He does have a point, folks. It is lame that something that important happens off screen. It should have been in the game proper. At the least ME3 should have a scene like at the beginning of ME2, where you see it happening.
I killed 300,000 Batarians? I don't remember that.......
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AnAccountWithNoName
, sept. 08 2011 05:23
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#152
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 09:59
Dean_the_Young
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It doesn't happen 'offscreen.' It happens if you buy the content, just like ME1 and ME2 both depend on paying for content to understand ME3.Taritu wrote...
He does have a point, folks. It is lame that something that important happens off screen. It should have been in the game proper. At the least ME3 should have a scene like at the beginning of ME2, where you see it happening.
#153
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 09:59
Moonshadow_Dark
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MCH1202 wrote...
Second-degree murder? Three hundred thousand people? I would have remembered!
Maybe the ending of ME3 will do like The Hangover and have Miranda show up with a camera and the end credits will be a slide show of Arrival to the "You Spin My Head Right Round" by Flo Rida.
Modifié par Moonshadow_Dark, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:00 .
#154
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:05
Taritu
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Dean_the_Young wrote...
It doesn't happen 'offscreen.' It happens if you buy the content, just like ME1 and ME2 both depend on paying for content to understand ME3.Taritu wrote...
He does have a point, folks. It is lame that something that important happens off screen. It should have been in the game proper. At the least ME3 should have a scene like at the beginning of ME2, where you see it happening.
Most people who bought the game do not buy DLC. The majority of players will not have seen this. I know this is hard for fanboys to understand, but it is the case. They're going to be awfully surprised to see that their Shepard committed genocide. They may think that's something they should have had some input into.
It's great that you think it's ok, but I guarantee that a ton of people are going to be upset. Is it the end of the world? Of course not. But it is a dubious decision on Bioware's part. They are not gods, whatever fanboys think, they do make mistakes (see Dragon Age, II).
#155
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:05
RocketManSR2
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Taritu wrote...
He does have a point, folks. It is lame that something that important happens off screen. It should have been in the game proper. At the least ME3 should have a scene like at the beginning of ME2, where you see it happening.
This is what happens when you don't read the entire topic. There are so many things in the ME universe that happen "off screen" it's not even funny.
#156
Guest_Future Guy_*
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:08
Guest_Future Guy_*
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You would have a stronger case if you had a choice, and the decision was actually made by the player. The Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC is the same way. It involves Shepard who kills the Shadow Broker. Utimately, the Batarians and the SB die regardless, and Liara becomes the SB, regardless.The Giant Napkin wrote...
This. The books/comics analogy doesn't work, because it's not Shepard at work there. The geth-hunting sequence between ME1 and ME2 is not comparable either, because you also don't roleplay Shep going to the toilet etc., they necessarily have to leave out some of the boring stuff. Lastly, the same goes for what happened before ME1: the story is about Shepard's fight against the reapers, and it would not have been necessary to add Shepard's youth: it's (mostly) irrelevant to the story, and would seem like filler material if it had been in the game.
I don't care so much that the choice to kill the batarians is forced on you, and I get this is a necessary plot device to get Shepard to earth. What makes me simply angry at BioWare is that this is canon, relevant, and pretty much necessary to have played as Shepard in order to make sense, but that this is all in the form of DLC - which isn't even free. Which means that to play the complete game, you HAVE to pay extra money for DLC. I think Arrival should have been a part of either ME2 or ME3, or, in the worst case, have been FREE DLC. This is part of Mass Effect, cut out to make extra money through DLC.
(And no, I don't mean to start a discussion about DLC: though, like anyone, I prefer free DLC, I'm fine with the Overlord DLC etc. The point is, Arrival is a necessary part of the plot of the ME games, but for the OP and anyone who DID pay for the game, it's not included. It's not like BioWare would go bankrupt if they made Arrival free, but for some reason they decided it was reasonable to charge for it. I disagree.)
At the end of ME1, you decide how to defeat Sovereign and the Geth, and either the Council live or die. This carries over into ME2, and you can talk to the Council if they survived. You're treated a little differently by others on the Citadel, and some of the radio broadcasts are different. Not much to it if you ask me, but there it is.
For examples in ME2, you either destroy or re-write the Geth, and at the end , you either blow up or save the Collector Base. It leaves the possibility of different outcomes for your decisions in ME3. I don't think ramifications in ME3 will matter much depending on the decisions you made here, but again, there it is.
