649 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

leonia42 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Oh, and "You humans are all speciesist!" really doesn't have the same ring, now does it?

Fair point.

Bigots then?

[Leonia]

^ Every race has their sinners and saints.

[CroGamer002]

^Never argued that fact.

[ErrorTagUnknown]

I'm thinking, the way they are setting up batarians .... yes, we're not supposed to like them, yes there are "good" batarians hidden through the dialogue (and frankly, so much of it is misunderstanding -- i've argued this with people before).... It's a setup for ME3.
*spoiler??* arrival already involved them. So obviously there is going to be some tension in me3. you'll probably have to resolve that, and in doing so, both Batarians and Humans will see that "we're not so different after all" *sniff*. MARK. MY. WORDS.

[TobyHasEyes]

General Hammer wrote...

For me anyway, it boils down to roleplaying. All the backgrounds were somehow negativly affected by batarians. ruthless on torfan solesurvivor and the slavers and war hero fights them on Elysium. so every Shepard backstory has SOMETHING against batarians.

 Or more accurately, all these backgrounds have some grounds which would make an anti-Batarian sentiment understandable, rather than specifically stating that those backgrounds have something 'against' Batarians

 For example, my canon Shep is a colony kid, and as such lost his parents to slavers on Mindoir (probably involving Batarians, though not exclusively).. yet he does not hold any anti-Batarian views

[Bad King]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

General Hammer wrote...

For me anyway, it boils down to roleplaying. All the backgrounds were somehow negativly affected by batarians. ruthless on torfan solesurvivor and the slavers and war hero fights them on Elysium. so every Shepard backstory has SOMETHING against batarians.

 Or more accurately, all these backgrounds have some grounds which would make an anti-Batarian sentiment understandable, rather than specifically stating that those backgrounds have something 'against' Batarians

 For example, my canon Shep is a colony kid, and as such lost his parents to slavers on Mindoir (probably involving Batarians, though not exclusively).. yet he does not hold any anti-Batarian views

Not all backgrounds. Earthborn/Sole Survivor has nothing to do with batarians.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

As I've said elsewhere. I play my colonist/survivor Shepard as one who hates slavers, not Batarians. Now the colonist/ruthless Shepard is another story. The earthborn/survivor has nothing against Batarians and doesn't care about the slavers. Why should she? They have done nothing to her. Even the earthborn/ruthless might not hate Batarians either, but just wants to completely annihilate the enemy "no prisoners!" The (all but colonist)/war hero might not hate Batarians at all -- just did her job.

The only one I can see having a good possibility of racist feelings is the colonist/ruthless combination.

This thread is a good indication of what is the most primal of emotion -- Hate. Hate is the most powerful emotion. It is more powerful than love.

[TobyHasEyes]

Bad King wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

General Hammer wrote...

For me anyway, it boils down to roleplaying. All the backgrounds were somehow negativly affected by batarians. ruthless on torfan solesurvivor and the slavers and war hero fights them on Elysium. so every Shepard backstory has SOMETHING against batarians.

 Or more accurately, all these backgrounds have some grounds which would make an anti-Batarian sentiment understandable, rather than specifically stating that those backgrounds have something 'against' Batarians

 For example, my canon Shep is a colony kid, and as such lost his parents to slavers on Mindoir (probably involving Batarians, though not exclusively).. yet he does not hold any anti-Batarian views

Not all backgrounds. Earthborn/Sole Survivor has nothing to do with batarians.

 I didn't say all background, I said all these backgrounds

[Bad King]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Bad King wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

General Hammer wrote...

For me anyway, it boils down to roleplaying. All the backgrounds were somehow negativly affected by batarians. ruthless on torfan solesurvivor and the slavers and war hero fights them on Elysium. so every Shepard backstory has SOMETHING against batarians.

 Or more accurately, all these backgrounds have some grounds which would make an anti-Batarian sentiment understandable, rather than specifically stating that those backgrounds have something 'against' Batarians

 For example, my canon Shep is a colony kid, and as such lost his parents to slavers on Mindoir (probably involving Batarians, though not exclusively).. yet he does not hold any anti-Batarian views

Not all backgrounds. Earthborn/Sole Survivor has nothing to do with batarians.

 I didn't say all background, I said all these backgrounds

General Hammer said "all backgrounds". And what do you mean by "all these backgrounds"?

