20 réponses à ce sujet

[Bleachrude]

 A combination of "what-if" and ramblings...

As the topic says, of all the grey warden "secrets" what do you think actually NEEDS to be a secret and what do you think would not be that bad if it was well known?

Reason why I ask is because if it is well known for centuries "why a grey warden has to be the one to kill the archdemon", does this change anything...for example, assuming Loghain actually believes it, would Loghain actually allow for the grey wardens to be put into a situation where they could all be wiped out...

Does knowing for example that grey warden only have a 30 yr life span/lowered fertility cause a serious decrease in numbers?

If the joining s known to be fatal, how many volunteers can you expect then?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Limited lifespan would be an issue for many I think, especially those in a relationship. Ditto fertility, if people wanted to have kids (and in medieval times, continuing a bloodline or having heirs to inherit a holding or farm, or help run it, could be very important).

The risk of fatality is a big one. People can fight the darkspawn in between Blights almost as well as Grey Wardens, after all, they just run the risk of being tainted. Once they're tainted, then there's little reason not to attempt a Joining.

It's well-known that Grey Wardens have to kill the archdemon, but it's not well-known as to why. The archdemon's soul killing its killer -- I'm not sure why this is a secret considering Blights and archdemons don't pop up every other day. It's not like death-by-archdemon is any more likely than death-by-rampaging-ox (and Loghain didn't believe there was an archdemon at all, so it wouldn't have mattered).

I think that the biggest secret that should be kept is drinking darkspawn blood. That's all sorts of nasty blood magic-type stuff, and could be twisted into the Grey Wardens being in league with the darkspawn via the taint, since they can 'hear' the archdemon etc.

Also, while it's only been alluded to in game, there have always been few female Wardens but we are never told why. If the fate of f!Wardens who go on their Calling is, death notwithstanding, rape by darkspawn attempting to turn you into a broodmother, that might be a good thing to keep quiet about. That sort of thing could inspire suicide.

[Bleachrude]

Actually, I wonder though, given that most of Thedas are Andrastian, don't they believe in souls and that when they die, they go to the side of the Maker/meet their family...

My impression was that killing the archdemon annihilated BOTH souls..I could easily see TYHAT being even more of an issue for people than "drinking darkspawn" blood...The idea that you'll never see your family/be at the side of the maker if you kill the archdemon?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

For some, I agree there could be dire religious implications, whether or not they are accurate in their beliefs.. But again, Blights are few and far between, and the chances of Warden # 845 drawing the short straw and killing an archdemon are, while possible, remote.

I could argue the religious implications of drinking darkspawn blood too (funnily enough, role-playing a character in this situation right now). Chantry doctrine is that taint was supposed to be the Maker's curse on mankind for invading the Golden City. For a medieval society, it would not be a huge stretch for Andrastians to believe that taint, being an stain on the soul that cannot be cleansed, is a sign of divine judgement. Get tainted, don't go to Maker's side, doomed to wander the Fade forever (or something worse, who knows?).

[Wulfram]

The high casualty rate of the Joining is surely impossible to hide. 3 warden recruits go into the ruined temple, later 1 warden and 2 dead bodies come out. Anora apparently knew about it anyway, and will tell the rest of the Landsmeet.

People would notice the lack of old wardens. They might just think it's because being a Warden is really dangerous, but I'm not sure that's an improvement.

[Klidi]

DA is happening during the middle-age. There would be rumours, but I doubt anything about Grey Wardens would be 'well known' among common people. There were no reliable sources of information avaialable for common folk, many of which probably couldn't even read and write.
Information were spread mainly by re-telling, and we know how that works, especially among uneducated people full of superstitions. If they would mention that the Warden drinks the darkspawn blood and becomes tainted, soon there would be rumours about Wardens turning into bloody vampires, or something similar.
I believe some information would be available for more educated people who have access to the big libraries - mages, scholars, nobles. Even that would be full of half-truths, unverified 'facts', and superstitions...

[The Xand]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
Also, while it's only been alluded to in game, there have always been few female Wardens but we are never told why. If the fate of f!Wardens who go on their Calling is, death notwithstanding, rape by darkspawn attempting to turn you into a broodmother, that might be a good thing to keep quiet about. That sort of thing could inspire suicide.

Pretty sure the girls weren't physically raped as I doubt the darkspawn have the necessary equipment for that. From what I gathered it was from force feeding them tainted meat though, which I suppose might be miscontrued as a form of "rape".

As for the Grey Wardens keeping their secrets, as has already been pointed out the joining ritual reeks of blood magic and would be used by their political foes against them, the shortened lifespan would put off wannabe heroes and being subjected to the taint and brought one step closer to being a darkspawn would put off the religious.