You say you're fine with the Overlord DLC, yet it does have a decision made by the player at the end of it. The possibility exists that there may be a difference in ME3, although granted, it'll probably just be an email.
You won't catch me defending Bioware/EA's DLC scheme, but as you alluded to, that's for a different discussion.
With that said, Arrival is not as you said, "pretty much neccesary to have played as Shepard in order to make sense", because you as a role player make no decisions. You watch a movie of the events unfold, and you're able to interact with those events, but you cannot change their outcome. By not playing Arrival, you miss out on a shooting gallery, is all.
Modifié par Future Guy, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:10 .
#157
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:09
Annihilator27
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AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
lazuli wrote...
I survived the Thresher Maw attack on Akuze? I don't remember that.
or
I repelled a batarian assault on Elysium? I don't remember that.
or
I sent 75% of my troops to certain death on Torfan? I don't remember that.
Actually my character does remember that. Because i chose certain things for my Shepard's backstory.
When i say "I don't remember that", i don't mean from my perspective, but from the in-universe perspective of my shepard.
Oh dont worry, Im sure youll get to tell your side of the story in court........About why you killed them Batarians!!!
Modifié par annihilator27, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:09 .
#158
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:11
Dean_the_Young
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They may also realize that playing well advertised story content is generally a precondition for understanding a story. I wonder which one of us has a higher level of faith in the general population?Taritu wrote...
Most people who bought the game do not buy DLC. The majority of players will not have seen this. I know this is hard for fanboys to understand, but it is the case. They're going to be awfully surprised to see that their Shepard committed genocide. They may think that's something they should have had some input into.
If they're upset because it takes them by surprise, then not to mince too many words but they're living under pretty big rocks. Bioware has always admitted their intent to make bridging DLC for ME2. What does bridging DLC do? It bridges.It's great that you think it's ok, but I guarantee that a ton of people are going to be upset. Is it the end of the world? Of course not. But it is a dubious decision on Bioware's part. They are not gods, whatever fanboys think, they do make mistakes (see Dragon Age, II).
#159
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:13
RocketManSR2
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Taritu wrote...
Most people who bought the game do not buy DLC. The majority of players will not have seen this. I know this is hard for fanboys to understand, but it is the case. They're going to be awfully surprised to see that their Shepard committed genocide. They may think that's something they should have had some input into.
Do you have a link to back up those claims of yours, or did you just feel like spouting nonsense? I'm fairly certain the majority will have seen the events of Arrival because they aren't cheap bastards and actually purchased the DLC because they wanted to play more ME2. Yea, it's shocking, I know.
Modifié par RocketManSR2, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:15 .
#160
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:13
Moonshadow_Dark
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Taritu wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
It doesn't happen 'offscreen.' It happens if you buy the content, just like ME1 and ME2 both depend on paying for content to understand ME3.Taritu wrote...
He does have a point, folks. It is lame that something that important happens off screen. It should have been in the game proper. At the least ME3 should have a scene like at the beginning of ME2, where you see it happening.
Most people who bought the game do not buy DLC. The majority of players will not have seen this. I know this is hard for fanboys to understand, but it is the case. They're going to be awfully surprised to see that their Shepard committed genocide. They may think that's something they should have had some input into.
It's great that you think it's ok, but I guarantee that a ton of people are going to be upset. Is it the end of the world? Of course not. But it is a dubious decision on Bioware's part. They are not gods, whatever fanboys think, they do make mistakes (see Dragon Age, II).
And what input could they do? If you don't blow the relay, you lose. Reapers win. Game over. You CANNOT save them. They are doomed from the get go. So either way, you're screwed. You HAVE to blow the relay. There is no other choice.
I.e Deal with it.
#161
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:16
Kyria Nyriese
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The only reason this argument is coming up is because Bioware gave us the opportunity to participate in a forgone plotline of the story - ie Arrival and LotSB. If they hadn't, we most likely wouldn't be having this conversation, because Bioware would have done it anyway and you wouldn't have cared, except that Bioware gave you the option to play it.
OK this is looking more and more like a catch 22, no matter what Bioware did here, people would still complain.
OP - Look at it this way, Bioware dictated the plot included Shepard killing 300000 + Batarian, the Shadow Broker and making Liara the new Shadow Broker. They just happened to have given you the opportunity to actually participate, however, just because you did participate in the events (i.e. bought the DLC and played it) doesn't mean you get a choice. I didn't have a choice at any point in Arrival to not blow up the relay and kill 300000+ Batarians. I don't like it, however, I can look at it as kill the Batarians or let the Reapers in and let them destroy the entire galaxy.
