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[Omega4RelayResident]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Well, I think there are two problems with the idea. One, it's never hinted at by any primary source that Liara melded with Shepard's brain or nervous system in between games. Second, it's never suggested by any primary source that asari can "keep a copy" of an individual they've melded with. All they really do is use their partner's DNA as a key to randomize the genetic traits of their offspring.

That said, I think there is more to the Lazarus project than was presented in ME2 and I suspect it will be a major revelation in ME3.

That one asari lady recorded that message,maybe Liara can "record" a memory, but that is very farfetched... I shouldn't have even said it.

Shialla on Feros does give Shep the portion of the cypher by melding with him. OP may have a point. A very unlikely MAY but a possible MAY none the less. This is pushing the bounds of what I can believe though.

However BioWare would never reveal that anyway because it deals with Necrophelia... thats a can of worms they dont want to open.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:29 .

[Callidus Thorn]

stysiaq wrote...

My guess is: who the hell cares, nobody gave it a thought at BioWare, so why wor our brains out to solve plotholes.

This. I doubt Shepards death was anything more than a way to get him working with Cerberus, so they didn't bother thinking up a story to go with it. All we know is that the body was recovered and that Cerberus spent a vast amount to bring him back, if there actually was a story behind the resurrection, at some point someone Shepard bumps into would ask "How did they bring you back?"

This is the only reason I can think of why we aren't told about the how of Shepards resurrection, they just thought it would make a cool start to the game.

[Arkitekt]

The biggest technical hurdle in there is the degeneration of the brain that starts immediately once it doesn't get fed oxygen. There are, however, many "possible" ways to prevent this, such as having him frozen in the planet (ice caps?), or being retrieved in less than a day (and then stored in a very conservational technique that we can't even imagine).

Thing is, Bioware didn't explain it to us, nor should anyone care about that problem too much. The fact that some nitpickers like to point it as evidence of bad writing by Bioware should merely be seen as evidence of the existence of obsessive compulsive behaviors within the human species.

[marshalleck]

Arkitekt wrote...

The biggest technical hurdle in there is the degeneration of the brain that starts immediately once it doesn't get fed oxygen. There are, however, many "possible" ways to prevent this, such as having him frozen in the planet (ice caps?), or being retrieved in less than a day (and then stored in a very conservational technique that we can't even imagine).

Thing is, Bioware didn't explain it to us, nor should anyone care about that problem too much. The fact that some nitpickers like to point it as evidence of bad writing by Bioware should merely be seen as evidence of the existence of obsessive compulsive behaviors within the human species.

That's simply making excuses for poor writing. Any contrivance which has to be made to make your plot work, and which must be subsequently hand-waved by yourself and the audience for becoming too complicated or out of step with the rest of the narrative is basically by definition, poor writing. It's not merely evidence of such, it's a textbook example. 

It could be salvaged in ME3 though, if the writers decide to do something with it.

Modifié par marshalleck, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:35 .

[JamieCOTC]

Callidus Thorn wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

My guess is: who the hell cares, nobody gave it a thought at BioWare, so why wor our brains out to solve plotholes.

This. I doubt Shepards death was anything more than a way to get him working with Cerberus, so they didn't bother thinking up a story to go with it. All we know is that the body was recovered and that Cerberus spent a vast amount to bring him back, if there actually was a story behind the resurrection, at some point someone Shepard bumps into would ask "How did they bring you back?"

This is the only reason I can think of why we aren't told about the how of Shepards resurrection, they just thought it would make a cool start to the game.

I suspect you are right, however ...

"Our goal is to leave no strings dangling... And yes, I believe I've reviewed the odd detail about said Lazarus project." - Mac Walters
https://twitter.com/...203535064498176

[Whereto]

Bioware could of saved themselves a lot of fan heart arch if they made shep get into a escape pod just in time and go into stasis just before he or she dies. Would of saved so much of this fill the gap yourself stuff.

[Arkitekt]

marshalleck wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

The biggest technical hurdle in there is the degeneration of the brain that starts immediately once it doesn't get fed oxygen. There are, however, many "possible" ways to prevent this, such as having him frozen in the planet (ice caps?), or being retrieved in less than a day (and then stored in a very conservational technique that we can't even imagine).

Thing is, Bioware didn't explain it to us, nor should anyone care about that problem too much. The fact that some nitpickers like to point it as evidence of bad writing by Bioware should merely be seen as evidence of the existence of obsessive compulsive behaviors within the human species.

