371 réponses à ce sujet

[Chris Priestly]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

The problem is that people are seeing a trusted friend (and possibly lover) trivialized and sexualized by an exploitative anime sculptor.  It's bad enough that Liara felt the need to wear push-up space armor in LotSB, but now she may feel pressured to get eezo breast implants to keep pace with the unrealistic body image being foisted upon her by predatory entertainment media.

Aside from the emotional trauma this will cause the Bioware fanbase, there's also the matter of retconning our internal role-playing stories.  There could be thousands of pages of fanfic that will need adjustment to accommodate Liara's body image (and bigger boobs, in some of the more...exotic...writing).

The scope of this outrage is much wider than a simple decision not to by some sort of manga/anime statue.

While I appreciate your enjoyment of our characters... "emotional trauma"? Seriously? I would suggest you are over exaggerating this (or I hope so anyways).

Different artists, sculptors, musicians, etc have different takes on the piece of art they are working on (no matter the medium). Just because Todd Macfarlane draws Batman in one way and Gil Kane draws him another doesn't make one or the otehr better or more iconic. And just because Wonder Woman is drawn more voluptous by one artist, and less so by another doesn't make one or the other canon or better or insulting or whatever. They are different interpretations.

If we had asked famous artists like Salvador Dali, Annie Liebovitz and Robert Crumb to create their interpretation of Liara (or any ME character) I doubt they would be the same. And I know not everyone would like what they each came up with, beacuase different people have different interpretations of what "art" is. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that. And, as with all works of art, if you do not like it, do not support it, view it, buy it, etc.

[RPGamer13]

T764 wrote...

As an Otaku, i don't care. As a Mass Effect fan, i still don't care.
The figure just doesn't look that good.

It's by Kotobukiya that's the style they use. It's look and the reaction to an anime statue should've been obvious.

I am just pissed off at the fact people want it to be changed to something completely different from its intended style because they don't like it and don't even consider there are other people out there who'd love to buy the statue.

Even if I wasn't into Mass Effect, if I collected figures and just randomly saw it, I'd be likely to buy it.  Why?  Because I like bishojo and think the face looks great, much better than how her face looks in the games.

And even if I didn'tlike it, I'd still acknowledge that there might be others out there that would and hope it does sell regardless.

Nyoka wrote...

You have written the same basic post several times on the forums now and I'm curious. All your messages on this are about how it is different and unique and diverse and outside the box and all that. You never address the fact that Liara is supposed to be the Shadow Broker and a freaking powerful biotic but it is portrayed as a spine-curving, underaged yet-another-hawt-babe in a doctor costume. The fact that Liara never makes that pose and never has that expression (not to mention that's simply not her face at all). Is the childlike face attractive enough to override the disappointing fact that this statue shows a completely different person? (a less interesting person in my opinion, because there are a million hawt babes already, but only one Shadow Broker). Is it that you recognize Liara in that statue because what you mostly see in Liara when you play LotSB is her boobs?

What's your opinion about the criticisms made on blogs and other places about this? Do you consider them unfounded or you like the statue despite them?

Everyone's views are different, you don't see how the statue could be any of that, but I can.

And it's not about having an attractive face.  From an aesthetics point, I like the way the statue looks over all.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

It's basically fan art given the license from BioWare to sell.

That's a great way to put it, wish I had thought of it.  You seem more reasonable than other people, hell even myself.

Modifié par RPGamer13, 08 septembre 2011 - 05:13 .

[eyesofastorm]

I think the statue is ridiculous too Priestly. Bioware has lost its effing mind in the mainstream. Just my opinion of course.

Modifié par eyesofastorm, 08 septembre 2011 - 05:13 .

[Jayce]

*Scratches head*


Erm, repost...?

[Captain Crash]

Nyoka wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

I really do like the fact Bioware and marketing are thinking outside the box as you say Chris. I know people have been vocal in the dislike for the figure, but I personally will be snapping it up as soon as pre-orders are announced.  I hope similar products are just as inventive and unique.   I know not all of it will be to my taste but it certainly will be for others.  Much like this figure is showing now.


Anyway as a active customer in the Bioware Store all I can say is I am pleased you guys are diversifying more and im looking forward to what else you come up with.