[Sylvianus]

An other example of the batarian brutality. Yeah. Why the hate. I hate slavery. And those that minimize this fact they should suffer it to see what it really is.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Sobek

Sobek[/b] is a hydrogen-nitrogen gas giant believed to be an extrasolar capture. Its low-G moons were the sites of many batarian labor camps during the Anhur Rebellions, generating raw materials for the war. When the slaves were finally liberated by Eclipse the mercenaries found abysmal conditions, including whole camps that lacked mass effect fields to keep the gravity at habitable levels. The widespread bone loss among the slaves was part of their masters' final degradation — it would cripple them if they ever left for a standard-gravity world.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 15 septembre 2011 - 11:08 .

[suprhomre]

 Well let me see one Batarian wanted to blow a whole planate with a meteor, one tried to poisone me at Omega and every damn batarian i have met so far had try/done something harmful against Humans. Not to mention my family, friends and home destroyed by Batarians. If I were Shepeard I don't think Batarian comes in the most highest regard in my book. Beside, even if Batarian had not done me any wrong I don't like slavery and all that comes with it.

So, kill a Batarian more or less I don't care. It would be much easier if they all were indoctrinated.  

[TobyHasEyes]

suprhomre wrote...

 Well let me see one Batarian wanted to blow a whole planate with a meteor, one tried to poisone me at Omega and every damn batarian i have met so far had try/done something harmful against Humans. Not to mention my family, friends and home destroyed by Batarians. If I were Shepeard I don't think Batarian comes in the most highest regard in my book. Beside, even if Batarian had not done me any wrong I don't like slavery and all that comes with it.

So, kill a Batarian more or less I don't care. It would be much easier if they all were indoctrinated.  

 And all those Batarians who haven't done you harm, and who you don't know whether they have a connection to slavery or not?

 What about the enslaved Batarians?

[Ahriman]

suprhomre wrote...

 Beside, even if Batarian had not done me any wrong I don't like slavery and all that comes with it.
 

A lot of slavers in Terminus System are ... humans. What a surprise.

[Ieldra]

Wizz wrote...

suprhomre wrote...

 Beside, even if Batarian had not done me any wrong I don't like slavery and all that comes with it.
 

A lot of slavers in Terminus System are ... humans. What a surprise.

Yes. I've always said Batarians are the species most like humans. They're humanity's dark mirror-image, something we can be at our worst and have been altogether too many times in history. 

Except for those who aren't, of course, though examples are rare. Hating them as a species means you're racist. Of course, that's one part of the dark mirror-image... you are more like them than you'd think.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 septembre 2011 - 01:42 .

[sedrikhcain]

Batarians frequently come off as punks, IMO. I don't hate them but I have less respect for them than any other species, even the sleazy Volus (Voli?).

[Warheadz]

Batarians are ugly. And they smell.

[Sylvianus]

Montezuma IV wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Wizz wrote...

suprhomre wrote...

 Beside, even if Batarian had not done me any wrong I don't like slavery and all that comes with it.
 

A lot of slavers in Terminus System are ... humans. What a surprise.

Yes. I've always said Batarians are the species most like humans. They're humanity's dark mirror-image, something we can be at our worst and have been altogether too many times in history. 

Except for those who aren't, of course, though examples are rare. Hating them as a species means you're racist. Of course, that's one part of the dark mirror-image... you are more like them than you'd think.

Um.....no. Practically all the species have human characteristics (most likely because they were created by humans) and each could be a mirror, if argueed well, of human qualities. And I dislike Bartarians because so far they all have the same douche-bag characteristics.

This. I don't see why batarians would be our mirror and not the others species since they have all human characteristics, Turians are pretty much humans too.

Terminus systems  are a den of bandits, criminals, tyrants and ruthless mercenaries. The Alliance system allow slavery ? No. Earth allow slavery ? No. Human colonies ? No. I don't see the point.

I do not see the connection with humans as a species like the Batarians. There are also Turian and Asari who are slaveholders. Rotten fruit they're everywhere.

But the difference is that their species has not institutionalized slavery.

Also Batarians  specifically target humans since 2170. Thousands of humans  suffered currently their control, these bastards.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 15 septembre 2011 - 02:18 .

[TobyHasEyes]

 And yet none of these points answer why people think i is justified to be so indiscriminate with your dislike

 Some Batarians are brutal, some are cruel, some enslave..
 The Batarian Hegemony condones, encourages, and probably funds and practises slave labour and slave grabs..

 But what justifies treating every Batarian as though they are brutal, cruel, or slavers, when you do not know?
 

[eye basher]

Because the're batarians.

[Sylvianus]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

 And yet none of these points answer why people think i is justified to be so indiscriminate with your dislike

 Some Batarians are brutal, some are cruel, some enslave..
 The Batarian Hegemony condones, encourages, and probably funds and practises slave labour and slave grabs..

 But what justifies treating every Batarian as though they are brutal, cruel, or slavers, when you do not know?
 

The question is why the hate ? You have your answer.