Modifié par The Xand, 10 septembre 2011 - 04:12 .

[Klidi]

Feeding them the meat is not the only thing darkspawn do to women. Hespith says:

But the women, they want. They want to touch, to mold, to change until you are filled with them.

Seventh day, she grew as in her mouth they spew.

Eighth day, we hate it as she is violated.


But physical or 'only' mental rape, the result is the same - the woman becomes the beast, the broodmother. I don't think any woman would be happy to hear that - they'll take you and turn you into the broodmother - but don't worry, they won't really rape you!

[GSSAGE7]

Klidi wrote...
but don't worry, they won't really rape you!

  Only on the Internet will these words, in this order, be typed, without a hint of irony.

[Costin_Razvan]

It's well-known that Grey Wardens have to kill the archdemon, but it's not well-known as to why.

I am not sure why exactly people say this. I don't recall any character saying it's necesary for a Grey Warden to kill an Archdemon.

[Klidi]

GSSAGE7 wrote...

Klidi wrote...
but don't worry, they won't really rape you!

  Only on the Internet will these words, in this order, be typed, without a hint of irony.

it actually was irony

[Klidi]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

It's well-known that Grey Wardens have to kill the archdemon, but it's not well-known as to why.

I am not sure why exactly people say this. I don't recall any character saying it's necesary for a Grey Warden to kill an Archdemon.

Riordan explains it - if anyone else kills the archedmon, its soul moves to another darkspawn and it's resurrected. In order to really kill it, it must be the Grey Warden - because GW are tainted as well, the archdemon's soul moves to their body, but as they are not really darkspawn, it is destroyed, together with the soul of the GW.

[Costin_Razvan]

Yes Riordan explains it and I am aware of it. The question is how is that a well known fact that a Grey Warden must kill an Archdemon as Shadow of Light puts it.

[Wulfram]

Cailan says something along the lines of "Isn't that what your men are here for?" when Duncan brings up the possibility of the Archdemon turning up.

And it's generally known that they're necessary to defeat a blight, though the Warden can remark to Riordan that they though this was an exaggeration.

[ejoslin]

I think it was well known that the gray warden dies defeating the blight (even Zevran mentions that in a roundabout way), but I'm not sure that it's common knowledge that it HAS to be a gray warden. Most people probably believe that the Gray Wardens are guardians of the people, but probably not that it absolutely has to be a Gray Warden striking the final blow.

[Costin_Razvan]

I agree that a lot of people know about Grey Wardens dying fighting Archdemons, or at least Garahel, but as far I as know no one believes they are needed to do it ( well unless they know about what being a Warden involves. )

[Chuvvy]

I don't really understand why most of it's a secret. I mean, if you're willing to devote your life to fighting Darkspawn, chances are you don't care about living into your eighties, you probably don't have a problem with dying to kill the Archdemon and you probably don't want a family. Although I can understand the ritual being a secret, it seems pretty bloodmagicy and the chantry can't have that.

[nicethugbert]

I think the right of conscription wouldn't be the same if people knew it was a death sentence.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 11 septembre 2011 - 12:37 .

[GSSAGE7]

Slidell505 wrote...

I don't really understand why most of it's a secret. I mean, if you're willing to devote your life to fighting Darkspawn, chances are you don't care about living into your eighties, you probably don't have a problem with dying to kill the Archdemon and you probably don't want a family. Although I can understand the ritual being a secret, it seems pretty bloodmagicy and the chantry can't have that.

If it was just death, it wouldn't be a problem. If you kill the archdemon, your soul is destroyed. In 30 years, you don't just drop dead, you become a slightly less mindless ghoul.

[The Xand]

nicethugbert wrote...

I think the right of conscription wouldn't be the same if people knew it was a death sentence.

Strange to think that the Grey Wardens are essentially a penal legion. No wonder their heraldry focuses on gaudy gryphon imagery as opposed to the usual skulls and imagery of death you'dexpect from such a corps. They gots to keep it secret D:

[Chuvvy]

GSSAGE7 wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

I don't really understand why most of it's a secret. I mean, if you're willing to devote your life to fighting Darkspawn, chances are you don't care about living into your eighties, you probably don't have a problem with dying to kill the Archdemon and you probably don't want a family. Although I can understand the ritual being a secret, it seems pretty bloodmagicy and the chantry can't have that.

If it was just death, it wouldn't be a problem. If you kill the archdemon, your soul is destroyed. In 30 years, you don't just drop dead, you become a slightly less mindless ghoul.

You die against the Darkspawn, and if you die in the DA universe you only have a small chance of going to hang out with the Maker and play the harp. Most people just end up wandering the fade. And how do they know your soul is destroyed? I doubt there's a test. Admitidly killing the Archdemon would probably get you a ticket in regardless.