166 réponses à ce sujet

[Shad0wOGRE]

Any machine that can have a "math error" that makes them decide wiping out organics is a good idea needs to be dealt with.

Killing them with nuclear fire sounds good, it has weight.

[Dean_the_Young]

lovgreno wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...
3) Project Overlord was a failure... or did you miss all the dead bodies on the way in.

You mean a success, right?

The Human/V.I. hybrid was able to influence and control many geth as well as other technology. Nobody else, nobody, except maybe the Heretics, has ever achieved this.

And also almost release a super virus to cripple all technology in the galaxy. That would hardly make humanitys chances in the coming reaper war better, so there is another example on how Cerberus and TIMmy is the greatest threat to humanitys survival after the reapers.

And Shepard 'almost' lost the galaxy a number of times.
And the True Geth almost let themselves be turned into Heretics. If you
want to judge almosts and could have beens, fine, but let's not go overboard, shall we?

When the geth hears about it they will probably retaliate hard on Cerberus for being a threat to the freedom of their race. Luckily for Shepard the stain of failiure that is the Cerberus logo is washed of his ship by then.

I'd be sincerely impressed if they could do any better than the Council and Alliance have been for decades. 'Intelligence' isn't one of the Geth's strong points.

[Dean_the_Young]

Phategod1 wrote...

You can find a reason to distrust any race. And I do mean any race, hell with the proper opportunity even the volus could pose a threat. I trust the geth more then the quarians, fellow humans, or Salarians. as far as your example you must have missed a lot of dialogue in ME2 cause legion explained *spoilers* that the geth do not want to advance on the established tech of someone else. The geth May not have a distinct moral code but they have a rationale to everything they do, and seeing as there simply acting as care takers they clearly do not kill indiscriminately .

Who told you this?

A geth.

Who stands to benefit from deceiving you if the Geth actually weren't benevolent?

The geth.


You don't take the word of a suspect that he's innocent and call it a day.

[Dean_the_Young]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

As far as i understands Overlord there were no Geth on Aite only platforms - which David could control, But thinking that David could control Geth is like thinking you can mind control anybody just by taking a drive in their car.

I am lost... I cant see the connection you are trying to make.

The Geth are programs - the platforms are just the programs means of getting around.

But the programs inside have sentience... just like a computer there are hardwired programs that cant be "deleted" so a single geth program has no more than animal intelligence. True those Geth did not have the Intelligence of truly networked Geth but there was still something there. It was never stated that those Geth were completely devoid of any Geth programs. They were non functional... in the case of Geth when they "die" as a race Legion stated that their collective memories would become uploaded to a storage mainframe. So technically there are no active programs but the "brain" is still intact to a degree. Not a huge degree. I had Legion with me on the mission and he offered no arguments against killing the Geth platforms. They were without power for a long time I interpreted.

Think of it like as if you had a heart attack. Your body died. Your brain is still active enough that if you get revived within 5 minutes of the moment of death you end up suffering minimal brain damage. For Geth that timeframe could be astronomically longer. So by bringing those Geth online you are reviving them and now they are hooked up to a VI that is hooked up to a scared autistic person. I believe there was still some sentience in those Geth platforms.... otherwise they were no more than Mechs..... why study how to control Mechs?.... we alreay have those.

Because nobody knows how the Geth works, Hell Shepard didn't even know until Legion told him/her, The rest of the galaxy including Cerberus thinks that Geth = Platforms.

But they don't work like that, The Geth have evolved since they were created by the quarrians, Geth of time of ME 1/2 primary resides in sever hubs and when needed they take a platform out for a spin and if they platform goes Boom they just upload to the server again.

Geth ship crashes.
Geth 1 :"F***".
Geth 2 :"Man you're the worst pilot ever".
Geth 1:"Yeah yeah nag nag".
Geth 2:"Hitpoints are below 10%.. this bird won't fly again".
Geth 1:"Upload?".
Geth 2:"Yup.. ALIGHT PEOPLE RESPAWN AT BASE"
Geth 5:"Awww man this is my third respawn this week.. i need a respec".

While this is a good theory, it has a critical flaw:

Geth transmit copies of themselves when they. 'They' don't go anywhere. It's email, not teleportation: even if the Geth on the ship did what you said, there would still be Geth on the ship because, well, the programs never 'left.'

Besides which, if they had left they could well have sabotaged the ship and their own frames. And Archer wouldn't have been able to recover those geth from the ship that David wound up talking to.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 08 septembre 2011 - 06:46 .

[AnAccountWithNoName]

The thing that makes me have a hard time trusting them is there lack of morality.

Im not trying to say the Geth shouldn't be trusted because can be dangerous. Heck, humanity is dangerous. However unlike humanity, the Geth don't have morals.

It's like trying to put my trust in a person who has no moral code. Which im sure in real life, we would never do.

Would you trust a sociopath, someone lacking a conscience? I think not.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Say what now? Assuming what Legion says is indeed true, one could argue that 95-ish percent of the geth do have morals.

