284 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Really, though, it wasn't even a decision for the player, since there are no real choices involved. It's a decision in the sense that, say, Shepard dying for Joker was a decision.

[JamieCOTC]

Klijpope wrote...

While I am fairly phlegmatic about the Arrival war crime being part of the pre-canon for ME3, it's still somewhat hamfisted. I mean, this was Shep's most significant decision ever, way more important than saving the Council or not, even if there was no real choice, but it was tacked on as DLC.

Feels like they thought of a better ending after it had shipped - really something of this magnitude should have been the main game.

It's a great starting point for ME3, a trial. However, I do not think it was necessary to shoehorn this warcrime in to make it happen. Shepard could already be put on trial for working with a known terrorist organisation, or even on trumped up charges, given the murkiness of her/his death and resurrection.

Blowing up a mass relay would have been a better ending than fighting a reapinator for ME2, though.

All of this!!!

[mulder1199]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

mulder1199 wrote...

not to support bickering or what not, but i would think that if your shep didn't do arrival (though all of mine have) there could just be some alternate lines at the trial...perhaps for cooperating with a 'known terrorist organization' instead of the events of arrival....best of both worlds perhaps...

I thought Casey Hudson said that if you DID NOT play Arrival then the trial would be handled differently. 

i don't remember seeing that, but if thats the way they went, great, problem solved....

[Ace of Dawn]

Meh, it wasn't Shepard's plan, it was Project Team's plan. He was thrown into a situation where he had little control (shocking how life does that). He didn't kill 300,000 Batarians. He prevented a Reaper invasion.

In the end, this all got hung around Shepard's neck because he was doing what he felt was right. If you are a Paragon Shep, you wanted to warn them, you just couldn't

I'm fine with Arrival because it's plausible in that degree. You can't win every outcome, you can save every day, and sometimes, good guys end up being involved in some pretty shady things.

mulder1199 wrote...

Confused-Shepard wrote...

mulder1199 wrote...

not
to support bickering or what not, but i would think that if your shep
didn't do arrival (though all of mine have) there could just be some
alternate lines at the trial...perhaps for cooperating with a 'known
terrorist organization' instead of the events of arrival....best of both
worlds perhaps...

I thought Casey Hudson said that if you DID NOT play Arrival then the trial would be handled differently. 

i don't remember seeing that, but if thats the way they went, great, problem solved....

From what I remember, it's more that the conversations would take into account that you didn't play Arrival, not that it didn't happen. Like it or not, Arrival happened. Shepard, to the galaxy, killed 300,000 Batarians and will be put on trial for it.

Modifié par Ace of Dawn, 08 septembre 2011 - 08:36 .

[matt-bassist]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

In 2186 CE a bad ass soldier was sent to earth by a
military court for a charge he did not commit. This man promptly
escaped from a maximum-security stockade to the Los Angeles underground.
Today, still wanted by the Alliance and Batarians, he survives the soldiers of
fortune. If you have a problem...if no one else can help...and if you
can find him...maybe you can hire...The SHEPARD TEAM

*cue that music*

---------------

Ok im sure my Shepard will not try to escape from being charged, but you get the point im trying to say.  My shepard is being charged for something he never did.

Perhaps a shepard from another reality did it, or maybe someone impersonated my shepard did it, but im SURE my Shepard didn't do the act.

I don't like the idea of optional DLC being forced upon my canon walkthrough, even though i didn't buy it.

At least with the other DLC, there events are not forced upon me, and are therefore not canon (i.e if i don't buy LOTSB, in my canon, my shepard never helped Liara take down the shadow broker).

What do you people think about what im trying to say? 

Should there be a different option at the beginning of ME3 for those who didn't buy arrival?  Perhaps in the canon of those who didn't have their shepard play Arrival, someone else played a role in "Arrival" and caused the death of 300,000 batarians, but not you (im sure if bioware tried hard enough they could create a story that stoped the Reapers from arriving in "Arrival" but without Shepard).

What do you think?



Compare to what im trying to say here to this:

Bioware decides to make a new love interst for Shepard off screen, who Shepard fell in love with and ditches
his/her previous ME2 love interest.  So when ME3 comes around, your Shepard has a new love, which all happened off screen, and which you had no choice over.

