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[Queensilverwing]

Kail Wrote:
Perhaps. One creates a fictional scenario one wants to believe in because it's more comforting and chooses to ignore and avoid as much as possible thinking about the real one... but if the individual and his thoughts (more o rless conscious) are taken as a whole one is aware of what one is doing... that is, you are aware you are actually avoiding to think about the consequences of your unhealthy habit, so you are not really deceiving yourself. You are just being a ******, if you allow me to say it

If you're just using the above theory for habits such as smoking, drinking, other drug use; then yeah, at some point one has to face the reality of our actions. ...At some point, but not everyone has the strength or will to change, while others do.

Ya know, I think I'm going to go with what I started with originally in this thread about self-deception. Here is an example:

For a week I've had a horrid toothache, after grinding my teeth in my sleep two nights ago, I decided I'd had enough and was going to take a very strong pain killer. It was great! I had no pain...down side? I conked out for 4 hours and when I awoke I found my hubby drawing the curtains in the bedroom. I was completely dazed by the effects of this drug, and I remember asking if it was today or tomorrow.

An hour later I crawled out of bed and looked at my husband...

"Why did you growl at me that way and tell me to go back to sleep?" I asked. My husband looked completely confused and replied...

"I didn't. You asked what time it was and I closed the curtains"

Now, I can still swear that he grumped, but at the same time I knew that would have totally out of character for him. yet I still see/hear him doing it. Why? Perhaps I was subconsciously feeling guilty because I'd fallen asleep in the middle of the day and he'd fed and put the kids to sleep by the time I managed to drag my arse out'a bed. TBH, I have no idea, but something made me believe that he HAD been grumpy with me...and my own guilt did that just fine. it was and still is, as real to me now as it was last night.

He never did it, it never happened...I've deceived myself subconsciously and had absolutely no control over it...or prior knowledge.

That is just an example...and without going into past history, I can say that from experience that there have been times in my life where everybody else reality has had no bearing on my own. Through no direct fault of my own. Sometimes the mind deceives as a means of protection, it shuts down in many ways and on many levels. We don't always know what we are doing is wrong, that would take a huge amount of self analysis...something the mind simply won't allow at that point in time.

[WebShaman]

No, you did not "deceive" yourself - you were not in a state of knowing and not knowing at the same time.

There are two different scenarios here :

Your brain was affected by a drug, and was groggy with body chemicals that induce sleep. That means that signal input to the senses is not always organized correctly.

So, either your brain "recorded" stimuli incorrectly, leading to you actually believing (based on what your brain has put together) that your hubby growled at you.

OR

He actually did, and is denying it (for whatever reason - probably to avoid conflict).

In this situation, you are just not sure of the actual events as they happened (much like a blackout when one drinks to much, etc). You can try to go back and "rebuild" things, and base the "holes" on behavior, etc that would be expected in such a situation.

But it is not the same as actually knowing what happened (re: when your mind is lucid and recording things properly).

You did not deceive yourself.

[Queensilverwing]

*Rubs chin thoughtfully*

I was actually discussing this with hubby during a few minutes of peace where the kids were otherwise occupied.

The thing is, now with a clear head, I know he never growled.

(1) it is completely out of character
(2) he's not a man to lie or evade with me, or anyone else.

I understand that I felt guilty for conking out. There is no reason to feel guilty, but part of that is me thinking I should be able to cope with a stupid toothache and painkiller. Pfft, silly pride on my part.

But, I still remember the whole scenario...my mind is telling me that is how it happened, even if another part of my mind (the reasoning/logical part) is telling me I know why I hallucinated the whole thing. It's like the hallucination will not let go, even though it's been found out by the clear reasoning mind.

I have deceived myself - even though I know that the picture my mind wants me to think of as truth is wrong. The drug messed my head up, and so it keeps it as a real memory.

As my hubby said " If I had done something like that, you have told me to F**k off in no uncertain terms!" *Grins, which is the truth...I am a VERY bad dragon at the moment of waking up...words slip from my mouth that would not do at any other time

[WebShaman]

No, you haven't. Because you *know* that he didn't growl at you. You state so.

You are aware that he didn't, even though you stubbornly insist that he did. Even though he did not.

In other words, you do not wish to embrace reality. Because it does not coincide with what *you* would like it to be. Regardless of reason (guilt, etc).

Are you seriously stating that you do not know here? And know? I mean...think about it, my dragon friend.

You do know where such leads...I hope.

[Queensilverwing]

WebShaman wrote...

No, you haven't. Because you *know* that he didn't growl at you. You state so.

You are aware that he didn't, even though you stubbornly insist that he did. Even though he did not.

In other words, you do not wish to embrace reality. Because it does not coincide with what *you* would like it to be. Regardless of reason (guilt, etc).

Are you seriously stating that you do not know here? And know? I mean...think about it, my dragon friend.

*Shakes head* pfft, it is SO hard sometimes to write what I mean. OK, I *Know* it didn't happen, I accept that. I *know* that my brain has created a false memory....all I'm trying to say is that just because it's false, does not make it any less a memory. If I didn't have the kind of fantastic relasionship with my husband (after 29 years I'd better have!), I could be fooled into thinking such a false memory was true. It's not even like growling at someone is a bad thing, *that* is why it is so darn silly!

You do know where such leads...I hope.

Oh on this I'm not confused at all...been there, done that.

[Bannor Bloodfist]

/me mumbles quietly under his breath "dat grumpy old silber bag of...making me, ME, haul all dese der barrels of ratnibbles 'round here for her...."

Oh, Hiya Lady Silberwing... I has a whole bunch of ratzsz stored up for you to nibble on. Some hab dem erb dingys, dose green leafy bits you like, and odurs hab nice hotz sauces

[Queensilverwing]

*Flutters dragon lashes at Bannor and smirks*

Did you remember the pickled onions Orc face?

*Dives into the ala-rat-salad snout first*