[Someone With Mass]

Considering that Legion's programs are in conflict regarding the decision on his loyalty mission, I'd say the geth have morals.

Just not the exact same morals as we do.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 08 septembre 2011 - 08:42 .

[whywhywhywhy]

Given the geth reaction to the Quarians, no. I think Legion can be trusted... for the moment.

[Ianamus]

jreezy wrote...

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

The thing that makes me have a hard time trusting them is there lack of morality.

Im not trying to say the Geth shouldn't be trusted because can be dangerous. Heck, humanity is dangerous. However unlike humanity, the Geth don't have morals.

It's like trying to put my trust in a person who has no moral code. Which im sure in real life, we would never do.

Would you trust a sociopath, someone lacking a conscience? I think not.

You really compared the Geth to a sociopath? Wow.

Since the Geth have no morals or social concience they are technically sociopaths. 

Someone With Mass wrote...

Considering that Legion's programs are in conflict regarding the decision on his loyalty mission, I'd say the geth have morals.

Just not the exact same morals as we do.

I think it was just a conflict over which action was most efficient/ would benefit the Geth more. Not whether or not one decision was morally ""right" or "wrong"

The truth is that the Geth are selfish creatures who only care about furthering their own goals. At least the Quarians have been shown to help people who are suffering (They sent all of those resources and equipment to the Turian colony that was hit by a disaster). 

They can be trusted to help kill the reapers, as that benefits them, but after that they'll just stay in their space stations for eternity computing pi. No help to the overall galactic community at all. 

Modifié par EJ107, 08 septembre 2011 - 11:01 .

[Ghost Warrior]

Can anyone really be trusted? Aaaaaah...

[Zakatak757]

You got this the wrong way around. Can the Geth really trust anyone?

I have no doubt the heretics were purged in ME2, thanks to Legion. But you don't take a Geth ship to the Citadel, walk up to the council and be all like "hey guyz we cool now!" Until the Quarians tell everyone, which will probably earn them plenty of distrust, nobody knows who the Geth really are.

[WolfForce99]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
You're the one dismissing an entire DLC to support your anti-Cerberus crusade, dear. I don't think I'm the one rejecting established facts for anything.

though I did laugh at the irony.

Yeah, because I can actually think for myself and know when the game is contradicting itself. 

But go ahead with your fascist Cerberus propaganda. I'm sure the rest of the galaxy will kindly bow down to a dictator TIM.

I would like to know how Overlord contradicts it's self.

[Goneaviking]

The Geth can be trusted as much as anyone else can.

That is, they can be trusted to protect their own interests. It's true they haven't ever been known to attempt to forge relations with other species, but by the same token it's also true they've only attempted to do harm to others once since the Quarians were forced into exile and the evidence available suggests that was a minority at the time and has been almost entirely wiped out prior to ME3 (even at time of Shepard's resurrection the war against the Geth had been reduced to a mopping up operation rather than a full-on war).

Most likely, they'll continue their self-imposed isolation after the Reaper invasion has been dealt with.

[Goneaviking]

EJ107 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

The thing that makes me have a hard time trusting them is there lack of morality.

Im not trying to say the Geth shouldn't be trusted because can be dangerous. Heck, humanity is dangerous. However unlike humanity, the Geth don't have morals.

It's like trying to put my trust in a person who has no moral code. Which im sure in real life, we would never do.

Would you trust a sociopath, someone lacking a conscience? I think not.

You really compared the Geth to a sociopath? Wow.

Since the Geth have no morals or social concience they are technically sociopaths. 

Someone With Mass wrote...

Considering that Legion's programs are in conflict regarding the decision on his loyalty mission, I'd say the geth have morals.

Just not the exact same morals as we do.

I think it was just a conflict over which action was most efficient/ would benefit the Geth more. Not whether or not one decision was morally ""right" or "wrong"

The truth is that the Geth are selfish creatures who only care about furthering their own goals. At least the Quarians have been shown to help people who are suffering (They sent all of those resources and equipment to the Turian colony that was hit by a disaster). 

They can be trusted to help kill the reapers, as that benefits them, but after that they'll just stay in their space stations for eternity computing pi. No help to the overall galactic community at all. 

Legion's soul-searching when discussing the rogues' plan to reprogram the main body of Geth, and the realisation that they'd been spying on them for years seemed a lot like it had some form of a conscience to me. That both actions had literally been unthinkable up until the rogues attempted them, and the inability to decide on the correct way to handle the situation... don't forget that Legion expressed confusion and sought to understand what they'd done to provoke them to such taboo activities.

Its observation that it is unreasonable to judge other cultures by any standards other than their own seems like a philosophy based out of a decision of conscience as well. It's a fairly common occurrence to see people denounce foreign cultures as amoral, or even immoral, because the speaker doesn't understand/accept the reasoning used by the others; but that doesn't remove the reality that they invariably have codes of behaviours and some kind of understanding of what is "good" and "fair" and what constitutes the opposite.

