649 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

 And yet none of these points answer why people think i is justified to be so indiscriminate with your dislike

 Some Batarians are brutal, some are cruel, some enslave..
 The Batarian Hegemony condones, encourages, and probably funds and practises slave labour and slave grabs..

 But what justifies treating every Batarian as though they are brutal, cruel, or slavers, when you do not know?
 

The question is why the hate ? You have your answer.

 Hostility against humanity. campaign of terror against the human colonies. Brutal slavery. It's enough to have little respect for their species. The other species don't do that, we see the good they bring, to counterbalance.. also their government threat us;

The batarians support their state against humanity. They are nationalists, they have the right to be, as the Germans supported Hitler at the beginning of World War II, with all his victories. But do not be surprised that some people do not like Batarians then, as some British and Americans at the time did not like the Germans and ****s.

The batarian lords of war, batarian slavers, lord  Batarian criminal are related to Karshan which encourages them to attack humans and they obey willingly.

At Omega, the Batarians are racists against humans, one of them poison you.
 
Each indication in the game used to give you an idea of what a species can be broadly, and we have enough data in the game to see that Batarians are united in their hatred of humans, and they think that the slavery is an excellent thing and is part of their culture.

I would be less bothered they say it's part of their culture, if they did not attack other species to have slaves. But hell, they do, that is unacceptable.

Whether you like it or not, each nation, each entity, each group is subject to subjective opinions that depend on his actions, etc.

A group that has only shown that dark side, you will not love it  even though there are some exceptions.

 Seriously, bringing the WII analogy doesn't help your case (I won't even go into the implications in comparing Germans to Batarians, especially considering what anti-Batarian views you defend as legitimate!) Excusing how we don't even know if the Batarian Hegemony is democratic or supported by the people (and it it suggested it is not), even then any exceptions make having a indiscriminate attitude towards Batarians unjustified

 You have a broad view of Batarians, but that does not make all-encompassing assumptions justified. I don't disagree with any of your assertions of how brutal Batarians have been. Nor do I disagree that our overwhelming experience of Batarians are negative. But it is important to make a distinction between what is understandable and what is accurate; it is understandable that people generalise, but it is not accurate nor is it justified

None of that was ever the question of the thread, though. And I very much doubt many people spend much time in their real lives "hating" a fictional race of goons and thugs.

[TobyHasEyes]

Read the OP marshalleck

[marshalleck]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Read the OP marshalleck

Not only have I read the OP, I have conversed extensively with Koopaonfire in PM on this subject and I quite well understand what she was after, and I'm confident she's got her answer.

[The dead fish]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...
And yet none of these points answer why people think i is justified to be so indiscriminate with your dislike

 Some Batarians are brutal, some are cruel, some enslave..
 The Batarian Hegemony condones, encourages, and probably funds and practises slave labour and slave grabs..

 But what justifies treating every Batarian as though they are brutal, cruel, or slavers, when you do not know?
 

snip

 Seriously, bringing the WII analogy doesn't help your case (I won't even go into the implications in comparing Germans to Batarians, especially considering what anti-Batarian views you defend as legitimate!) Excusing how we don't even know if the Batarian Hegemony is democratic or supported by the people (and it it suggested it is not), even then any exceptions make having a indiscriminate attitude towards Batarians unjustified

 I made no analogy, and did not compare the Germans to Batarians. It was just an example of subjective point of view that may arise due to geopolitical situations, terrible facts or during war about a group or entity. I said that many British did not like the Germans during the war. This may be the same for those who play a human, who are human themselves and that are intended to play a special forces soldier of an organization that defends humanity. When they look at Batarian,  they have negative views, The radicalism of many of them ( actually almost all of them ) have altered the perceptions of many people about this group as a whole. That's just what I said. It's like that in real life too anyways. But no one said it was justified. They answer why they don't like batarians.

These views may change over time anyway.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 15 septembre 2011 - 04:02 .

[TobyHasEyes]

marshalleck wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Read the OP marshalleck

Not only have I read the OP, I have conversed extensively with Koopaonfire in PM on this subject and I quite well understand what she was after, and I'm confident she's got her answer.

