16 réponses à ce sujet

[HotspurJr]

 I find myself getting rather frustrated. 

I'm a level 9 rogue. 

So I went to the mages circle, and was doing rather well, and then I ended up in the Fade.

This seems like a particularly challenging quest for a rogue. There are simply few options but repeatedly fighting groups of 2-3 powerful enemies. I've used up all my healing poultrices, but when I find the Spirit Templar, for example, there are just too many enemies for me to handle, and I don't have a lot of fancy toys anymore. It's extremely frustrating - I'm not even close to winning this battle. 

It seems like any other class would have an advantage here. A mage could use spells to hold back enemies and take them on one at a time, or use area-of-affect spells to deal with groups. A fighter would at least be in his element surrounded by a bunch of baddies. A rogue wants to be slipping around, backstabbing, etc - but that's hard to do when surrounded by two or three enemies. 

Any advice about how to get through this? Walkthrus, etc just tell you to kill the bad guys in front of you - but I keep getting clobbered. If I can get my team back I'll be fine, but ... how do I save the spirit templar without help?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

When I was a rogue for this quest (lowish level like you), I remember doing a lot of hit and run. IIRC you can get into the templar's room two ways and circle around, so I'd draw some monsters out, get far enough away to go Rat and sneak back in, draw more out in a different direction and handle them in small, bite sized chunks. Took a little longer, but you just need some smart thinking to win this fight

In many ways, more interesting than the high-end rogue insta-kills.

[caradoc2000]

Utilize the fade shapeshifting abilities.

[gingergen]

What caradoc2000 said - my rogue spent a lot of time in the Burning Man and Golem forms. Fireball, shift forms, earthquake, slam. Repeat.

[theskymoves]

My rogues find Stealth + setting traps + pulling + running through the SS forms to be really helpful in the Fade.

[gandanlin]

Try relying more on the various forms that the Fade dreamers will give you more than the rogue talents, particularly since the rogue talents are not working well for you at this point. Where one form, say the golem, does not work against a certain enemy, try one of the other forms, say the burning man.

I usually go around the Fade in a clockwise fashion, backtracking when necessary. Just a personal perference, but it seems to work better for me that way.

The Fade is a section of the game that is worth taking the time to do thoroughly, since there are some valuable attribute points that can be picked up along the way.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Which is...all cool advice if he has multiple forms. He might not, at this point.

[MyNameIsPower]

I'm a rogue too and I've spent 3 nights in this god-forsaken place.  Last night, I just couldn't take it anymore.  I just want to get the H out of here!  The scenery is ugly and uninteresting, and there is no loot.  The first time I was here with Morrigan, it was fine.  It was short and to the point.  This is different.

I've been going from place to place, not knowing where I was going, stumbling around hoping to find a way out of here, but it seems to go on forever.  There is no light at the end of the tunnel.  I have killed the first boss, Yavena.  I tried to use Crushing Prison on her, but was interrupted by her minions, so that didn't work.  I finally beat her, but I believe I have many, many battles yet to go.

In my opinion, the Fade quest / mini-novel is way too long.  I didn't want to come to this place.  I didn't want to go around alone. I didn't want to run out of the few health potions I had.  I do not like walking around knowing I could die at any second and I have to win every fight without some way to re-coup health.  I do not like being given powers I don't know much about, and then being forced to use those powers against multiple enemies, without being able to test them first.  Besides, I do not want to be a shapeshifter, I want to be a backstabbing rogue.  That is what I've worked toward.

But, the game is making me do all this, and it is not enjoyable.

[Klidi]

Hm, yes, Fade is bit long and boring, but as the other said, it's not that difficult if you use shapes from dreamers. For example, to beat Yavena, you had to have Spirit form, no? And that has freezing spell. That helps a lot with most of demons.

When I play rogue, I always choose dual weapons (I hate bows and never use them in any game, if possible) and specialization Duelist, with points in cunning/dexterity. Riposte can stun enemies, so it's quite useful.

Combine that with spells and attacks from the shapes, traps, and stealth if you have it, and find all the extra stat points in hidden rooms, and it really shouldn't be that big trouble.

[AbsoluteApril]

MyNameIsPower wrote...
 there is no loot. 

but there's all those +1 attributes, isn't that better than loot?


I enjoyed the fade, thought it was a nice change of pace, the forms were different and unexpected. My rogue did a lot of backtracking through rooms to space enemies out, bombs and traps as well as 50%+ of the time spent as burning man or golem (especially when health got low).
Good luck!

[MyNameIsPower]

Klidi wrote...