So if that is not acceptable to ME fans, why is killing 300,000 civilians off screen, without a choice (if you didn't play arrrival) OK then?

DUDE, i cant believe im the first person telling you this!
MASS EFFECT 3 ASSUMES YOU PLAYED ARRIVAL, LOTSB AND OVERLORD!!
It happened. Many people have experienced it, just because you're too cheap to pay...

[Gabey5]

it happened off screen

Shepard was born did you see that?

Shepard joined the alliance did you see that?

Shepard existed before eden prime did you see that?

The gap between me 1 and 2 did you see that?

in other words

deal with it

Modifié par Gabey5, 08 septembre 2011 - 08:45 .

[100k]

Plus something like 10,000 ships at the Citadel. And I'm guessing between 3000-5000 mercs in his career.

[Ace of Dawn]

100k wrote...

Plus something like 10,000 ships at the Citadel. And I'm guessing between 3000-5000 mercs in his career.

Honestly speaking, one of these days I plan on playing the games and counting just how many deaths Shepard is responsible for. I don't expect a large number... but his killcount is probably magnitudes higher than that of most other Alliance Marines.

This would of course take into account Arrival and the battle at the Citadel, but include any kills your teammates get in your service.

Maybe that's why the Reapers fear you... for such a small organism, you do their job pretty well...

[Zan Mura]

While I understand what the OP is getting at, I simply cannot agree with the implications of that kind of an attitude with regards to RPG's in general. We need LESS DLC's that don't matter, and MORE that actually do. Providing the gamerbase with DLC's where they have a chance to partake in events that are canon in the game world, seems a pretty darned feasible idea to me. Ultimately such DLC is about the same as any canon events the devs decided happened between games. You don't have to personally be there and experience it, what happened still happened. And you have to deal with any way the game allows you to. Otherwise you might as well say "my Shepard never joined any kind of Alliance, he trained as a cook and a janitor", because you couldn't personally play Shep's childhood.

[Someone With Mass]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

100k wrote...

Plus something like 10,000 ships at the Citadel. And I'm guessing between 3000-5000 mercs in his career.

Honestly speaking, one of these days I plan on playing the games and counting just how many deaths Shepard is responsible for. I don't expect a large number... but his killcount is probably magnitudes higher than that of most other Alliance Marines.

This would of course take into account Arrival and the battle at the Citadel, but include any kills your teammates get in your service.

Maybe that's why the Reapers fear you... for such a small organism, you do their job pretty well...

And let's not even get started on how many geth programs Shepard killed.

It's probably up in the billions by now. 

[Zan Mura]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

100k wrote...

Plus something like 10,000 ships at the Citadel. And I'm guessing between 3000-5000 mercs in his career.

Honestly speaking, one of these days I plan on playing the games and counting just how many deaths Shepard is responsible for. I don't expect a large number... but his killcount is probably magnitudes higher than that of most other Alliance Marines.

This would of course take into account Arrival and the battle at the Citadel, but include any kills your teammates get in your service.

Maybe that's why the Reapers fear you... for such a small organism, you do their job pretty well...

This isn't spoiling: There's a fight in Arrival where you basically just play solo survivor against waves of enemies. At some points along the fight, their dialogues imply a serious blow to their morale since they can't do jack crap against Shep. Personally I found that kinda funny. Since while pressing a few buttons here and there is easy, you get a whole other kind of respect for a man or a woman when some 30 special forces -level combat experts are sent against them with nades, missiles, flamethrowers, a mech etc, and the bastard just kills all of them. Even the defensive positions are about as crappy as they get.

Shepard is beyond a doubt a combat expert of such legendary skill, ability and experience that he / she defies reason even within ME universe itself.

[Ace of Dawn]

Zan Mura wrote...

While I understand what the OP is getting at, I simply cannot agree with the implications of that kind of an attitude with regards to RPG's in general. We need LESS DLC's that don't matter, and MORE that actually do. Providing the gamerbase with DLC's where they have a chance to partake in events that are canon in the game world, seems a pretty darned feasible idea to me. Ultimately such DLC is about the same as any canon events the devs decided happened between games. You don't have to personally be there and experience it, what happened still happened. And you have to deal with any way the game allows you to. Otherwise you might as well say "my Shepard never joined any kind of Alliance, he trained as a cook and a janitor", because you couldn't personally play Shep's childhood.

