80 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

Wynne wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

There are, however, many "possible" ways to prevent this, such as having him frozen in the planet (ice caps?),

That's simply making excuses for poor writing. Any contrivance which has to be made to make your plot work, and which must be subsequently hand-waved by yourself and the audience for becoming too complicated or out of step with the rest of the narrative is basically by definition, poor writing. It's not merely evidence of such, it's a textbook example.

...but what about that part where Alchera when you land is essentially a frozen wasteland? Doesn't that essentially mean Shepard was frozen? Since you, y'know, find the wreck of the Normandy there? It's at least heavily implied that you were frozen, and I don't really see that as a contrivance or a fan explanation.

Alchera's surface temp is -22C, and its crust is composed of carbon and water ice. I think we can safely say that Shepard was not decomposing in the summer heat or anything.

That's all well and good, but you know what? It would be even better had any character in the game made mention of it. Instead we get:

Shepard: "Hey Miranda, what's going on here? Was I dead? In a coma? What did you do to me?"
Miranda: "Oh that's not a very interesting question, here look at my ass."

Modifié par marshalleck, 10 septembre 2011 - 02:52 .

[Iakus]

Sisterofshane wrote...

iakus wrote...

Wynne wrote....

Alchera's surface temp is -22C, and its crust is composed of carbon and water ice. I think we can safely say that Shepard was not decomposing in the summer heat or anything.

True, although the atmosphere is ammonia and methane, not the best chemicals to expose to tissue 

Plus subzero temperatures would cause the water in Shepard's cells to expand, causing the cells themselves to burst.  

^If and only if Shep's body was frozen slowly over time.  If it was cold enough to flash freeze (the way many vegetables are frozen), then the cellular structure would have recieved very little to no damage from the freezing process.  And at that point, whatever gases make up the air wouldn't matter much, as the cells would no longer be decomposing, or reacting with anything and breaking down.

I don't know if -22C is cold enough for that, but I do know that Miranda's logs cited "prolonged vacuum exposure and subzero temperatures"  to leaving the body in worse condition than they feared.

[Iakus]

marshalleck wrote...
That's all well and good, but you know what? It would be even better had any character in the game made mention of it. Instead we get:

Shepard: "Hey Miranda, what's going on here? Was I dead? In a coma? What did you do to me?"
Miranda: "Oh that's not a very interesting question, here look at my ass."

Sad but true

[The Interloper]

marshalleck wrote...
 That's all well and good, but you know what? It would be even better had any character in the game made mention of it."

Exposition is nice.

It is not necessary when we have enough clues to figure out how it happened on our own.

Is it bad writing? I guess, and this case is one of ME2's more obvious ones. Is it bad enough for you to care? Only if you want every single thing to line up. In which case, the number of works you enjoy should be very small. And none of them will be superhero comic franchises.

Since the issues with the death and resurrection go away entirely with one or two quick lines of clarifying dialogue-in short we just need to be briefly told, not shown-then it isn't a major problem. Just careless.

Not sure if you thought it was a major issue or not. Just saying.

[JBONE27]

marshalleck wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

Perhaps it has something to do with the space suite. It does record thing, maybe it has an imprinting feature like in Doctor Who (Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead).  

That episode was both intensely creepy and incredibly sad all at once.

I know, I loved it.   Stephan Moffat rules.

[Psychoeva02]

Perhaps one of the required cybernetic implants of alliance soldiers is a brain casing which can preserve the brain upon death.

[Ryoko]

Shepard's brain on drugs=

[jshowatts]

Shepard's brain runs on Badass juice, and he's always full.

[Computer_God91]

 I figure if we can reverse engineer the human brain and make a genetically perfect human (Miranda) from one parent, we can bring a human back from the dead exactly as they were. Truly in these kinds of situations only the original Shepard would know if he is the real deal. A copy would think so but only the first one would know. It's like if you died and came back, you'd know if you were you because you'd be who you are, the same consciousness. It would be impossible to prove to anybody else though however because even a copy would still insist it was you.

[InvincibleHero]

Well what if Shepard turns out to be a clone to begin with and they kept mental imprints every so often and the only reasons they would reconstruct Shepard is because of the cipher. That is the only thing that makes Shepard special after all. Shepard seems to be superhuman compared to the rest of humanity and we know he's been genetically enhanced. He may even have prothean DNA or reaper DNA for all we know and that is why he could interface with the beacons. Maybe the Mars cache resulted in Shepard: half reaper or half prothean along with human genetics.

