649 réponses à ce sujet

[pfhorlorn]

I'll start this thread off with a universal statement: A great deal of any sentient species are of lesser intelligence. This is why we have an "average / normal" IQ. This is why there are geniuses, why there are the mentally defective, and why there are tons of other flavors of intellect between those two extremes on the spectrum.

Not all batarians are crooks. Not all are liars. The majority of batarians you meet in ME2 are mercenaries, of course. So are a lot of humans, turians, and vorcha -- at least those you can interact with, even if that interaction is shooting them.

I see a lot of posts saying very angry things (nigh zealous hatred) about a fictional race from a fictional world. I see people write things like "I'd enjoy blinding one of 'em... one eye at a time," "they're a worthless race with four of everything and they're all evil and we should kill them," and so on. Some proclaim that batarians are maleficent and should all be dealt with severely because of their interactions with the player and other characters in the ME realm. That's sort of dumb, frankly. A lot of humans, at least in modern times, aren't very bright. Humanity, for priding ourselves on our ability to reason, isn't reasonable more than half of the time.

There's no reason to think that batarians are anything other than spacefaring near-humans who, like humans, have plenty of bad eggs. That doesn't mean, by any means, that batarians are completely rotten. I'm sure there are quite a few batarians out there who want nothing more than to live their lives like regular people: providing for a family, working, engaging in the traditional customs of their own culture.

We magnify the shortcomings of some batarians to the entire race, stereotyping them. We take the standpoints and arguments of the Batarian Hegemony as the last word for every single batarian. That's both illogical and impossible, unless they have some sort of Borgesque hivemind. I mean, we don't blame all humans for the failures of Cerberus and the Alliance. That'd be silly! And relating back to my Hegemony comment: I'm an American. I live in the United States. I don't support capitalistic healthcare, I don't support religion and business governing politics, and I think every adult should have the same right to marry, be healthy, and opt for public housing if he or she is struggling financially.

I don't support 100% of the actions of my government. Chances are, many of you don't, either.

So why, then, do we blame all batarians for the actions of mercenaries and the Hegemony?

Modifié par koopaonfire, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:21 .

[AdmiralCheez]

For the reasons you described in your above post, of course.  Some people are just derpy.

And, well, better to hate batarians than actual, real-life groups of people?  I'm racist against vampires, actually.  Hate 'em.  Doesn't matter if they're decent or aren't really walking dead or whatever.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:24 .

[pfhorlorn]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

For the reasons you described in your above post, of course.

Well, I get that. But I'd like to think that people who feel this way can justify it with something better than "their government sucks and so do a few of their people."

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And, well, better to hate batarians than actual, real-life groups of people?

That's another thing I don't understand, though. They're fictional. Why do people exemplify such fervent hate toward them?

Modifié par koopaonfire, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:26 .

[Zakatak757]

If the only Batarians I ever met were slavers, pirates, and mercs, I would hate them too. Hard to see both sides of a species if the other side is... err... unseen.

The majority of Batarians outside of their homeworlds are a nuisance.

[KotorEffect3]

It depends on how I roleplay my Shepard, most of my Shepards are paragons usualy with the spacer/war hero background so they don't "hate" all Batarians but they aren't too fond of them either. However whenever I do a renegade run (which isn't often) I often pick the colonist/ruthless background and those Shepards usualy despise Batarians (having your family slaughtered by Batarians will kind of do that)

[Takio]

Zakatak757 wrote...

If the only Batarians I ever met were slavers, pirates, and mercs, I would hate them too. Hard to see both sides of a species if the other side is... err... unseen.

The majority of Batarians outside of their homeworlds are a nuisance.

If all the humans I met were slavers, mercs, and pirates I'd hate them too. 

[Arkitekt]

What you are obviously forgetting is that it isn't the audience who "hates" batarians, it's the writers themselves who write a species where every single one batarian we meet is either a scoundrel or an ****. With this kind of statistics, blaming the audience is pretty damning by you.