 You can't argue that I wasn't addressing the topic as set out by the OP

 And I was originally responding to people whose comments were expressing that it is justified to generalise, rather than understandable

 And if the debate people are really holding is.. 'why do lots of in-game characters dislike Batarians?' then.. well I am happy to bail on that 'debate'

Modifié par TobyHasEyes, 15 septembre 2011 - 04:04 .

[Illusive1]

Sylvianus wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...
And yet none of these points answer why people think i is justified to be so indiscriminate with your dislike

 Some Batarians are brutal, some are cruel, some enslave..
 The Batarian Hegemony condones, encourages, and probably funds and practises slave labour and slave grabs..

 But what justifies treating every Batarian as though they are brutal, cruel, or slavers, when you do not know?
 

snip

 Seriously, bringing the WII analogy doesn't help your case (I won't even go into the implications in comparing Germans to Batarians, especially considering what anti-Batarian views you defend as legitimate!) Excusing how we don't even know if the Batarian Hegemony is democratic or supported by the people (and it it suggested it is not), even then any exceptions make having a indiscriminate attitude towards Batarians unjustified

 I made no analogy, and did not compare the Germans to Batarians. It was just an example of subjective point of view that may arise due to geopolitical situations, terrible facts or during war about a group or entity. I said that many British did not like the Germans during the war. This may be the same for those who play a human, who are human themselves and that are intended to play a special forces soldier of an organization that defends humanity. When they look at Batarian,  they have negative views, The radicalism of many of them ( actually almost all of them ) have altered the perceptions of many people about this group as a whole. That's just what I said. It's like that in real life too anyways. But no one said it was justified. They answer why they don't like batarians.

These views may change over time anyway.

Germans are tight, but the Batarians suck.

[Eyerock]

I thought the batarians I met in Mordin's reqruitment mission (and batarians at Omega in general) were a pretty decent bunch of people. The one I met dying in the street and the gang who wanted to torture Mordin's assistant turned out to be BOTH polite and respectable once I showed them a little kindness.

I think it's given that every batarian out there is going to be distrustful of humans, especially now that we've all destroyed a batarian colony. Their reasons earlier were never "good" reasons to hate humans, but nonetheless, they will never just change their opinion on a whim. Batarians are too stubborn for that. So we should try and act like the better men here. Show them that their reasons are wrong and that their fear and hatred for our species is unjustified.
In other words...LET'S TOLERATE AND LOVE THE **** OUT OF THEM!!!!!

[Omega4RelayResident]

For the love of mercy VOTE nao! Garrus needs HELP! uk.gamespot.com/greatest-video-game-sidekick/vote/battle-hub/index.html I know off topic and I appologize but this is an emergency!

[didymos1120]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

For the love of mercy VOTE nao! Garrus needs HELP! uk.gamespot.com/greatest-video-game-sidekick/vote/battle-hub/index.html I know off topic and I appologize but this is an emergency!

Make your own topic.  This is straight-up spam.

[Chewin]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

For the love of mercy VOTE nao! Garrus needs HELP! uk.gamespot.com/greatest-video-game-sidekick/vote/battle-hub/index.html I know off topic and I appologize but this is an emergency!

You just make me wanna vote for HK.

[CroGamer002]

Chewin3 wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

For the love of mercy VOTE nao! Garrus needs HELP! uk.gamespot.com/greatest-video-game-sidekick/vote/battle-hub/index.html I know off topic and I appologize but this is an emergency!

You just make me wanna vote for HK.

Didn't you already vote for HK?

[Omega4RelayResident]

Really... that uptight are we this morning? FFS I cant even try to support our game because its SPAM? I appologized for this for crying out loud... no need to take it so dang seriously.

[Chewin]

Mesina2 wrote...
Didn't you already vote for HK?

Yeah, but he didn't know it.

[pfhorlorn]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Really... that uptight are we this morning? FFS I cant even try to support our game because its SPAM? I appologized for this for crying out loud... no need to take it so dang seriously.

lol.

[lovgreno]

Zeta030 wrote...

Whatever you are talking about, it doesn't matter. Bioware put the Batarians in a place to be hated by Mass Effect gamers. If you can't understand that, then you can get bent

Oh man this is funny. You are right because you say you are and anyone who disagrees can get bent. I never heard any writer saying that the batarians have any special role in the story. In fact I suspect they won't make batarians either total villains or total heroes because thus far the ME story has not been the black and white type of story. On the contrary it seems  to me like they try hard to make a moraly grey story. You know, a world where you are not always right and there are no real reason to pretend you are superior, just like in real life.