I don't think Shep is a clone and hope that is not the case, but that seems one way they might go.

[DarthSliver]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Well what if Shepard turns out to be a clone to begin with and they kept mental imprints every so often and the only reasons they would reconstruct Shepard is because of the cipher. That is the only thing that makes Shepard special after all. Shepard seems to be superhuman compared to the rest of humanity and we know he's been genetically enhanced. He may even have prothean DNA or reaper DNA for all we know and that is why he could interface with the beacons. Maybe the Mars cache resulted in Shepard: half reaper or half prothean along with human genetics.

I don't think Shep is a clone and hope that is not the case, but that seems one way they might go.

Actually they made it quite clear that Shepard wasnt a clone.

[InvincibleHero]

DarthSliver wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Well what if Shepard turns out to be a clone to begin with and they kept mental imprints every so often and the only reasons they would reconstruct Shepard is because of the cipher. That is the only thing that makes Shepard special after all. Shepard seems to be superhuman compared to the rest of humanity and we know he's been genetically enhanced. He may even have prothean DNA or reaper DNA for all we know and that is why he could interface with the beacons. Maybe the Mars cache resulted in Shepard: half reaper or half prothean along with human genetics.

I don't think Shep is a clone and hope that is not the case, but that seems one way they might go.

Actually they made it quite clear that Shepard wasnt a clone.

That depends how much faith you have in the truthfulness of the Illusive Man. Miranda would only disclose what he wanted to be known to Shepard. If they said yeah we cloned you what would Shepard's reaction have been? However, that still would not be an untruth if they reconstricted the Shepard clone that already was extant.  Cerberus did not clone him after all in that case.

Modifié par InvincibleHero, 14 septembre 2011 - 07:41 .

[TuringPoint]

Interesting idea (believable too) that she could've helped with this process. Perhaps filled in missing 'links'.  I don't think melding would be able to restore personalities in whole.

However, Liara was busy with other things for those two years. She was surprised when Shepard turned up.

In any case, Shepard's brain wasn't disintegrated. We see his head as intact, at the very least.

The scars on Shepard rule out the all-out clone idea.  Parts of his body were likely replaced using cloning technology.

Part of why this whole resurrection thing is effective is that it's a more or less impossible sort of technology that leaves out details so as not to make any part of it too glaringly un-scientific to be impossible for a very advanced and experimental level of technology.

Modifié par Alocormin, 14 septembre 2011 - 08:43 .

[didymos1120]

InvincibleHero wrote...

That depends how much faith you have in the truthfulness of the Illusive Man.

No, because most of your info about it didn't come from TIM, but Wilson and Miranda's logs on Lazarus Station. 

[Inutaisho7996]

didymos1120 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

That depends how much faith you have in the truthfulness of the Illusive Man.

No, because most of your info about it didn't come from TIM, but Wilson and Miranda's logs on Lazarus Station. 

Wilson tried to kill you, and Miranda is the Illusive Man's very loyal lackey. How much can we trust them?

[Evilatem]

If ever there's a question in scifi, just sing the MST3K theme song to yourself.

[didymos1120]

Inutaisho7996 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

That depends how much faith you have in the truthfulness of the Illusive Man.

No, because most of your info about it didn't come from TIM, but Wilson and Miranda's logs on Lazarus Station. 

Wilson tried to kill you, and Miranda is the Illusive Man's very loyal lackey. How much can we trust them?

What, you think they recorded deceptive log entries just on the off chance Shepard happened to listen to them while cruising about the station during a security mech onslaught? 

[SkittlesKat96]

marshalleck wrote...

Well, I think there are two problems with the idea. One, it's never hinted at by any primary source that Liara melded with Shepard's brain or nervous system in between games. Even Liara seems to think once Cerberus got a hold of Shepard's remains, her involvement was over. Second, it's never suggested by any primary source that asari can "keep a copy" of an individual they've melded with. All they really do is use their partner's DNA as a key to influence and rearrange the genetic traits of their offspring.

That said, I think there is more to the Lazarus project than was presented in ME2 and I suspect it will be a major revelation in ME3.