You have written the same basic post several times on the forums now and I'm curious. All your messages on this are about how it is different and unique and diverse and outside the box and all that. You never address the fact that Liara is supposed to be the Shadow Broker and a freaking powerful biotic but it is portrayed as a spine-curving, underaged yet-another-hawt-babe in a doctor costume. The fact that Liara never makes that pose and never has that expression (not to mention that's simply not her face at all). Is the childlike face attractive enough to override the disappointing fact that this statue shows a completely different person? (a less interesting person in my opinion, because there are a million hawt babes already, but only one Shadow Broker). Is it that you recognize Liara in that statue because what you mostly see in Liara when you play LotSB is her boobs?

What's your opinion about the criticisms made on blogs and other places about this? Do you consider them unfounded or you like the statue despite them?

I wouldnt say basic, I gone into more detail about a number of times. Although that one there was simply stating my attitude I admit.  Dont get me wrong I certainly think the face needs some work and she certainly needs a reduced bust.  I did say that in one my early posts on the other thread.  Im not blind to those inconstancies and I know why people are upset about it.  

Thing is the concept art from when it was announced showed that this was going to be a "unique" (anime styled) version of her and instantly showed the direction. She had long legs in the photo, an anime styled facial expression and did have a bust (albeit the model is much larger).   If you seen any other Kotobukiya figures they are all styled that way.  Bioware never played the safe option here so I can understand if people are disappointed and wanted a more realistic model.   However for all intents and purposes this is exactly the model I expected and was under no illusion how it would look.  

I like how its styled and I feel its an interesting take on an established character.  Yes I am a Liara fan as you know and dont feel I should be victimised for liking the new take on her.  Im starting to feel like some sort of criminal amongst fans for liking it which I dont think is right.  

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

The problem is that people are seeing a trusted friend (and possibly lover) trivialized and sexualized by an exploitative anime sculptor.  It's bad enough that Liara felt the need to wear push-up space armor in LotSB, but now she may feel pressured to get eezo breast implants to keep pace with the unrealistic body image being foisted upon her by predatory entertainment media.

Aside from the emotional trauma this will cause the Bioware fanbase, there's also the matter of retconning our internal role-playing stories.  There could be thousands of pages of fanfic that will need adjustment to accommodate Liara's body image (and bigger boobs, in some of the more...exotic...writing).

The scope of this outrage is much wider than a simple decision not to by some sort of manga/anime statue.

While I appreciate your enjoyment of our characters... "emotional trauma"? Seriously? I would suggest you are over exaggerating this (or I hope so anyways).

Different artists, sculptors, musicians, etc have different takes on the piece of art they are working on (no matter the medium). Just because Todd Macfarlane draws Batman in one way and Gil Kane draws him another doesn't make one or the otehr better or more iconic. And just because Wonder Woman is drawn more voluptous by one artist, and less so by another doesn't make one or the other canon or better or insulting or whatever. They are different interpretations.

If we had asked famous artists like Salvador Dali, Annie Liebovitz and Robert Crumb to create their interpretation of Liara (or any ME character) I doubt they would be the same. And I know not everyone would like what they each came up with, beacuase different people have different interpretations of what "art" is. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that. And, as with all works of art, if you do not like it, do not support it, view it, buy it, etc.

You know what sums up these boards perfectly?  The fact that two people have already commented on my post with a straight face.  No, my post wasn't serious, but it was utterly plausible.

I can't imagine what it must be like trying to design anything to please this fanbase. 

[ScorpSt]

nitefyre410 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

The only thing "wrong" with it is the Gerber Baby face.

 

I'm not a big  fan of the pose  and Liara has always had a Gerber face  no matter who renders her -  thats just her face. IMO 

It's not her face. I'm looking at her face right now and I can tell you that the face on this statue is wrong. Her nose is too small and her forehead's too big.

I think the problem is because they slanted her eyes. They start out in the right place oun the outside edge of the head, but then they go down, shrinking the nose and making her forehead look huge.

I could somach the pose, the increased bust size, and the added Samara-style cleavage, but that just isn't Liara's face. It's some girl wearing a Liara suit.

[nitefyre410]

ScorpSt wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

The only thing "wrong" with it is the Gerber Baby face.