That's simply making excuses for poor writing. Any contrivance which has to be made to make your plot work, and which must be subsequently hand-waved by yourself and the audience for becoming too complicated or out of step with the rest of the narrative is basically by definition, poor writing. It's not merely evidence of such, it's a textbook example.

I see a lot of this around here, and I see no argument on why it is so. People are obsessed with "explanations" and if they aren't spoonfed one, they cry "BAD WRITING!". It's not about being "too complicated" or "out of step", it's because it is unimportant how exactly he "survived", just as it is unimportant what exactly "red matter" is composed of.

It could be salvaged in ME3 though, if the writers decide to do something with it.

God I hope not. It's a completely unimportant subject and to have it retconexplained just for some obsessed people sleep better at night is really just mind blowingly stupid.

[JamieCOTC]

Arkitekt wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

The biggest technical hurdle in there is the degeneration of the brain that starts immediately once it doesn't get fed oxygen. There are, however, many "possible" ways to prevent this, such as having him frozen in the planet (ice caps?), or being retrieved in less than a day (and then stored in a very conservational technique that we can't even imagine).

Thing is, Bioware didn't explain it to us, nor should anyone care about that problem too much. The fact that some nitpickers like to point it as evidence of bad writing by Bioware should merely be seen as evidence of the existence of obsessive compulsive behaviors within the human species.

That's simply making excuses for poor writing. Any contrivance which has to be made to make your plot work, and which must be subsequently hand-waved by yourself and the audience for becoming too complicated or out of step with the rest of the narrative is basically by definition, poor writing. It's not merely evidence of such, it's a textbook example.

I see a lot of this around here, and I see no argument on why it is so. People are obsessed with "explanations" and if they aren't spoonfed one, they cry "BAD WRITING!". It's not about being "too complicated" or "out of step", it's because it is unimportant how exactly he "survived", just as it is unimportant what exactly "red matter" is composed of.

It could be salvaged in ME3 though, if the writers decide to do something with it.

God I hope not. It's a completely unimportant subject and to have it retconexplained just for some obsessed people sleep better at night is really just mind blowingly stupid.

They will be tackling the Lazarus Project in ME3.  See my post above. 

[Arkitekt]

Catering to all the fans to the bitter end... I hope they don't stretch themselves out too thin on that enterprise...

[krzimmer]

So your saying that Liara created a "backup," essentially, of Shepard's mind, and then she downloaded it back into Shepard's new brain?   Sounds a little far-fetched to me.

I'm sure Bioware will come up with an eloquent explanation.

[Wynne]

marshalleck wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

There are, however, many "possible" ways to prevent this, such as having him frozen in the planet (ice caps?),

That's simply making excuses for poor writing. Any contrivance which has to be made to make your plot work, and which must be subsequently hand-waved by yourself and the audience for becoming too complicated or out of step with the rest of the narrative is basically by definition, poor writing. It's not merely evidence of such, it's a textbook example.

...but what about that part where Alchera when you land is essentially a frozen wasteland? Doesn't that essentially mean Shepard was frozen? Since you, y'know, find the wreck of the Normandy there? It's at least heavily implied that you were frozen, and I don't really see that as a contrivance or a fan explanation.

Alchera's surface temp is -22C, and its crust is composed of carbon and water ice. I think we can safely say that Shepard was not decomposing in the summer heat or anything.

Modifié par Wynne, 09 septembre 2011 - 06:48 .

[Iakus]

Wynne wrote....

Alchera's surface temp is -22C, and its crust is composed of carbon and water ice. I think we can safely say that Shepard was not decomposing in the summer heat or anything.

True, although the atmosphere is ammonia and methane, not the best chemicals to expose to tissue 

Plus subzero temperatures would cause the water in Shepard's cells to expand, causing the cells themselves to burst.  

[RyuujinZERO]

"It's magic!"

(But in seriousness, shepard's helmet seemed to have survived the fall and re-entry, the interior of meteorites tend to remain cold for the same reason that shepard's head didn't get cooked presumably. The planet he landed on would've had no bacteria or organisms to consume the corpse, and the deep cold would've prevented enzyme and terrestrial organisms doing the damage.

Which just leaves the issue of frost burns - which, would've caused irreperable damage in reality, but in a world where cryogenics is "real", we might as well hand-wave it, it's less far fetched than rebuilding a corpse that has BEEN SPACED AND FALLEN INTO A PLANETS ATMOSPHERE

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 09 septembre 2011 - 07:33 .

[Wynne]

We don't know the exact capabilities of Shepard's suit, though; even ruptured it could've provided some sort of protection. Either way, I'm assuming that that's where the fiction part of the science fiction comes in. I don't need a perfect explanation--it is the future, after all. There's no way to do more but speculate on what science will be able to accomplish. Clarke's third law and all that.

