791 réponses à ce sujet

[Stanley Woo]

bEVEsthda wrote...

So the vision you have for DA now is still the same (or maybe even more evolved) what we glimpsed in DA2? A comic book style fanastic-world with fantastic-characters, inspired by transformers, Superman, Green Lantern and FF-scapes? That would explain your curious obsession with iconic looks.
I find that quite depressing.   And if my notions on why DA2 was so disliked is on the button,..
I want something completely different, a pretension of realism and the lower key medieval fantasy world of BG and DA:O.
Oh well, you make your own bed...

...And someone always says that they prefer a bunk bed in the shape of a race car.

[Addai]

Fandango9641 wrote...

I just wish Bioware would shift their focus back to empowering players with choice instead of trying to enforce their own. 

Yep.  And focusing on deeper characterization in dialogue rather than by "enforcing" static visuals.

Modifié par Addai67, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:03 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Stanley Woo wrote...

...And someone always says that they prefer a bunk bed in the shape of a race car.

To be honest, a double decker race car is probably not particularly aerodynamic. It would have to be a pretty sweet car. 

[Harid]

leonia42 wrote...

So.. if the devs took your ability to control your party members in combat away (like Mass Effect) maybe you'd realise that these AREN'T really party-based games, the only character that belongs to you (and that's rather loose given some pre-defined factors) is the Playable Character.

Your party members? They're NPCs: NON-playable characters. It's like.. playing Republic Commando.. you can issue commands in combat but they're not your personal units to fully customise as you see fit.

You can control them, directly, in Dragon Age.

They are fully able to take away control from you, ala Mass Effect, but they then better not complain about when people call their game Dragon Effect.

As it is I am not going to speak on you not having control of your party when you do.  Even when you get approved or disapproved you have more control over them than Hawke or anyone else would in that particular circumstance.

Why for instance do you get the choice in companion quests for it's resolution in the first place?  If these are their own people, they should resolve it on their own like Jacob did in ME2. 

Modifié par Harid, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:07 .

[tmp7704]

leonia42 wrote...

But outfits go a long ways towards expanding on a character's personal tastes.. you can tell from Isabela's lack of pants that she's a daring woman who doesn't care what others think of her and you can tell from Varric's tailored jacket that he is a man of taste and class.. can you tell these things simply by looking at their faces?

Except according to the short story released when the characters were revealed, Isabela's outfit isn't her conscious choice but instead something random she's managed to grab when her ship was going down. And Varric's outfit doesn't make me think "man of taste and class". It makes me instead think "a dwarf version of Guybrush Threepwood, Mighty Pirate™" and if anything conflicts with the image he otherwise projects. Such is the danger of trying to send signals through characters' outfits -- odds are, they'll get read in many different ways.

With this in mind, i think you might be doing a reverse of what you talk about, here -- that is, you take what you know about the characters' personalities as established by dialogues and events in the game, and view/interpret their clothes through this lens, thus finding confirmation of traits you already know they're supposed to possess.

[Leonia]

And I am making the point.. if you keep complaining about ridiculous things like the characters CARING about what THEY are wearing, Bioware's just going to say "you know what, take the control and the RPG away altogether" because you can't handle the characters not being fully within your grasp. You control the PC already, isn't that enough?

[Harid]

leonia42 wrote...

And I am making the point.. if you keep complaining about ridiculous things like the characters CARING about what THEY are wearing, Bioware's just going to say "you know what, take the control and the RPG away altogether" because you can't handle the characters not being fully within your grasp. You control the PC already, isn't that enough?

Then let them.

It'll let me know to stop wasting my time with this franchise directly.

However I am not going to sit here and take it while the game is still in the planning phases over fear of repercussion.  If Bioware is the type of company to do that, then they aren't worth the waste of time posting here or playing their games.

Modifié par Harid, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:09 .

[Leonia]

Harid wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

And I am making the point.. if you keep complaining about ridiculous things like the characters CARING about what THEY are wearing, Bioware's just going to say "you know what, take the control and the RPG away altogether" because you can't handle the characters not being fully within your grasp. You control the PC already, isn't that enough?

Then let them.

It'll let me know to stop wasting my time with this franchise directly.

Will you stop posting and complaining about the "Deal with it" attitude if you decide you can't deal with it?

[Harid]

leonia42 wrote...

Harid wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

And I am making the point.. if you keep complaining about ridiculous things like the characters CARING about what THEY are wearing, Bioware's just going to say "you know what, take the control and the RPG away altogether" because you can't handle the characters not being fully within your grasp. You control the PC already, isn't that enough?