For example, to beat Yavena, you had to have Spirit form, no? And that has freezing spell. That helps a lot with most of demons.

Yes, I have the Spirit form and found out the healing spell is pathetic.

My main complaint with the Fade is that I did not see this coming.  This is my first play-through.  I did not stock up on health potions before hand.  I don't like dying.  I consider it a failure.  I don't like running around under constant threat of death with no way to heal myself.  I don't like that kind of pressure.  Yes, I know there are lyrium veins scattered around, but they are sparse.

Last night, I opened a door and there were 2 Arcane Horrors in there.  They paralyzed me and lightning bolted me to death before I could move a muscle.  I felt like I was back in the 90s playing Ultima Online.

Yes, after you play through this once, or hit up some walk throughs before hand, you know what you're up against, but to put a first time player into this predicament was not the best design decision.  It is not fun.

[MyNameIsPower]

AbsoluteApril wrote...

MyNameIsPower wrote...
 there is no loot. 

but there's all those +1 attributes, isn't that better than loot?

I don't know.  I have not gotten to try out my new attributes in a normal environment, with my sanity intact.  Perhaps in a few days, I will finally get out of here, and be able to enjoy the +1s.

[AbsoluteApril]

Would hate to see you give up on it during your first PT but I understand it can be frustrating. Do you have a save in the circle before encountering the sloth demon? Then you could run back to the start to buy up more health. Or there's always the tried and true - knock the difficulty down a level or two, at least until you're out of it. good luck!

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 29 septembre 2011 - 10:04 .

[Addai]

Rogues are a little light during the early game. You will definitely catch up- dex beats con for survivability. But, as for your immediate problem, usually in the Fade I go to the Burning Tower first and pick up the burning man form. I find this the most useful form in the Fade, both for Fireball (a powerful, quick area-of-effect destructo spell) and for getting around through fire blocks, also because it has Haste so it's a faster running speed through all those corridors. Also you'll be impervious to mage fireballs, a big help in Mages Asunder.

As someone already said, try to draw off one or two enemies at a time, run back and deal with those before moving on. Try to maneuver enemies in tight corridors where they can't mob you. If all else fails, run. It can buy you a little time.  Mouse form gives you some stealth capability.  It can help in a pinch.

The attributes are definitely better than loot. Keep checking your map to make sure you haven't missed areas where they're hiding. Of course you will need all the Fade forms to get through all doors, so once you have all the forms (mouse, burning man, golem, and spirit), go back to the areas where you already were to get to the doors you missed previously, including the area you started in and the one where you met Niall. Some of the attributes can only be accessed in spirit form.

Modifié par Addai67, 30 septembre 2011 - 12:24 .

[Joy Divison]

MyNameIsPower wrote...

I've been going from place to place, not knowing where I was going, stumbling around hoping to find a way out of here, but it seems to go on forever.  There is no light at the end of the tunnel...

That's the point of the Fade.

On the DAWiki site there is an excellent guide of how to get through the fade quickly and efficently.

There is also a mod called "Skip the Fade"

The forms they give you to shapeshift in are not there for cosmetic or story reasons.  Without much knowledge of the game and an optimized chararacter, completing the Fade is very difficult without shapeshifting.  The Golem form's rock throw is single handily the most powerful ability you'll get in the game.

[MyNameIsPower]

Thank you for your sympathies and advices.  I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me.

Last night, I decided to relax and try again.  I studied the 4 different forms more, including their stats and the amount of health you get.  I tested the different spells to a greater extent.  It was a lot easier once I realized you're supposed to use these forms to a large degree, not your human form.  That was my mistake 2 days ago.  I was using the alternate forms as a last resort.  That was wrong.  By that time, I was nearly dead.

Yes, you're right.  Last night, I went back to the room with the 2 Arcane Horrors.  I stood off to the side and opened the door.  Before they saw me, I crushing-prisoned one, then Winter's Grasped him, which finished him.  Before the other could reach me, I fireballed him, incinerating him.  That's how the rest of the evening went, and I never came close to dying.

So, thanks again.  It's more enjoyable now that I am comfortable with these new abilities.

[MyNameIsPower]

One more thing about the Fade ... the first night wandering through it, I used the mouse form and managed to enter the first Spirit Door across from Naill.  I didn't really know how to fight the Wisps, and I used more health potions than I wanted getting out of there alive.  I didn't understand then, but I know now I should not have been able to do that.  You need Spirit form to go through those doors.  So, you can imagine my confusion when I could not do it again.

Anyway, won't be a problem anymore.