 Hostility against humanity. campaign of terror against the human colonies. Brutal slavery. It's enough to have little respect for their species. The other species don't do that, we see the good they bring, to counterbalance.. also their government threat us;

The batarians support their state against humanity. They are nationalists, they have the right to be, as the Germans supported Hitler at the beginning of World War II, with all his victories. But do not be surprised that some people do not like Batarians then, as some British and Americans at the time did not like the Germans and ****s.

The batarian lords of war, batarian slavers, lord  Batarian criminal are related to Karshan which encourages them to attack humans and they obey willingly.

At Omega, the Batarians are racists against humans, one of them poison you.
 
Each indication in the game used to give you an idea of what a species can be broadly, and we have enough data in the game to see that Batarians are united in their hatred of humans, and they think that the slavery is an excellent thing and is part of their culture.

I would be less bothered they say it's part of their culture, if they did not attack other species to have slaves. But hell, they do, that is unacceptable.

Whether you like it or not, each nation, each entity, each group is subject to subjective opinions that depend on his actions, etc.

A group that has only shown that dark side, you will not love it  even though there are some exceptions.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 15 septembre 2011 - 03:12 .

[marshalleck]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Wizz wrote...

suprhomre wrote...

 Beside, even if Batarian had not done me any wrong I don't like slavery and all that comes with it.
 

A lot of slavers in Terminus System are ... humans. What a surprise.

Yes. I've always said Batarians are the species most like humans. They're humanity's dark mirror-image, something we can be at our worst and have been altogether too many times in history. 

Except for those who aren't, of course, though examples are rare. Hating them as a species means you're racist. Of course, that's one part of the dark mirror-image... you are more like them than you'd think.

You're giving Bioware way too much credit, and as has been said multiple times in this thread, all the races in ME are essentially human cultures, the batarians no more so. There is no "dark mirror-image" there and I seriously doubt it occurred to Bioware to even attempt something so mid-brow when setting up the world. More than likely they knew they wanted to have some sort of cold war brewing with humanity which could potentially ignite at some point and the batarians were made to fit the bill. Nothing more nothing less.

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 septembre 2011 - 03:33 .

[Medhia Nox]

I'd forgive the Batarians all grievances if they would wipe out the Asari.

[Sylvianus]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I'd forgive the Batarians all grievances if they would wipe out the Asari.

Why don't you like Asari ?

[TobyHasEyes]

Sylvianus wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

 And yet none of these points answer why people think i is justified to be so indiscriminate with your dislike

 Some Batarians are brutal, some are cruel, some enslave..
 The Batarian Hegemony condones, encourages, and probably funds and practises slave labour and slave grabs..

 But what justifies treating every Batarian as though they are brutal, cruel, or slavers, when you do not know?
 

The question is why the hate ? You have your answer.

 Hostility against humanity. campaign of terror against the human colonies. Brutal slavery. It's enough to have little respect for their species. The other species don't do that, we see the good they bring, to counterbalance.. also their government threat us;

The batarians support their state against humanity. They are nationalists, they have the right to be, as the Germans supported Hitler at the beginning of World War II, with all his victories. But do not be surprised that some people do not like Batarians then, as some British and Americans at the time did not like the Germans and ****s.

The batarian lords of war, batarian slavers, lord  Batarian criminal are related to Karshan which encourages them to attack humans and they obey willingly.

At Omega, the Batarians are racists against humans, one of them poison you.
 
Each indication in the game used to give you an idea of what a species can be broadly, and we have enough data in the game to see that Batarians are united in their hatred of humans, and they think that the slavery is an excellent thing and is part of their culture.

I would be less bothered they say it's part of their culture, if they did not attack other species to have slaves. But hell, they do, that is unacceptable.

Whether you like it or not, each nation, each entity, each group is subject to subjective opinions that depend on his actions, etc.

A group that has only shown that dark side, you will not love it  even though there are some exceptions.

 Seriously, bringing the WII analogy doesn't help your case (I won't even go into the implications in comparing Germans to Batarians, especially considering what anti-Batarian views you defend as legitimate!) Excusing how we don't even know if the Batarian Hegemony is democratic or supported by the people (and it it suggested it is not), even then any exceptions make having a indiscriminate attitude towards Batarians unjustified

 You have a broad view of Batarians, but that does not make all-encompassing assumptions justified. I don't disagree with any of your assertions of how brutal Batarians have been. Nor do I disagree that our overwhelming experience of Batarians are negative. But it is important to make a distinction between what is understandable and what is accurate; it is understandable that people generalise, but it is not accurate nor is it justified

Modifié par TobyHasEyes, 15 septembre 2011 - 03:50 .