This ultimately stems from a fact of the Mass Effect universe most people can't accept.

Shepard is his own person, not a blank slate. He has ideals, pasts, beliefs, etc.

We're essentially his subconscious, not him.

[JamieCOTC]

mulder1199 wrote...

Confused-Shepard wrote...

mulder1199 wrote...

not to support bickering or what not, but i would think that if your shep didn't do arrival (though all of mine have) there could just be some alternate lines at the trial...perhaps for cooperating with a 'known terrorist organization' instead of the events of arrival....best of both worlds perhaps...

I thought Casey Hudson said that if you DID NOT play Arrival then the trial would be handled differently. 

i don't remember seeing that, but if thats the way they went, great, problem solved....

Shepard pretty much had to stop the Reapers in the Arrival DLC event, but we handle it differently in ME3 if you didn't play it.

https://twitter.com/...245265819680769

[Moonshadow_Dark]

koopaonfire wrote...

I don't understand why Shepard is being blamed for the events of Arrival. When s/he contacted the Bahak batarians, I don't think they'd take a shoddy-at-best incomplete message as terribly conspicuous then run off and tell the Hegemony. The entire system was wiped out, so in my eyes, only Hackett and the crew of the SR2 know that Shepard actually did that.

Plus, since when did the Council or Alliance care about batarians? Don't get me wrong; I think it's awful that a lot of you think batarians are inherently evil and need to be purged. Yet, there seems to be no real reasoning for why the Council or Alliance would care even if the batarians had evidence that "some human" blew up the Bahak system.

As far as I'm concerned, the Hegemony has no evidence to blame Shepard. If Hackett and others think differently, I don't know what they're smoking.

The evidence is his track record.

Virmire: Blown up.

Space Prison: Blown up.

Collector Ship: Blown up.

The Ascension OR several human ships: Blown up.

Face it, if Shepard in in your galaxy, hop the next shuttle to the relay cuz that place is about to light up bigger than a Texas 4th of July celebration.

But if you have a problem with that, you can always go to the trial and plead the fifth.




________________________________

Judge: Shepard, did you blow up a Relay and killl over 300,00 Batarians?

Shepard: I plead the Fifth. *winks*

Judge Can you tell us what you were doing in that sector of the system?

Shepard: No but I can tell you I plead da fizz-if.

Judge: What about these eyewitness repor-

Shepard: *sings* There, aaaaaaaaah, I said there are so many amendments....in the Constitution of the United States of Americaaaaaaaa! I can only choose one! *dips finger in the water glasses and slides it around the brim, making a noise* I can only choose oooooooone! I PLEAD THE FIF! *slaps hand on the table twice* I PLEAD THE FIF! *slaps the table again* FIVE! ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIIIIIIF! ANYTHING YOU SAY: FIIIIIF! Go ahead, ask me a question.

Judge: Did yo-

Shepard: FIIIIIIIF! Sir, I have a secret document you need to see. *holds up a paper that says "Fif"*

Modifié par Moonshadow_Dark, 08 septembre 2011 - 09:23 .

[Metalunatic]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...



What do you people think about what im trying to say? 

What do I think? I think you should buy the DLC's as they are canon or suck it up.

[Ace of Dawn]

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...

The evidence is his track record.

Virmire: Blown up.

Space Prison: Blown up.

Collector Ship: Blown up.

The Ascension OR several human ships: Blown up.

Face it, if Shepard in in your galaxy, hop the next shuttle to the relay cuz that place is about to light up bigger than a Texas 4th of July celebration.

Which is even addressed several times in game by several people. Everywhere we go, people die. Enter Omega, People die. Go to Virmire and people die. Nod at the bird, people die.

Really, Shepard just happens to have some... explosive tendencies.

[rolson00]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

In 2186 CE a bad ass soldier was sent to earth by a
military court for a charge he did not commit. This man promptly
escaped from a maximum-security stockade to the Los Angeles underground.
Today, still wanted by the Alliance and Batarians, he survives the soldiers of
fortune. If you have a problem...if no one else can help...and if you
can find him...maybe you can hire...The SHEPARD TEAM

*cue that music*

---------------

Ok im sure my Shepard will not try to escape from being charged, but you get the point im trying to say.  My shepard is being charged for something he never did.