Marshalleck is right here, I think it is an interesting idea but for it work in ME 3 I think they would have had to put more emphasis on it in the first place, its just the way plots/plot devices work, just doesn't feel right that suddenly in ME 3 Liara would just mention it out of the blue and it would instantly become a big deal...or something.

Also speaking of Shepard after ME 2, I'm personally interested to found out why the Reapers and Collectors want Shepard as a Reaper sleeper agent/Saren 2.0 so bad, or maybe they wanted Shepard for some other reason?

[lovgreno]

Considering that Liara is a bit of a Shepard fangirl she may have the real Shepard hidden in a fridge... The one we played in ME2 was just the brainchip controlled Cerberus clone made from the blueprints in Liaras head.

Nah, that would be a too silly plot even for a space opera like this. Right? Right?!

[marstor05]

Maybe shep is a clone. All the other cerberus badguys in Me3 are shep clones as well - but indoctrinated?

[Phategod1]

ADLegend21 wrote...

 I've seen on the board how some people say "Shepard isn't really Shepard in ME2 the brain doesn't just pop back to life" and other such things. well I thoght of a theory of how they got Shepard back to being Shepard mentally. We all know Liara is the one who gave Shepard's bdy to Cerberus after taking it from teh Shadow broker so she knew Shepard was coming back to life. Well when Shepard's brain was inact enough I think she melded with that brain to put everything she had from Shepard's consciousness back into his/her brain. She melds with Shepard twice (three times if Romanced) so she should have enough of Shepard's mind in her to put them back to the way they were if Cerberus couldn't resture Shepard's memory. Makes sense to me that she had some part in Lazarus than just providing the body ESPECIALLY if she's romanced.

(with out reading responses) No she did not know Cerberus was bringing Shep back to life, and there is no mention of a reverse mindmelding with a corpse.

[didymos1120]

Phategod1 wrote...

(with out reading responses) No she did not know Cerberus was bringing Shep back to life, and there is no mention of a reverse mindmelding with a corpse.

Uh, yeah, she did know.  Read Redemption.  Or, you know, talk to her and have her tell you herself.

[lovgreno]

marstor05 wrote...

Maybe shep is a clone. All the other cerberus badguys in Me3 are shep clones as well - but indoctrinated?

Indoctrinated reaper tech dark matter ninja clones.

[DarthSliver]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Well, I think there are two problems with the idea. One, it's never hinted at by any primary source that Liara melded with Shepard's brain or nervous system in between games. Even Liara seems to think once Cerberus got a hold of Shepard's remains, her involvement was over. Second, it's never suggested by any primary source that asari can "keep a copy" of an individual they've melded with. All they really do is use their partner's DNA as a key to influence and rearrange the genetic traits of their offspring.

That said, I think there is more to the Lazarus project than was presented in ME2 and I suspect it will be a major revelation in ME3.

Marshalleck is right here, I think it is an interesting idea but for it work in ME 3 I think they would have had to put more emphasis on it in the first place, its just the way plots/plot devices work, just doesn't feel right that suddenly in ME 3 Liara would just mention it out of the blue and it would instantly become a big deal...or something.

Also speaking of Shepard after ME 2, I'm personally interested to found out why the Reapers and Collectors want Shepard as a Reaper sleeper agent/Saren 2.0 so bad, or maybe they wanted Shepard for some other reason?

Could this by chance be related to why Cerberus is after Shepard?  Reapers wanting him to become a Reaper Avatar and the Truth behind Lazarus Project.

I always have this funny feeling that Cerberus isnt indorcinated but Shepard just assumes they are because he thought him and The Illusive Man were on good terms or something like that. 

[YouthCultureForever]

Could this by chance be related to why Cerberus is after Shepard?  Reapers wanting him to become a Reaper Avatar and the Truth behind Lazarus Project.

I think thats it exactly. Shepard probably has Reaper tech inside him. The Reapers are the only ones with the "magical" technology. They can convert organics to synthetics. They use Indoctrination, essentially mind control. 

EDI was made using Reaper tech so we know Cerberus has Reaper tech in ME2. And they never say whats was used to resurrect Shepard. A cybernetic override on Shep and the Reapers are in control. Its as good a theory as any.

And Harbinger also talks about humans saying that to be truely be useful, they need to be stablized emotionally.
Harbinger quotes - 

The tech stablizes Shep's emotions and turns him into a more useful tool.

Modifié par YouthCultureForever, 14 septembre 2011 - 07:34 .