 

I'm not a big  fan of the pose  and Liara has always had a Gerber face  no matter who renders her -  thats just her face. IMO 

It's not her face. I'm looking at her face right now and I can tell you that the face on this statue is wrong. Her nose is too small and her forehead's too big.

I think the problem is because they slanted her eyes. They start out in the right place oun the outside edge of the head, but then they go down, shrinking the nose and making her forehead look huge.

I could somach the pose, the increased bust size, and the added Samara-style cleavage, but that just isn't Liara's face. It's some girl wearing a Liara suit.

 

I was never a big fan of how Liara looked to start out - every arist is going to render a face different ,  A Michael Turner  Render is going   be different from a Sal Laroca  from a Stephen  Sejic from a Mike Choi from a Tite Kubo   My  option and issue is her face no matther who renders it is not all that attractive to start.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I am not a big fan of anime/manga personally. As such, I won't be buying this statue. I suggest other people who don't like it also not buy it. This also works for foods you don't like to eat or clothes you don't like to wear. This may sound like madness, but you are not forced to buy things you don't like.

For those who do like the anime/manga style, I think thsi is a very cool statue. As I said, it isn't for me, but I know there will be people out there who'll snap this up when it is available. I like that the ME team is thinking "outside the box" and looking at merchandise that is different. Hopefully there'll be other statues, toys, trinkets, etc that come out which fans are not expecting.

STOP BEING RATIONAL THE BSN BOARDS CAN'T HANDLE IT!!

[javierabegazo]

I'm moving this to the character forum. It's not anything relating remotely to ME3.

[aries1001]

Aren't anime or manga famous for their focus on -ahem- breasts (big) and eyes (also big and innocent)?
This might explain it.

However, I have another problem with this figurine of Liara. It seems to me that is has been said or told (by the devs) that the most important thing in Asari mating are the tentacles.....you know, the blue things in top of their heads.

Why then make statue or figurine where the focus lies on the breasts as it would do for humans? Also, I'm not sure that Liara herself (if she was real, that is) would object much to be seen as a sexual -ahem- person or should I say Asari?

[T764]

RPGamer13's comment above got me thinking, Who is the target audience for this?
I don't see it being an Otaku, we've got other anime statues to buy.
It seems like most Mass Effect fans will ignore it.
Which really just leaves the casual shopper, fans of collectables, those newer to anime and the fans of both Mass Effect and anime, i don't really see any of them being enamoured by an alien chick squishing her boobs.

aries1001 wrote...

Aren't anime or manga famous for their focus on -ahem- breasts (big) and eyes (also big and innocent)?
This might explain it.

It depends on the artist, the genre and the age of a particular piece of work, it also depends alot on the character.
Like "hyperactive ott combat" it's just another broad generalisation.

Modifié par T764, 08 septembre 2011 - 05:49 .

[REgentleman]

@nobody in particular: IMO everybody is entitled to have problems with the statue, but we have to remember that, as has been said, this is basically fanart that Bioware's given the thumbs-up to sell for profit. This is the way somebody sees Liara, somebody who has no influence on how she actually appears in-universe. One might as well complain about all fanart that isn't totally faithful to the source material, which may be a valid position to try to take, but serendipity help you if you think you can influence people to not make fanart. Just sayin so we're all on the same page here.


On the statue itself: I think it's a bit odd, and the pushed-up cleavage got my attention, certainly, but I'd hardly call it hyper-sexualized (partly because I've seen some of that in my time ;p). I think the proposed subject of anime sexualizing children/childlike attributes is a rather hazy subject with some truth and sensationalism mixed up together, but I really don't think this statue itself makes Liara look that baby-faced. I've seen both east-Asian and Caucasian women in their twenties and beyond (including my early-thirty-something white sister) whose faces are similarly small and round.

Basically, I see little cause for alarm myself, and hope I'll get to see more well-made ME fanart come around. (I hope we can at least agree the statue appears well-made, yeah?)

[Lenimph]

TENTACLES!

[Chris Priestly]

Sorry JB, this is general discussion.

[James197]

Chris Priestly wrote...