Even if you're correct that they will do nothing to benefit the rest of the galactic community after the war, what does that matter if they're doing no harm? That they show no interest in interferring with other races seems like an accept moral standard for them to hold to if it's practiced consistently.

[Someone With Mass]

WolfForce99 wrote...
I would like to know how Overlord contradicts it's self.

Legion says that a verbal language is too inefficient for the geth, and that they're communicating at FTL speeds, so Legion can for example go through all the logs and data that were collected during his stay on the Normandy before Shepard can even open his mouth. So what does Overlord do? Well, it comes up with a geth language that a human can speak, of course!

[WolfForce99]

Someone With Mass wrote...

WolfForce99 wrote...
I would like to know how Overlord contradicts it's self.

Legion says that a verbal language is too inefficient for the geth, and that they're communicating at FTL speeds, so Legion can for example go through all the logs and data that were collected during his stay on the Normandy before Shepard can even open his mouth. So what does Overlord do? Well, it comes up with a geth language that a human can speak, of course!

Thanks, This makes sense.

[Dean_the_Young]

Geth communicate at FTL speeds when they are in hubs. When they aren't connected to each other directly, they still have to communicate via other medium. Like those screetches and clicks they've always had that resemble the old dial-up effect.

Overlord didn't establish a geth language that Geth primarily rely on. It just piggybacked on 'savant mind can understand crazy math' trope. And since Geth do have to communicate by mathematical protocols when they are in separate bodies...

Geth have always communicated with eachother by non-linked means. Even in ME1.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:06 .

[Someone With Mass]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Geth communicate at FTL speeds when they are in hubs. When they aren't connected to each other directly, they still have to communicate via other medium. Like those screetches and clicks they've always had that resemble the old dial-up effect.

Overlord didn't establish a geth language that Geth primarily rely on. It just piggybacked on 'savant mind can understand crazy math' trope. And since Geth do have to communicate by mathematical protocols when they are in separate bodies...

That still doesn't explain how he knows how to pronounce something that I don't even think a human is capable of simply by being good at math.

[Dean_the_Young]

Someone With Mass wrote...

That still doesn't explain how he knows how to pronounce something that I don't even think a human is capable of simply by being good at math.

Because he's an autistic savant. Don't you know? Mental illnesses are superpowers that allow people who suffer them to do things normal people can't.

Yes, it's a generic plot device handwave. Much like Lazarus Project, e-zero, biotics, and the Geth themselves.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:10 .

[Big I]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
The thing that makes me have a hard time trusting them is there lack of morality.

Im not trying to say the Geth shouldn't be trusted because can be dangerous. Heck, humanity is dangerous. However unlike humanity, the Geth don't have morals.

It's like trying to put my trust in a person who has no moral code. Which im sure in real life, we would never do.

Would you trust a sociopath, someone lacking a conscience? I think not.

This is untrue. If we assume that Legion is telling at least part of the truth, which is logical considering he joined the SM, we can use the conversations with him to determine some of the particulars of geth behaviour and ethics. For instance:


1) All intelligent life should self determinate.

2) The journey towards a goal is as important as achieveing said goal.

3) Slavery or forced servitude is immoral.

4) If attacked/interfered with it is moral (at least for the geth) to respond with overwhelming force.

5) It is moral to spread dissinformation to organics in order to study their reactions.

6) It is important to maintan and preserve the former quarian worlds despite the geth not using them.

7) A sense of community/home is less about physical places and more about shared society and experience.

Modifié par LookingGlass93, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:13 .

[Someone With Mass]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Because he's an autistic savant. Don't you know? Mental illnesses are superpowers that allow people who suffer them to do things normal people can't.

Yes, it's a generic plot device handwave. Much like Lazarus Project, e-zero, biotics, and the Geth themselves.

When you're basing the whole story of the DLC on it, you have to come up with something a little more structurally stable than that, since anyone who has a basic knowledge about autism will be able to call BS.

[Capt_Flashheart]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Geth communicate at FTL speeds when they are in hubs. When they aren't connected to each other directly, they still have to communicate via other medium. Like those screetches and clicks they've always had that resemble the old dial-up effect.

Overlord didn't establish a geth language that Geth primarily rely on. It just piggybacked on 'savant mind can understand crazy math' trope. And since Geth do have to communicate by mathematical protocols when they are in separate bodies...

Geth have always communicated with eachother by non-linked means. Even in ME1.

I think there's been a slight misunderstanding here. Legion says the Geth communicate at the speed of light, not faster than it. The Geth only communicate at FTL speeds when using FTL communication relays.

When connected via hubs they can only interact as fast as their signals can move through their hardware (which is of course limited to the speed of light). When they aren't physically connected, Geth platforms can still communicate at the regular speed of light by using radiowaves.

The Geth don't generally use aural/analogue communication methods (like screeches and clicks) because, as Legion says, they are inefficient.