284 réponses à ce sujet

[The Twilight God]

Luigitornado wrote...

Oh shut it already.

YOUR Shepard did do it. You just never experienced it.

Nope HIS Shepard let the whole galaxy fall in order to (temporarily) save 300k batarian who where within an hour of dying by the reaper's hand anyway. The whole galaxy fell to the reapers, but hey, his hands are clean. 

So HIS Shepard is dead... along with a trillion others that his inaction, due to his high moral fiber, helped facilitate.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 09 septembre 2011 - 04:45 .

[The Giant Napkin]

littlezack wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

I find it appaling that some people are actually advocating that getting unfinished endproducts as a consumer is acceptable (or even good?!?!?), and that they think it is a SERVICE that they need to fork out extra cash to get the full product.

I find it appaling that some people think they're entitled to things for free.

Arrival is in no way, shape or form meant to be part of the original ME2 experience. It's not like Bioware made it for the game and took it out, or that they intentional left the game unfinished. You're paying for an extra add-on to the game. If you don't like the product in question, fine, but don't tell me that you shouldn't have to pay for it if you want to play, or that it should have been part of the main game. That's bull.

Nope. It's in no way, shape or form meant to be a part of the ME2/ME3 experience or storyline. It's not like, if you don't play it, something doesn't make sense. It's really not as if it is a part of the Mass Effect storyline, which I think is what you pay for if you buy all 3 games, right? Bonus content or an extra add-on is EXTRA. Not a canon, relevant part of the storyline. Therefore you shouldn't get to play this part of the storyline for FREE (because, of course, nobody paid for ME2...).
I can argue your way too and say that what you think is bull and I'm absolutely right. There's two different perspectives here, and it would be nice if you could at least try to understand why people are annoyed with BioWare for doing this. We disagree that Arrival is 'extra': it's definitely part of the game, judging how by ME3, it's part of what happened. Therefore, though I don't want to say ME2 is an unfinished product, or ME3 will be for that matter, but I do think Arrival is something they purposefully left out: it's part of the game, but we need to pay extra for it. That's the issue here, not necessarily a lack of money, but a disagreement with how we need to pay EXTRA for the full experience. I already paid for that...

[SalsaDMA]

Il Divo wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

I find it appaling that some people are actually advocating that getting unfinished endproducts as a consumer is acceptable (or even good?!?!?), and that they think it is a SERVICE that they need to fork out extra cash to get the full product.

I already got the full product with Mass Effect 2. Arrival was a bonus, that's it.

If the plot in ME3 indicates that arrival was undertaken in ME2, then it wasn't a bonus in ME2, but part of the package that the middle part of the series was about.

So no, in that sense you didn't get the full product. Playing ME1->ME2->ME3 without installing EXTRAs, shouldn't mean that any of the parts refer to the EXTRAs as something that is asumed to have been part of the story. Then they are no longer EXTRAs, but plot requirements.

We have yet to see, ofc, how they deal with the issue in ME3, so this debate may be meaningless. But people should stop advocating for getting half a product for a full price.

[SalsaDMA]

littlezack wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

I find it appaling that some people are actually advocating that getting unfinished endproducts as a consumer is acceptable (or even good?!?!?), and that they think it is a SERVICE that they need to fork out extra cash to get the full product.

I find it appaling that some people think they're entitled to things for free.

Arrival is in no way, shape or form meant to be part of the original ME2 experience. It's not like Bioware made it for the game and took it out, or that they intentional left the game unfinished. You're paying for an extra add-on to the game. If you don't like the product in question, fine, but don't tell me that you shouldn't have to pay for it if you want to play, or that it should have been part of the main game. That's bull.

Heavens forbid people expect to get the full product they paid for. There's nothing free with paying for the product in the first place. If a part os plot relevant or required as part of the plot, then it should be part of the product that is about tying the plot of the first and last installment of the series.

If arrival is displayed in ME3 as having been a natural part of ME2, then it should have been a part of the product that was called ME2. Simple as.