This post is conjecture and my opinion. Read at your own risk
OK this is looking more and more like a catch 22, no matter what Bioware did here, people would still complain.
OP - Look at it this way, Bioware dictated the plot included Shepard killing 300000 + Batarian, the Shadow Broker and making Liara the new Shadow Broker. They just happened to have given you the opportunity to actually participate, however, just because you did participate in the events (i.e. bought the DLC and played it) doesn't mean you get a choice. I didn't have a choice at any point in Arrival to not blow up the relay and kill 300000+ Batarians. I don't like it, however, I can look at it as kill the Batarians or let the Reapers in and let them destroy the entire galaxy.
This post is conjecture and my opinion. Read at your own risk
#162
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:17
RocketManSR2
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Shepard did those batarians a favor along with any slaves they had. A quick death is far better than what the reapers would have done to them.
#163
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:18
Dean_the_Young
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Or they could be cheap bastards and watch the events of the DLC for free on youtube.RocketManSR2 wrote...
Taritu wrote...
Most people who bought the game do not buy DLC. The majority of players will not have seen this. I know this is hard for fanboys to understand, but it is the case. They're going to be awfully surprised to see that their Shepard committed genocide. They may think that's something they should have had some input into.
Do you have a link to back up those claims of yours, or did you just feel like spouting nonsense? I'm fairly certain the majority will have seen the events of Arrival because they aren't cheap bastards and actually purchased the DLC because they wanted to play more ME2. Yea, it's shocking, I know.
#164
Guest_Rojahar_*
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:19
Guest_Rojahar_*
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You don't "remember" (play) your origin story (Ruthless/WarHero/SoleSurvivor) either. So should that not count? The only things that count are what you actually played? Well, I guess you're not an Alliance marine either.
It's all really beside the point though. Working with Cerberus is enough for a trial - even if not enough for a conviction. Do we KNOW that everyone will be tried for genocide, and not for terrorism/conspiracy from working with Cerberus?
It's all really beside the point though. Working with Cerberus is enough for a trial - even if not enough for a conviction. Do we KNOW that everyone will be tried for genocide, and not for terrorism/conspiracy from working with Cerberus?
#165
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:20
RocketManSR2
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Kyria Nyriese wrote...
The only reason this argument is coming up is because Bioware gave us the opportunity to participate in a forgone plotline of the story - ie Arrival and LotSB. If they hadn't, we most likely wouldn't be having this conversation, because Bioware would have done it anyway and you wouldn't have cared, except that Bioware gave you the option to play it.
OK this is looking more and more like a catch 22, no matter what Bioware did here, people would still complain.
OP - Look at it this way, Bioware dictated the plot included Shepard killing 300000 + Batarian, the Shadow Broker and making Liara the new Shadow Broker. They just happened to have given you the opportunity to actually participate, however, just because you did participate in the events (i.e. bought the DLC and played it) doesn't mean you get a choice. I didn't have a choice at any point in Arrival to not blow up the relay and kill 300000+ Batarians. I don't like it, however, I can look at it as kill the Batarians or let the Reapers in and let them destroy the entire galaxy.
This post is conjecture and my opinion. Read at your own risk
Welcome to the BSN. This is the one thing I've seen a lot of since I became a regular. It's so stupid.
#166
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:20
Ace of Dawn
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Taritu wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
It doesn't happen 'offscreen.' It happens if you buy the content, just like ME1 and ME2 both depend on paying for content to understand ME3.Taritu wrote...
He does have a point, folks. It is lame that something that important happens off screen. It should have been in the game proper. At the least ME3 should have a scene like at the beginning of ME2, where you see it happening.
Most people who bought the game do not buy DLC. The majority of players will not have seen this. I know this is hard for fanboys to understand, but it is the case. They're going to be awfully surprised to see that their Shepard committed genocide. They may think that's something they should have had some input into.
It's great that you think it's ok, but I guarantee that a ton of people are going to be upset. Is it the end of the world? Of course not. But it is a dubious decision on Bioware's part. They are not gods, whatever fanboys think, they do make mistakes (see Dragon Age, II).
That's a pretty bold claim to say that most people didn't buy the DLC? How can you be sure? Are their links? Reports? Anything? For all you know, a large portion of people bought it.
#167
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:37
AnAccountWithNoName
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Metalunatic wrote...
AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
What do you people think about what im trying to say?
