'r bring him anywhere and never do any of his quest after he's recruited, only playing a part near the end of the game. That's hardly a main character.

He's pretty much the catalyst for an event that apparently ended up more world-altering than the Blight was. He was the entire climax of Act 3.

[syllogi]

Mr.House wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Well, that's a shallower degree of polarization than arguing whether Loghain is a traitor or not. I mean, yeah, I think Fenris is a whiny emo girl but there really isn't anything to debate other than "no he's not" "yes he is." You know? The characters are just shallow.

The Anderps thread went on for a good 3-4 months after release with about 30 pages every single day filled with actual non-squee related discussion. It's the only character thread I've ever seen that actually maintained that level of substantive discussion for so long, actually. Have you actually read any of the character debate threads on the board?

To be fair, Anders was a carryover character, and also arguably the main character of DA2.

He's not the main character.

Seemed like he was to me...

You can ignore him for the whole game, don'r bring him anywhere and never do any of his quest after he's recruited, only playing a part near the end of the game. That's hardly a main character.

Playing DA2 and completely ignoring Anders other than getting the map from him and seeing him blow up the Chantry at the end makes Hawke basically the Forrest Gump of Thedas.