[HogarthHughes 3]

Given that the Batarian Hegemony supports pirates/terrorists in their attacks against human colonies, (not to mention the institutionalized slavery) a human would have every reason to want to see their government die.   Of course that doesn't apply to each and every batarian, but eh people can be irrational.

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:40 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

Slavery.... look what the north did to the South during the Civil War... slavery is a good enough reason to hate anyone supporting it

[Zakatak757]

Takio wrote...

Zakatak757 wrote...

If the only Batarians I ever met were slavers, pirates, and mercs, I would hate them too. Hard to see both sides of a species if the other side is... err... unseen.

The majority of Batarians outside of their homeworlds are a nuisance.

If all the humans I met were slavers, mercs, and pirates I'd hate them too. 

Glad we can agree.

[KotorEffect3]

The only batarian I have met in the game that wasn't a total douchebag was the one in the markets running that shop. Even the ones on Mordin's recruitment were a-holes and only changed depending on how you interacted with them.

[armass]

They only hate them cause we have not yet seen a batarian squadmate, and thus another side of the coin from the usual batarian thug stereotype(except from some civilians in omega). They would hate, or at least dislike, the geth and the krogans also without Wrex and Legion.

Modifié par armass, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:41 .

[marshalleck]

It's pretty easy to understand, and the fact you don't understand it suggests you aren't paying attention.

Every single batarian we meet without exception is an **** to some degree. Whether it's merely greedy merchant or terrorist out to kill millions of people, they are all pricks. Bioware wants players to dislike batarians, otherwise they'd have given us a moderate-attitude batarian to interact with. The fact that every other species (vorcha somewhat excluded) is shown to have both saints and sinners amongst their ranks but batarians do not should be extremely telling about Bioware's intent.

The fact is, the hate is a result of most people being happy to be lead about by the nose and manipulated into certain thought patterns by even crude methods, such as what was done with batarians in ME.

Modifié par marshalleck, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:42 .

[AdmiralCheez]

koopaonfire wrote...

That's another thing I don't understand, though. They're fictional. Why do people exemplify such fervent hate toward them?

I suppose it's just part of getting lost in the fantasy.  Makes things more fun.

I really don't know why I hate vampires, though.  Maybe it has something to do with my fear of needles.  And the current pop culture obsession with them.  And how some people think living forever is so damn romantic.  And they're totally OP.  And dead is not sexy.  And th--yeeeaahhh gonna stop before I rant for three hours.

[Agamo45]

It's obvious why, they're terrorist bastards.

[Moonshadow_Dark]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

The only batarian I have met in the game that wasn't a total douchebag was the one in the markets running that shop. Even the ones on Mordin's recruitment were a-holes and only changed depending on how you interacted with them.

This. Every Batarian we've met besides the shop guy is a complete dillhole. We're not Transformers. Just because one guy likes us doesn't mean we'll love any Batarian we see who treats us like crap.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

koopaonfire wrote...

That's another thing I don't understand, though. They're fictional. Why do people exemplify such fervent hate toward them?

I suppose it's just part of getting lost in the fantasy.  Makes things more fun.

I really don't know why I hate vampires, though.  Maybe it has something to do with my fear of needles.  And the current pop culture obsession with them.  And how some people think living forever is so damn romantic.  And they're totally OP.  And dead is not sexy.  And th--yeeeaahhh gonna stop before I rant for three hours.

I like vampires for all those reasons. But I guess I like them most when they're subverted. I'm silly that way.

Also, Hello Cheez. I guess it's time for me to come back to the Mass Effect Boards again, eh?

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:44 .

[Zakatak757]

One of them called my Femshep a stripper >

[AdmiralCheez]

marshalleck wrote...

It's pretty to understand, and the fact you don't understand it suggests you aren't paying attention.

