649 réponses à ce sujet

[vader da slayer]

two words: Skillian Blitz. people tend to hate people who try to enslave them en masse.

[AlexXIV]

Kmead15 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Species differentiation are very real, insurmountable barriers. There are behavioral and structural differences that will exist. This means that making judgments based on species is not the same as making judgments based on race.

Well there are dogs that would bite you and such that would not. So much for real differentiation. The common thing about racism or specism is that you generalize, and in worst case judge a majority of people on the behaviour of a few, maybe only a hand full you met personally.

Just because differences exist between individuals in a single species does not mean that differences between species cannot exist. It just means you generalized about the wrong thing. "All dogs bite" might be incorrect, but "All dogs are incapable of doing my Differential Equations homework" is pretty much true.

But that's what we are talking about. Hating all Batarians because of what some did. It is especially wrong with intelligent species who are not driven mostly by their instinct, but cognition.

[Kmead15]

AlexXIV wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

Just because differences exist between individuals in a single species does not mean that differences between species cannot exist. It just means you generalized about the wrong thing. "All dogs bite" might be incorrect, but "All dogs are incapable of doing my Differential Equations homework" is pretty much true.

But that's what we are talking about. Hating all Batarians because of what some did. It is especially wrong with intelligent species who are not driven mostly by their instinct, but cognition.

Are intelligent species driven mostly be cognition?

[filetemo]

Kmead15 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

Just because differences exist between individuals in a single species does not mean that differences between species cannot exist. It just means you generalized about the wrong thing. "All dogs bite" might be incorrect, but "All dogs are incapable of doing my Differential Equations homework" is pretty much true.

But that's what we are talking about. Hating all Batarians because of what some did. It is especially wrong with intelligent species who are not driven mostly by their instinct, but cognition.

Are intelligent species driven mostly be cognition?

in fact, we mostly use cognition to fulfill the desires our instincts dictate.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I don't make sweeping judgments on species/races because doing so is racist. There are good and bad people in every social,racial, and specie group you can't judge everyone based on the actions of a few people.

[filetemo]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

I don't make sweeping judgments on species/races because doing so is racist.

In real world it is, in a game not.
Because races in a game are designed to give you a certain myriad of feelings.
It's OK to desire the annihilation of a videogame race just because you don't like their accent or their looks. They're there for that.

[pfhorlorn]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

I don't understand it either, but it's possible it's just silly paragon players hating batarians.

I play mostly paragon.

[essarr71]

filetemo wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

I don't make sweeping judgments on species/races because doing so is racist.

In real world it is, in a game not.
Because races in a game are designed to give you a certain myriad of feelings.
It's OK to desire the annihilation of a videogame race just because you don't like their accent or their looks. They're there for that.

Indeed.  Anyone who "hates" batarians needs to step away from the keyboard for a little while.

If that feels like a cop out, then this is about roleplaying shepard.. and shep can have plenty of reasons to hate them.. seeing as they might have demolished that sheps childhood.. but I doubt anyone who manufactures that amount of thought into how "their" shepard will see the universe goes to sleep hoping their kids don't go out with a batarian one day.

Modifié par essarr71, 11 septembre 2011 - 11:58 .

[Golden Owl]

koopaonfire wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

I don't understand it either, but it's possible it's just silly paragon players hating batarians.

I play mostly paragon.

I'm a Paragon player also and certainly don't hate the Batarians.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Golden Owl wrote...

koopaonfire wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

I don't understand it either, but it's possible it's just silly paragon players hating batarians.

I play mostly paragon.

I'm a Paragon player also and certainly don't hate the Batarians.

Same here. If anything, I would think that paragon Shep would be more inclined to want peace with batarians than Renegade Shep would.

[Lexa_]

They are made to be hate by us. That's the only reason they exist. I wouldn't go so far to say only paragon players hate them. There is nothing to like about them. And yet SPOILER



I tried to warn them in Arrival and if I it was up to me I would've not killed 300, 000 Batarians.

[pfhorlorn]

Lexa_ wrote...

They are made to be hate by us. That's the only reason they exist. ... There is nothing to like about them. And yet SPOILER.