Then let them.

It'll let me know to stop wasting my time with this franchise directly.

Will you stop posting and complaining about the "Deal with it" attitude if you decide you can't deal with it?

What I am saying is the very definition of dealing with it, by Bioware's own lips.

Unless to you, dealing with it is continuing to support a company that could not care less about my money?

Right now I have to deal with gear that doesn't even reflect my characters skin tone.  I can only imagine what I 'd have to deal with in the future, according to you.

Modifié par Harid, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:11 .

[Gemini1179]

Atakuma wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

The stock "Because we wanted it this way" answer just feels like such a cop out. It seems Bioware doesn't want to say "It's easier to sell companion attire DLC this way if we get you frustrated enough with one look on your companions." At least that would be honest.

That argument doesn't really fly, because if that was their intent what has prevented them from doing it with DA2?

Give it time. It was done for ME2. I'll remove it if by DA3 no companion attire DLC comes out for DA2. Although, I don't want that now that I'm pigeon-holed into it, I WANT companion attire DLC. See how that works?

[mesmerizedish]

leonia42 wrote...

You control the PC already, isn't that enough?

No, it's not.

[LiquidGrape]

bEVEsthda wrote...

I want something completely different, a pretension of realism and the lower key medieval fantasy world of BG and DA:O.
Oh well, you make your own bed...

My bed can be as messy as it likes, as long as its occupant is totally hot.

[bEVEsthda]

leonia42 wrote...

So.. if the devs took your ability to control your party members in combat away (like Mass Effect) maybe you'd realise that these AREN'T really party-based games, the only character that belongs to you (and that's rather loose given some pre-defined factors) is the Playable Character.

Your party members? They're NPCs: NON-playable characters. It's like.. playing Republic Commando.. you can issue commands in combat but they're not your personal units to fully customise as you see fit.

This is not news to us who prefer it differently.
The thing is that what we always wanted with DA was the party crpg, BG-style, and, indeed, DA:O-style. And that was also what was promised a decade ago when DA was first announced.
This is still the control scheme we want.
Your Republic Commando be damned. So you see - things are far easier than you make it.

[Leonia]

Harid wrote...

What I am saying is the very definition of dealing with it, by Bioware's own lips.

Unless to you, dealing with it is continuing to support a company that could not care less about my money?

Right now I have to deal with gear that doesn't even reflect my characters skin tone.  I can only imagine what I 'd have to deal with in the future, according to you.

Maybe Bioware games just aren't for you. It happens, they can't make everyone happy.

[Stanley Woo]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...
You can make all armor recognizable, associative, and representative. It's just a question of good design.

Hey guys, CHITIN ARMOR!

Who thought Morrowind?

Nope, Dark Sun's armour made from the hide of giant insects.

Yo guys, FULL DAEDRIC SET!
Who thought "Yeah, Divayth Fyr was a badass"?
See?

Nope, speaking gibberish.

[tmp7704]

ipgd wrote...

Seriously I could post just pictures of Snake's ass here and eveyone would understand.

Isn't that because MGS is the only series not afraid to openly tap into the mullet and Top Gun fanbases, though?

(i mean, it's easy to be 'recognizable' when you have no competition)

Modifié par tmp7704, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:16 .

[mesmerizedish]

Filament wrote...

Filament wrote...

I would note that there was a Batman variant (or maybe it was fanart) where he was wearing armor plating, but it was still instantly recognizable as Batman. Ironman has variants of his armor that are much more ornate/heavy. Samus has multiple different suits. Final bosses in video games tend to go through multiple stages of grotesqueness while preserving an element of the antagonist's "identity" that makes them recognizable.

My point is that by Stanley Woo's post, I feel a bit concerned that they're so scared of losing that "iconic" look that they barely even want to consider recolors (because Superman and Green Lantern just wouldn't be themselves recolored, though Spiderman manages), much less more significant variations. This would be a far too limiting interpretation of what is needed to make a character "iconic."

I was hoping a dev might offer some clarification on this. Not to sound pushy.

David Gaider wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
Is it possible to give an unique look to each armor class for each character?

That is indeed on the table as a possibility, among other things. There are numerous permutations to a system that still gives us the look we're going for but offers more flexibility-- without simply going back to generic armor across the board.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:15 .

[David Gaider]

Addai67 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

I just wish Bioware would shift their focus back to empowering players with choice instead of trying to enforce their own. 

Yep.  And focusing on deeper characterization in dialogue rather than by "enforcing" static visuals.