Doesn't matter that the part wasn't finished at release of ME2, that just means that ME2 was released in an essentially unfinished state, albeit one that was close to finished. In the past companies didn't demand money to patch their games to full status when released in an unfinished state once the product had already been bought. Greed is becomming more and more appearant in companies these days...

[didymos1120]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Greed is becomming more and more appearant in companies these days...

Here's a tip: there has never been some golden age wherein corporations weren't interested in maximizing profits.  If it seems to be more apparent now, then you weren't really paying attention previously.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Anyone who did not do the Arrival DLC...

When they buy ME3 they will receive an empty box with a note in it that states...

"Thanks for the $$ but in your version the Reapers won."

I stand by this

[RAF1940]

Well, that means that in your playthrough, the Reapers have invade through batarian space and won.

[RAF1940]

The Giant Napkin wrote...


Nope. It's in no way, shape or form meant to be a part of the ME2/ME3 experience or storyline.

You're joking, right? It's called a story-bridging DLC for a reason.


However, I do agree that I shouldn't have to buy DLC to understand a game's storyline. Someone who just beat ME2, but doesn't keep up with DLC and what-not would have no idea why Shepard was in trouble. It's going to be a hugh "WTF?" moment.

Modifié par RAF1940, 10 septembre 2011 - 11:16 .

[didymos1120]

RAF1940 wrote...

The Giant Napkin wrote...


Nope. It's in no way, shape or form meant to be a part of the ME2/ME3 experience or storyline.

You're joking, right? It's called a story-bridging DLC for a reason.


However, I do agree that I shouldn't have to buy DLC to understand a game's storyline. Someone who just beat ME2, but doesn't keep up with DLC and what-not would have no idea why Shepard was in trouble. It's going to be a hugh "WTF?" moment.

This presumes they just won't even bother explaining anything, which we know is not the case.  Casey Hudson has said they've taken the fact that some won't have played Arrival into account.

[RAF1940]

didymos1120 wrote...

This presumes they just won't even bother explaining anything, which we know is not the case.  Casey Hudson has said they've taken the fact that some won't have played Arrival into account.

Hopefully ithey realize that just how many people won't have played Arrival. If I had to guess, I'd say only 5-15% of ME2 owners played Arrival.

A lot of people would've moved on from the game, some don't like DLC, some don't have internet access, and so on.

[essarr71]

RAF1940 wrote...

Hopefully ithey realize that just how many people won't have played Arrival. If I had to guess, I'd say only 5-15% of ME2 owners played Arrival.

A lot of people would've moved on from the game, some don't like DLC, some don't have internet access, and so on.

If 85-95% of the people moved on from the game, then they won't be bothered much by not being "involved" in the bridging DLC.

So essentially people who are raging against Arrival (and only arrival, which is pretty lame seeing as LotSB is just as canon and falls under all their arguments as well) are a very slim % of people who are interested in the game but chose not to fork over the $10 (completely their choice.. they can spend their money however they want).  So essentially they're what? 2 - 3% of ME2 purchasers who are upset? 5 - 10%?

Either way, they're in a very small minority.

By YOUR made up numbers, at least.

Fact is, all the people who restart these threads over and over are late to the party.  We didn't see them when bioware announced the DLC would be bridging, so why the delay?  Coould they not find a way to save $10?  Or would they rather have bridging DLC be about very minor, pointless stuff (cause I'm sure the same people wouldn't be pissed about that too.)?

[BatmanPWNS]

Shepard has a small time memory since, right after Kensons bullsh*ting, Shepards completely forgets what he was gonna do in the first place, which in my case was to call the Batarians to warn them. (That or Kenson blocked all communications but I doubt it) Also I think Bioware just put that in so we can experience what difficult choices real soldiers/marine have to go through.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Wait I thought "WTF" moments at the beginning of games was something BioWare was good at...

I remember I died at the beginning of ME2 and said "WTF"

[RAF1940]

essarr71 wrote...