I disagree due to reasons already stated by myself and others in this thread.

Additionally, even if that's why they were made, it doesn't mean we have to put on blinders and view them in that narrow point of view that was, according to you, set up for us.

Modifié par koopaonfire, 12 septembre 2011 - 12:29 .

[filetemo]

koopaonfire wrote...

Lexa_ wrote...

They are made to be hate by us. That's the only reason they exist. ... There is nothing to like about them. And yet SPOILER.

I disagree due to reasons already stated by myself and others in this thread.

Additionally, even if that's why they were made, it doesn't mean we have to put on blinders and view them in that narrow point of view that was, according to you, set up for us.

seeing as how the batarians are depicted, there's two options: hate them or feel indiference. If you find no reason to hate them, there's not much else you can feel, based on their actions so far and how are they presented in-game.If the batarians abolish slavery and come to help to fight the reapers
with their entire fleet, with the leviathan of dis as a flagship, my
opinion may change.

What should I feel about Elcor? they're just comic relief.

I could feel indifference, or feel sorry for their slow movement and incomprehension by the other races, but that could probably be reading too much into the game.

[Lexa_]

koopaonfire wrote...

Lexa_ wrote...

They are made to be hate by us. That's the only reason they exist. ... There is nothing to like about them. And yet SPOILER.

I disagree due to reasons already stated by myself and others in this thread.

Additionally, even if that's why they were made, it doesn't mean we have to put on blinders and view them in that narrow point of view that was, according to you, set up for us.

I could not read every post made in 160 pages, so I just wrote down my reason for hating them.
There is absolutely nothing about them people could like. You can play the paragon card and say "they are mean to others" or you can play the renegade card and say "you don't care they are just in your way". Of course this can change in ME 3, but I doubt that. Everytime you run into a Batarian the are trying to enslave someone, they're trying to poison you or they try to threaten you. OR they cuss you out, so that I have no other choice except to help them survive a plague . That Batarian was a surprise and a nice at that. But I saved an individual not a whole race, he changed little to nothing for me, but I might change his view. Not going to political here but if someone asked me, why I hate the KKK I don't think I have to give an answer, it's just obvious and the same goes with the Batarians. Either you hate them, you ignore them or you like them and for the last part you actually need a reason which is not given, yet

[tjzsf]

Point I think you are missing:
It's not just a select group of bad eggs who just happen to be the only batarians you see. It's the fact that slavery is an "integral part of the caste system which is the cornerstone of their culture", which in turn is the whole reason the Council didn't intervene and basically told humanity and the batarians to settle their disputes by themselves. So humanity defended itself a bit too well and now the batarians are crying because the new kid they were trying to bully hit them back.

In addition, you do hear the batarian side from Bring Down the Sky, where Balak claims that everything they do is because humanity strolled in and started settling in batarian space - except that's not what happened at all. The Traverse and the Verge was unclaimed territory that the batarians just so happened to get a headstart on settling. They started the hostilities by raiding human colonies for slaves and resources. Any losses they've suffered at human hands, they brought that on themselves.

tl;dr version: batarian hate because their entire culture is based on an institution that is morally abhorrent to most and because they're a bunch of ****** who are trying to play the sympathy card after they tried to bully a dragon.

[Sajuro]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

I don't understand it either, but it's possible it's just silly paragon players hating batarians.

So Renegades are with the humanity first side, and Paragons are with the happy bunnies and united races side, so we must be the ones hating Batarians?
.....
my brain hurts

[In Exile]

If you played through "I remember me" and hear what batarians slavers do, it's very hard not to want to pluck out their eyes one by one.

It's like having someone's first introduction to a human be by hearing about WWII war crimes.

[Medhia Nox]

@In Exile - if you hate what the Batarians do, boy - do I have a story about the North American continent that will curdle your blood.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:47 .

[1136342t54_]

tjzsf wrote...