What do I think? I think you should buy the DLC's as they are canon or suck it up.
But i think it is to much, so no.
#168
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 10:44
Moonshadow_Dark
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AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
Metalunatic wrote...
AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
What do you people think about what im trying to say?
What do I think? I think you should buy the DLC's as they are canon or suck it up.
But i think it is to much, so no.
It's ten dollars. Take thirty minutes out of your day and mow a lawn. Bam. You now have ten dollars to buy Arrival. You probably have some left over scratch for snacks too.
#169
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 11:40
Ace of Dawn
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Badpie wrote...
Ace of Dawn wrote...
For you, the day Shepard graced your system was the most important day of your life. But for me... it was Tuesday.
I truly kind of love you for this.
You are welcome.
#170
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 11:44
Therefore_I_Am
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I'm surprised nobody complains about LotSB... Liara is showing up as the shadow broker no matter what in ME3.
Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 08 septembre 2011 - 11:44 .
#171
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 11:52
Deganis76
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AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
Future Guy wrote...
The books and comics are optional, and they're canon as well.
The books and comics did not also cause my shepard to kill 300,000 civilians.
A word of advice: You may want to PLAY the DLC before you start talking about choice. Shepard did not have a whole heck of a lot of choice in that DLC. This was not a Save the Collector Base/Destroy the Collector Base kind of situation.
And also think about the argument...I could easily say "Well I didn't play ME2" (which is a lie, I played the hell out of ME2) "so therefore the events of ME2 did not happen for my Shepard. Bioware please release a different version of the ME3 where ME2 doesn't happen." No, BW has to establish some form of canon to properly develop a game: thus events that happen in games, comics, books, & DLC are all considered canon. If you chose not to read them or play them, then that it ultimately is your decision... but you are missing out on story and content.
Modifié par Deganis76, 09 septembre 2011 - 12:00 .
#172
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 12:09
Grand Admiral Cheesecake
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Bioware: Here's some new ME DLC for you fans!
Fans: RUINED FOREVAAAAH!!!!! VARIABLES!!!! PLOT HOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bioware: Okay we'll not hold off on more DLC.
Fans: LAZY DEVELOPERS!!!!!!! PANDERING TO THE COD CROWD!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bioware:...Really?
Fans: RUINED FOREVAAAAH!!!!! VARIABLES!!!! PLOT HOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bioware: Okay we'll not hold off on more DLC.
Fans: LAZY DEVELOPERS!!!!!!! PANDERING TO THE COD CROWD!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bioware:...Really?
#173
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 12:15
Aoba
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Oh, my canon FemShep Caitlyn will sure as hell try to escape. **** the charges! There's an English-accented, sexy-as-hell Alliance Black-ops badass sniper held up in Westminster Tower who needs help. Seattle/Vancouver be damned, she's gonna make sure this lad makes it through. Priorities, man. She has 'em. ;D Obviously not the same as everyone else, but eh, what can y' do, eh? 
#174
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 12:42
BlueMagitek
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Hey, if the Batarians didn't go around colonizing worlds that rightfully belonged to humans, we wouldn't need to destroy ancient, night irreparable machinery.
...oh wait, that'd make Shep a shadow of Balak.
...oh wait, that'd make Shep a shadow of Balak.
#175
Posté 09 septembre 2011 - 12:51
Davie McG
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I get what the OP is saying.
However, even those of us who have played Arrival know that the killing of 300,000 Batarians was forced upon us. I made no decision. I was kidnapped and woke up an hour before the Reapers came to wipe out the star system, it was either crash into the relay or let the galaxy get raped by synthetic monsters.
There was no choice. The reapers invaded and we had to slow them down.
Whether you played it or not the sacrifice of 300 000 Batarians was necessary to save the rest of the galaxy. Whether you played it or not the person tasked with stopping the reapers was Shepard. Whether you played it or not this is integral to the plot of ME3 and is an event that must occur.
However, even those of us who have played Arrival know that the killing of 300,000 Batarians was forced upon us. I made no decision. I was kidnapped and woke up an hour before the Reapers came to wipe out the star system, it was either crash into the relay or let the galaxy get raped by synthetic monsters.
There was no choice. The reapers invaded and we had to slow them down.
Whether you played it or not the sacrifice of 300 000 Batarians was necessary to save the rest of the galaxy. Whether you played it or not the person tasked with stopping the reapers was Shepard. Whether you played it or not this is integral to the plot of ME3 and is an event that must occur.