And I believe we've already stated that we're doing that-- on our terms, of course, but when would it be otherwise? What I'm hearing is that unless you have this choice, you don't have anything. Which is where, I think, my participation in this particular discussion ends, as it's clearly just going to go in circles. I suggest those interested check out Mike Laidlaw's thread on armor customization possibilities and offer feedback based on that-- and if the answer is "nope, don't like it one bit" then fair enough. Valid answer. But so is ours.

[Harid]

leonia42 wrote...

Harid wrote...

What I am saying is the very definition of dealing with it, by Bioware's own lips.

Unless to you, dealing with it is continuing to support a company that could not care less about my money?

Right now I have to deal with gear that doesn't even reflect my characters skin tone.  I can only imagine what I 'd have to deal with in the future, according to you.

Maybe Bioware games just aren't for you. It happens, they can't make everyone happy.

Thanks for the realization?

I'm going to keep complaining until I am banned or Dragon Age 3 comes out and confirms my fears, but sorry I no longer have your opinion to post here.

Modifié par Harid, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:17 .

[Leonia]

bEVEsthda wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

So.. if the devs took your ability to control your party members in combat away (like Mass Effect) maybe you'd realise that these AREN'T really party-based games, the only character that belongs to you (and that's rather loose given some pre-defined factors) is the Playable Character.

Your party members? They're NPCs: NON-playable characters. It's like.. playing Republic Commando.. you can issue commands in combat but they're not your personal units to fully customise as you see fit.

This is not news to us who prefer it differently.
The thing is that what we always wanted with DA was the party crpg, BG-style, and, indeed, DA:O-style. And that was also what was promised a decade ago when DA was first announced.
This is still the control scheme we want.
Your Republic Commando be damned. So you see - things are far easier than you make it.

What you want and what the devs want don't seem to coincide, that seems more problematic for you than for them. They are free to do as they wish with their games, regardless of whatever "promises" you think they made you in the past. Games evolve, genres evolve, stories and features.. evolve. You cannot expect Bioware to keep making BG over and over again in new settings because you, as a gamer, prefer the same old, same old. Either you adapt to the changes and become somewhat happy because, at the end of the day, what your party members look like is a very minor detail of the game, or you move on to something that better suits your tastes.

[Icinix]

I like the direction they took with the individual style of characters., don't get me wrong, I'd love a little more ability to set characters up with something that changes their appearance a tad more - such as slightly heavier elements to the outfit if I want them to tank, slightly less bulky if their a rogue etc - but its certainly not a big issue.

I just wish they'd take it even further - and create more unique looking characters in the people around the game who are just their for aesthetics, and also more interaction with the immediate squad and their environment outside of cutscenes. You know varic is going to be wearing the same thing all game, create a couple of good animations of him interacting with things in his house / hotel room / place of residence - so he's not just standing around when you go and find him. I know its not going to change the game - but its something that I think adds atmosphere, aesthetics and helps suck players into the world.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

FieryDove wrote...

That is where persuade comes in handy.

"Morrigan dear, you are all about power AND survival. You are an AW now...this armor will protect you and make you look badarse!"

Morrigan: "Ok you convinced me."

Yeah, something like that could be done. Everything is better when it makes some kind of sense in respect of character you play an NPC you interact. Better than inconsistency Sylvius is so Mad about that is. Either make characters uncontrollable completely and see them be real people, wearing favorite armor, switching to home clothes outside combats and buying winter cloaks if we are for some mountain adventure (with banter!), or stay oldschool.

Nope, Dark Sun's armour made from the hide of giant insects.

Meyh, Dark Sun on PC had resolution like what? 240 on 100 that days? We are talking about visuals here.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:19 .

[Harid]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

That is where persuade comes in handy.

"Morrigan dear, you are all about power AND survival. You are an AW now...this armor will protect you and make you look badarse!"

Morrigan: "Ok you convinced me."

Yeah, something like that could be done. Everything is better when it makes some kind of sense in respect of character you play an NPC you interact. Better than inconsistency Sylvius is so Mad about that is. Either make characters uncontrollable completely and see them be real people, wearing favorite armor, switching to home clothes outside combats and buying winter cloaks if we are for some mountain adventure (with banter!), or stay oldschool.

Pretty much this,  It's a copout.

I think I would honestly respect them more if they came out and said it's easier not to deal with trying to make armor fit everyone directly, so they aren't going to bother.  Then at least I could laugh at them, like when SE said making HD towns is too hard.   I'd know from now to move the **** on.

Modifié par Harid, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:20 .