Point I think you are missing:
It's not just a select group of bad eggs who just happen to be the only batarians you see. It's the fact that slavery is an "integral part of the caste system which is the cornerstone of their culture", which in turn is the whole reason the Council didn't intervene and basically told humanity and the batarians to settle their disputes by themselves. So humanity defended itself a bit too well and now the batarians are crying because the new kid they were trying to bully hit them back.

In addition, you do hear the batarian side from Bring Down the Sky, where Balak claims that everything they do is because humanity strolled in and started settling in batarian space - except that's not what happened at all. The Traverse and the Verge was unclaimed territory that the batarians just so happened to get a headstart on settling. They started the hostilities by raiding human colonies for slaves and resources. Any losses they've suffered at human hands, they brought that on themselves.

tl;dr version: batarian hate because their entire culture is based on an institution that is morally abhorrent to most and because they're a bunch of ****** who are trying to play the sympathy card after they tried to bully a dragon.

Good then you hate all the slaves who are mostly Batarians. Also you hate all Batarians who are stuck in a lower part of the caste system who can't do crap about it. Anyone who says they hate Batarians only dislike the Batarian leadership, the slavers and wealthy who keep slaves. The Batarians have a caste system in which some are slaves, most are just poor as hell, some are slavers, merchants etc. 

No matter how you try and make it black and white it isn't and to do so is pointless.

[S.A.K]

God damn terrorists.

[In Exile]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@In Exile - if you hate what the Batarians do, boy - do I have a story about the North American continent that will curdle your blood.

Oh, I know what the European settlers did, if that's what you're driving at.

But it's a matter of perception. Being exposed only to batarian torture is pretty much the reason for the batarian hate. 

[1136342t54_]

In Exile wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@In Exile - if you hate what the Batarians do, boy - do I have a story about the North American continent that will curdle your blood.

Oh, I know what the European settlers did, if that's what you're driving at.

But it's a matter of perception. Being exposed only to batarian torture is pretty much the reason for the batarian hate. 

Actually no. Read the Codex and you will actually learn something about Batarian society.

[tjzsf]

1136342t54 wrote...
Good then you hate all the slaves who are mostly Batarians. Also you hate all Batarians who are stuck in a lower part of the caste system who can't do crap about it. Anyone who says they hate Batarians only dislike the Batarian leadership, the slavers and wealthy who keep slaves. The Batarians have a caste system in which some are slaves, most are just poor as hell, some are slavers, merchants etc. 

No matter how you try and make it black and white it isn't and to do so is pointless.

No, it's still pretty black and white depending on how deeply entrenched that culture is.

Everyone hates the batarian leadership for being a bunch of crybabies when they tried to bully humanity and humanity hit them back, and for that slavery thing, and for sponsoring terrorist attacks against humanity, and for blaming humans for something that's their own fault, and for withdrawing from the Council when they didn't get their way. That much is black and white.

The only point of contention is whether the non-leadership believe the same. If you somehow topple the regime and let the lower castes rule, and they mellow out and integrate with galactic society again, then sure, I'll accept that my opinion of batarians need reevaluation.

If, however, they keep things the same like what normally happens when you overthrow a government, then no, eff those batarians.

[SandTrout]

I am a mostly paragon player, and I would advocate the destruction of the Hegemony. Its practices are a direct threat to humanity and it represents and reinforces a culture that is repugnant to me.

The point is that the Hegemony has made a habit of placing their interests as mutually exclusive to everyone else's. They refuse to acknowledge the prospect of coexistence for mutual gain. They have deliberately burned the bridges that could lead to diplomacy and have refuse to build any.

They have set the terms so that peace is not possible, so we should move to eliminate them as a threat at the best opportunity. Eradicating their government, major industry, and military should be adequate to cripple them so that they are not a threat again any time soon.

[Sajuro]

In Exile wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@In Exile - if you hate what the Batarians do, boy - do I have a story about the North American continent that will curdle your blood.

Oh, I know what the European settlers did, if that's what you're driving at.

But it's a matter of perception. Being exposed only to batarian torture is pretty much the reason for the batarian hate. 

I hate to tell you, but if there is a square mile of land a human has walked on, chances are at least one person was murdered there and the history of mankind is riddled with atrocities, like Fallout says "war... war never changes"