So yeah, it is magic, sort of.

Modifié par Wynne, 09 septembre 2011 - 07:35 .

[slimgrin]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

It wouldn't surprise me if it ultimately turns out that Shepard has been Graybox'd at one point or another, as an explanation as to why he 'retained' all his memories.

I doubt it. This is another example of the fans thinking deeper than the writers.

[Wynne]

Unless it is an example of the fans picking up on what the writers were thinking.

[AlexXIV]

2 things

First, it is just a game. If people want to believe that it is the same Shepard, they are welcome. If they want to believe it is a different Shepard, they are also.

Second, brain cells die. Even if you are not dead (that's why we forget things). People change, even if they don't have near death experience or whatsoever.

So whether it is the same Shepard or a different doesn't really matter, since (assumed it was a real world) people will only remember one Shepard anyway. So for history lessons in the future there will only be one Shepard. Well one Shepard who was the first human Specter, savior of the Citadel and probably savior of the whole galaxy from the Reaper threat ... and probably many more things. I guess some people would even doubt that Shepard was ever really dead. The only people who could confirm it would probably be Liara, Joker, the Shadowbroker, Jacob, Miranda and a couple of people at Cerberus. And I doubt any of them have even any real evidence.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 09 septembre 2011 - 07:56 .

[Nizzemancer]

Uhm...Shepards body was extremely badly damaged, nowhere does the story imply that the brain was destroyed, Cerberus rebuild Sheps body from something that wouldn't be able to survive using normal medical science. The death of shepard is just a game mechanic to reset our skills stop overthinking things.

[Annata]

The ego or consciousness is basically the configuration of a working neural network. Given the configuration wasn't destroyed, revitalizing the neurons, would indeed restore the personality.

[RyuujinZERO]

BTW I was curious about a little detail. Looking up Alchera's data, it has surface pressure of 0.85 atmospheres, 0.82 earth masses.

That means that terminal velocity for a falling human body on that planet will be about the same as it is on earth (Around 120mph); the gravity is weaker but the atmosphere is thinner by about the same amount reducing friction. Just a relevant detail for the theorists

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 09 septembre 2011 - 08:27 .

[Dragoonlordz]

He/she doesn't have one hence the reason I'm the one telling him or her to move left, right up or down plus what to say and what to do.

[The Interloper]

I doubt it.

Han Shot First wrote...
It's just one of those things you shouldn't devote too much thought to, accept that a wizard did it, and move on

Unless you're a member of Smudboy and co, in which case you make it your obsession.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

The squad seemed to have different views on Shep's death.

Joker, Garrus, Tali, Thane - Shep died
Zaeed - Shep survived through force of will and anger
Cheerleader - It was an "accident", I didn't hear her say "died/death" but I guess she was just being tactful
Jacob - "meat and tubes, anywhere else they'll put you in the coffin" I guess that's not dead to him
Samara, Kasumi - no views on this
Dr Chakwas - "I watched the Normandy crumble with you onboard" and nary a line from her nor Shep on medical records, what's in them which is almighty weird since Shep ought to want to know

TIM - "we bring you back", " some say what we did to you..." I guess Shep's dead to him

Dead or not dead. I guess it's up to the player.   There are plenty of lacks but since this is a video game, can't ask too much of it.

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 10 septembre 2011 - 02:12 .

[Sisterofshane]

iakus wrote...

Wynne wrote....

Alchera's surface temp is -22C, and its crust is composed of carbon and water ice. I think we can safely say that Shepard was not decomposing in the summer heat or anything.

True, although the atmosphere is ammonia and methane, not the best chemicals to expose to tissue 

Plus subzero temperatures would cause the water in Shepard's cells to expand, causing the cells themselves to burst.  

^If and only if Shep's body was frozen slowly over time.  If it was cold enough to flash freeze (the way many vegetables are frozen), then the cellular structure would have recieved very little to no damage from the freezing process.  And at that point, whatever gases make up the air wouldn't matter much, as the cells would no longer be decomposing, or reacting with anything and breaking down.

[didymos1120]

Sisterofshane wrote...

^If and only if Shep's body was frozen slowly over time.  If it was cold enough to flash freeze (the way many vegetables are frozen), then the cellular structure would have recieved very little to no damage from the freezing process.  And at that point, whatever gases make up the air wouldn't matter much, as the cells would no longer be decomposing, or reacting with anything and breaking down.

Decomposition would be minimal anyway simply to the extremely low temperatures, which would severely affect reaction rates.