Every single batarian we meet without exception is an **** to some degree. Whether it's merely greedy merchant or terrorist out to kill millions of people, they are all pricks. Bioware wants players to dislike batarians, otherwise they'd have given us a moderate-attitude batarian to interact with. The fact that every other species (vorcha somewhat excluded) is shown to have both saints and sinners amongst their ranks but batarians do not should be extremely telling about Bioware's intent.

Not really.  A lot of the Blue Suns batarians were okay guys, and that one shopkeeper--Marsh?--was plenty decent.

They just tend to act like asses to humans because we were asses to them.  It's a viscous cycle.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I kind of see the Batarian - Human race hatred more fear based that "all Batarians hate Humans", and "all Humans hate Batarians". It's kind of like a lot of Americans I know think the Russian people hate Americans. Still a lot of Americans think Russia is still the USSR. The cold war ended decades ago. We could have become friends instead they were treated like dirt because they wouldn't become a puppet.

Same with the Batarians. It's all fear. On both sides. I've only seen Batarians and TIM smoke, so that means they're bad, right?

So I don't think Shepard can change that. Especially after recent events. And for colonist Shepard, it's going to take a Batarian helping Shepard, like maybe saving her life, to change her mind. Mindoir happened during the formative years.

The Batarians also use a caste system. Now caste systems also lead to cultural and technological stagnation. With the destruction of the Hegonomy by the Reapers, there will still be Batarian worlds, maybe there's an opportunity.

All we've run into are mercs, one civilian, and terrorists.

And with the Volus.... a greedy, backstabbing lot, and a biotic god, all with inferiority complexes. There have to a lot who aren't that way.

Quarians all carry a chip on their shoulder, except for Kal'Reegar.

Krogan are all violent and warmongering > Klingons. Wrex is trying to change that.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Remember you also are dealing with with writters that actually came out with a species of sentient creatures that the ME Universe openly discriminates against.... the Vorcha

Dont get me wrong I find them to be about as cute and cuddly as shotgun aimed at my face that fires halitosis rounds. However it is still is a race of creatures that it is okay to hate. When did that become a norm?

Every time I look at the Vorcha and think of their intellect I think of the TV show "Jersey Shore". However they were designed to be this way.

I understand that xenophobia should be avoided for Paragon Sheps, but would you be so liberal about the Yagh gaining rights all of a sudden? Some species are not meant to be liked. Like the Hutts.

[pfhorlorn]

marshalleck wrote...

It's pretty easy to understand, and the fact you don't understand it suggests you aren't paying attention.

That's really not very nice of you. Expressing your opinions and the way you see it is fine, but please don't make incorrect inferences about the content of my character like that. I was asking why people hate batarians, truly, and not trying to say "you're all bastards for thinking that way." Please don't tell me I'm not paying attention; I'm a BioWare fangirl through and through.

Modifié par koopaonfire, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:51 .

[marshalleck]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It's pretty to understand, and the fact you don't understand it suggests you aren't paying attention.

Every single batarian we meet without exception is an **** to some degree. Whether it's merely greedy merchant or terrorist out to kill millions of people, they are all pricks. Bioware wants players to dislike batarians, otherwise they'd have given us a moderate-attitude batarian to interact with. The fact that every other species (vorcha somewhat excluded) is shown to have both saints and sinners amongst their ranks but batarians do not should be extremely telling about Bioware's intent.

Not really.  A lot of the Blue Suns batarians were okay guys, and that one shopkeeper--Marsh?--was plenty decent.

They just tend to act like asses to humans because we were asses to them.  It's a viscous cycle.

Maybe so, but it's completely missing the point. If Bioware wanted players to like batarians, they would have given us a likable batarian. Maybe even a batarian squadmate. Sure, buried in the dialogue and game text there are mentions of decent batarians (the one that was on Garrus' Omega crew for example) but the player never interacts with that character directly. I'll say it again: people dislike batarians because Bioware have made a conscious, concerted, deliberate effort to make batarians unlikable. It's the attitude they want to foster for whatever reason--probably related to events in ME3. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:52 .