Perhaps a shepard from another reality did it, or maybe someone impersonated my shepard did it, but im SURE my Shepard didn't do the act.

I don't like the idea of optional DLC being forced upon my canon walkthrough, even though i didn't buy it.

At least with the other DLC, there events are not forced upon me, and are therefore not canon (i.e if i don't buy LOTSB, in my canon, my shepard never helped Liara take down the shadow broker).

What do you people think about what im trying to say? 

Should there be a different option at the beginning of ME3 for those who didn't buy arrival?  Perhaps in the canon of those who didn't have their shepard play Arrival, someone else played a role in "Arrival" and caused the death of 300,000 batarians, but not you (im sure if bioware tried hard enough they could create a story that stoped the Reapers from arriving in "Arrival" but without Shepard).

What do you think?



Compare to what im trying to say here to this:

Bioware decides to make a new love interst for Shepard off screen, who Shepard fell in love with and ditches
his/her previous ME2 love interest.  So when ME3 comes around, your Shepard has a new love, which all happened off screen, and which you had no choice over.

So if that is not acceptable to ME fans, why is killing 300,000 civilians off screen, without a choice (if you didn't play arrrival) OK then?

its part of the story shepard killed 300'000 even if you didnt get the dlc shepard still did this

[pfhorlorn]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Does everyone forget that the Batarians had three days, plus half-hour before the destruction of the Relay, to communicate with the rest of the galaxy? For all those spy sattelites to visually track the asteroid, see the Normandy, and send images out before their destruction? Or do people think that no one could possibly leave or talk to anyone outside of the system in a universe in which FTL communication is a fact of life?

Fair enough. I haven't played Arrival in quite some time. I apologize for any hasty remarks I may have dropped in this thread. I concede that my arguments were flawed.

Modifié par koopaonfire, 08 septembre 2011 - 09:31 .

[Robbiesan]

Future Guy wrote...

I contracted some sort of space herpes. I don't recall how I got that.

were you feeding Space Hamster the wrong stuff? 

[MCH1202]

Second-degree murder? Three hundred thousand people? I would have remembered!

[Badpie]

Zakatak757 wrote...

Getting a feral Varren pregnant? I don't remember that...

I do.  It was a side mission involving a lab, a turkey baster and A LOT of body armor.

[Moonshadow_Dark]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...

The evidence is his track record.

Virmire: Blown up.

Space Prison: Blown up.

Collector Ship: Blown up.

The Ascension OR several human ships: Blown up.

Face it, if Shepard in in your galaxy, hop the next shuttle to the relay cuz that place is about to light up bigger than a Texas 4th of July celebration.

Which is even addressed several times in game by several people. Everywhere we go, people die. Enter Omega, People die. Go to Virmire and people die. Nod at the bird, people die.

Really, Shepard just happens to have some... explosive tendencies.

Imagine how that trial's gonna go.

__________________

Judge: Do you have any evidence that it was Shepard who detonated the relay?

Prosecutor: Everywhere he goes, something blows up.

Shepard: That's not true!

Prosecutor: Oh yeah? Virmire. Prison. Asteroid. Mining platform. As well as hundreds of other places. For god's sake, the jury wouldn't agree to show unless they were behind a blast shield! *points to the jury behind a metal dome*

Shepard: Ladies and gentlemen of the court, I can assure you, nothing bad is going to happen. Those were all coincedences. Nothing will explode he-

*Court explodes as the Reapers invade*


*Garrus and Shepard poke their heads out of the rubble*

Garrus: I gotta say, Shepard.....that was just bad timing.

Modifié par Moonshadow_Dark, 08 septembre 2011 - 09:37 .

[Ace of Dawn]

MCH1202 wrote...

Second-degree murder? Three hundred thousand people? I would have remembered!

For you, the day Shepard graced your system was the most important day of your life. But for me... it was Tuesday.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

God! just play the game when it comes out and stop whining about dlc you couldn't be arsed to buy

[Badpie]

Ace of Dawn wrote...


For you, the day Shepard graced your system was the most important day of your life. But for me... it was Tuesday.

I truly kind of love you for this.