If we had asked famous artists like Salvador Dali, Annie Liebovitz and Robert Crumb to create their interpretation of Liara (or any ME character) I doubt they would be the same. And I know not everyone would like what they each came up with, beacuase different people have different interpretations of what "art" is. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that. And, as with all works of art, if you do not like it, do not support it, view it, buy it, etc.

I wouldn't mind seeing Dali's interpretation of Liara, that would be... interesting! 

[nitefyre410]

aries1001 wrote...

Aren't anime or manga famous for their focus on -ahem- breasts (big) and eyes (also big and innocent)?
This might explain it.

However, I have another problem with this figurine of Liara. It seems to me that is has been said or told (by the devs) that the most important thing in Asari mating are the tentacles.....you know, the blue things in top of their heads.

Why then make statue or figurine where the focus lies on the breasts as it would do for humans? Also, I'm not sure that Liara herself (if she was real, that is) would object much to be seen as a sexual -ahem- person or should I say Asari?

 

It depends on the Artist and the  Character - the eyes are not  always big to show innocence . The eyes are used as the main way of expressing emotion in a meduim that has  very static faces. Animation does not the mimic the subtely of  facail expression very well-  so the eyes are use to show all sorts of emotions.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 08 septembre 2011 - 05:54 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Not really into that sort of thing. Then again, this isn't really that mainstream. If anything, a more natural, realistic model (like the Halo toys from McFarlane) would sell better. This is just Bioware throwing a bone to the anime/bushoujo clique.

Not something to get exasperated about. At least, it shouldn't be.

[Zjarcal]

REgentleman wrote...

One might as well complain about all fanart that isn't totally faithful to the source material, which may be a valid position to try to take, but serendipity help you if you think you can influence people to not make fanart. Just sayin so we're all on the same page here.

Indeed. Probably half of the fanart out there commits the same "crimes" this statue does.

The main issue is that since this statue is Bioware endorsed, I guess that makes people upset in the sense that BW is endorsing a piece of art that isn't very true to its source material. If it weren't BW endorsed, this wouldn't be an issue at all.

For the record I don't care about this.

[Jonathan Shepard]

Ohgodwhypleaseno.

[T764]

Lenimph wrote...

TENTACLES!

Great idea, a GIGA Pulse produced Hanar/Asari statue.
If easily offended DO NOT go looking them up, if you do don't come back and complain.  

[Dean_the_Young]

MELTOR13 wrote...

This guy makes "anime'd" renditions of characters. Anime females are usually oversexualized (oversized breasts, skimpy/revealing clothing, etc. etc.)

This isn't anything out of the ordinary.

Frankly I couldn't tell the difference from the comics.

Liara, the love interest of a race of blue space lesbians, sexualized? Perish the thought.

[Sunnie]

Chris Priestly wrote...

While I appreciate your enjoyment of our characters... "emotional trauma"? Seriously? I would suggest you are over exaggerating this (or I hope so anyways).

Different artists, sculptors, musicians, etc have different takes on the piece of art they are working on (no matter the medium). Just because Todd Macfarlane draws Batman in one way and Gil Kane draws him another doesn't make one or the otehr better or more iconic. And just because Wonder Woman is drawn more voluptous by one artist, and less so by another doesn't make one or the other canon or better or insulting or whatever. They are different interpretations.

If we had asked famous artists like Salvador Dali, Annie Liebovitz and Robert Crumb to create their interpretation of Liara (or any ME character) I doubt they would be the same. And I know not everyone would like what they each came up with, beacuase different people have different interpretations of what "art" is. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that. And, as with all works of art, if you do not like it, do not support it, view it, buy it, etc.

While I can appreciate and agree with much of what you said here, I don't think people are really understanding why there has been so much hate over this prototype statue.

My feelings are this: I've been waiting for soooo long for some really cool Liara art or statue, that when it finally gets here it's nothing like Liara. As I have stated in other threads, I can look past the bazooka boobs, gigantic hips and pencil sized waist, but tha face on this statue is NOT Liara. It deosn't even look remotely like Liara. So I believe that a lot of us have been waiting for years for something like this and we are disappointed because this is the only opportunity we will get to buy a Liara statue and it's really NOT Liara.

[FERMi27]

I'd definitely hit that ****.