By YOUR made up numbers, at least.

I didn't simply "make up" numbers. I made a logical guess.

[Chuvvy]

DLC's canon, just like the books.

[littlezack]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

I find it appaling that some people are actually advocating that getting unfinished endproducts as a consumer is acceptable (or even good?!?!?), and that they think it is a SERVICE that they need to fork out extra cash to get the full product.

I already got the full product with Mass Effect 2. Arrival was a bonus, that's it.

If the plot in ME3 indicates that arrival was undertaken in ME2, then it wasn't a bonus in ME2, but part of the package that the middle part of the series was about.

So no, in that sense you didn't get the full product. Playing ME1->ME2->ME3 without installing EXTRAs, shouldn't mean that any of the parts refer to the EXTRAs as something that is asumed to have been part of the story. Then they are no longer EXTRAs, but plot requirements.

We have yet to see, ofc, how they deal with the issue in ME3, so this debate may be meaningless. But people should stop advocating for getting half a product for a full price.

Half a product? Arrival is equivalent to half of ME2? Oh, lord.

[essarr71]

RAF1940 wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

By YOUR made up numbers, at least.

I didn't simply "make up" numbers. I made a logical guess.

By YOUR logic then.  Without something to back up your guesses, logical or illogical, theyre just made up.  You may just be right, but until you show something to back up your numbers, they're just YOUR made up numbers.

But hey, if I got to explain that sort of logic during a debate..

[Omega4RelayResident]

People can pose hypothetical numbers in debates... as long as they are stated as hypothetical... they are used for comparisons or to illustrate a point... get off his back

[essarr71]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

People can pose hypothetical numbers in debates... as long as they are stated as hypothetical... they are used for comparisons or to illustrate a point... get off his back

I'd love to.  I used his numbers in my response, HE then called me out for pointing out that it's all hypothetical. 

Sooo.. get off mine.  

[Omega4RelayResident]

essarr71 wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

People can pose hypothetical numbers in debates... as long as they are stated as hypothetical... they are used for comparisons or to illustrate a point... get off his back

I'd love to.  I used his numbers in my response, HE then called me out for pointing out that it's all hypothetical. 

Sooo.. get off mine.  

Wut? Did you just say I am not alowed to defend someone? Really? Badgering the guy about a hypothetical number is not the way to play the forum game... thats all I said.

[essarr71]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Wut? Did you just say I am not alowed to defend someone? Really? Badgering the guy about a hypothetical number is not the way to play the forum game... thats all I said.

Where did I say you couldn't defend someone?  I wasn't badgering him.  Read our exchange.  I used his numbers to back up my side and threw in the reminder that it was all hypothetical.

Do you think I'm wrong? 

[Omega4RelayResident]

No I just think it was a bit much is all

[Il Divo]

SalsaDMA wrote...

If the plot in ME3 indicates that arrival was undertaken in ME2, then it wasn't a bonus in ME2, but part of the package that the middle part of the series was about.

This logic would also lead to sequels and expansions never being produced. Bioware announced that they would make story-bridging dlc from the very beginning. This content was not designed until after the main game was completed, so they released the main campaign of ME2.  

So no, in that sense you didn't get the full product. Playing ME1->ME2->ME3 without installing EXTRAs, shouldn't mean that any of the parts refer to the EXTRAs as something that is asumed to have been part of the story. Then they are no longer EXTRAs, but plot requirements.

So what is ME1 if not an "extra"? I'm pretty certain that's necessary for the story of ME2 and ME3. There is no law which states what form Bioware must or must not continue the storyline in. If they want to change the venue to a novel, that's their call. Every sequel, expansion, or dlc is an "extra", in the end.

We have yet to see, ofc, how they deal with the issue in ME3, so this debate may be meaningless. But people should stop advocating for getting half a product for a full price.

And you should stop making assumptions about other people's arguments, particularly when you try to pass dlc off as "half the product".

Modifié par Il Divo, 10 septembre 2011 - 01:50 .