[Aggie Punbot]

I read through the first page of this thread and was alarmed to see that no one mentioned the fact that batarians are, by their own choice, slavers. That's reason enough for my renegade and paragon Shepards to hate them.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 18 septembre 2011 - 08:11 .

[didymos1120]

TS2Aggie wrote...

I read through the first page of this thread and was alarmed to see that no one mentioned the fact that batarians are, by their own choice, slavers. That's reason enough for my renegade and paragon Shepards to hate them.

You should have kept reading.  Or just re-read the first page, which has numerous mentions of slavery.

Modifié par didymos1120, 18 septembre 2011 - 08:17 .

[Aggie Punbot]

Ah, you're right. Two small posts on the first page made mention of it. My mistake.

I still maintain my position that I have no problem hating a society that enforces slavery (on their own people and even more so on other species).

[pfhorlorn]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Ah, you're right. Two small posts on the first page made mention of it. My mistake.

I still maintain my position that I have no problem hating a society that enforces slavery (on their own people and even more so on other species).

I'll reiterate my stance one final time on how the laws and thoughts of the Hegemony aren't necessarily reflective of the entire race. The United States's bout with slavery and racism centuries ago didn't mean that all Southerners were malicious slavedrivers without hearts (or Northerners for that matter; New Jersey was the last northern state to abolish slavery, if I recall).

But no more iterations from me after this. I'm done regurgitating my words.

Modifié par koopaonfire, 18 septembre 2011 - 09:17 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Hate. The gift that keeps on giving. We still hate the Russians because they were commies, and about 90% of teh people think they still are. Are we still supposed to hate the Germans? How about the Italians (they had slaves as Rome)? How about the Greeks? British? Americans?

Here's one: Do the Japanese hate Americans because we locked them all in camps during WWII? No. How about because we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki? No.

No I think the Batarians are there to give us a good look at ourselves.

[SandTrout]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Hate. The gift that keeps on giving. We still hate the Russians because they were commies, and about 90% of teh people think they still are. Are we still supposed to hate the Germans? How about the Italians (they had slaves as Rome)? How about the Greeks? British? Americans?

Here's one: Do the Japanese hate Americans because we locked them all in camps during WWII? No. How about because we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki? No.

No I think the Batarians are there to give us a good look at ourselves.

And none of those nations are doing those things, any more....

The Hegemony is.

[KBomb]

I don’t hate them, I dislike them. I have never met one in-game that I actually liked. I don’t want one as a squad mate simply because I don’t want to look at them--same with Vorcha. Simple as that. I think it’s ridiculous to get upset about people disliking--or even hating a fictional species. I don’t care that people like them, or Vorcha. People shouldn’t care why someone dislikes them either.


Also this:

Sylvianus wrote...

Hostility against humanity. campaign of terror against the human colonies. Brutal slavery. It's enough to have little respect for their species. The other species don't do that, we see the good they bring, to counterbalance.. also their government threat us;

The batarians support their state against humanity. They are nationalists, they have the right to be, as the Germans supported Hitler at the beginning of World War II, with all his victories. But do not be surprised that some people do not like Batarians then, as some British and Americans at the time did not like the Germans and ****s.

The batarian lords of war, batarian slavers, lord Batarian criminal are related to Karshan which encourages them to attack humans and they obey willingly.

At Omega, the Batarians are racists against humans, one of them poison you.

Each indication in the game used to give you an idea of what a species can be broadly, and we have enough data in the game to see that Batarians are united in their hatred of humans, and they think that the slavery is an excellent thing and is part of their culture.

I would be less bothered they say it's part of their culture, if they did not attack other species to have slaves. But hell, they do, that is unacceptable.

Whether you like it or not, each nation, each entity, each group is subject to subjective opinions that depend on his actions, etc.

A group that has only shown that dark side, you will not love it even though there are some exceptions.

And this:

TS2Aggie wrote...

Ah, you're right. Two small posts on the first page made mention of it. My mistake.

I still maintain my position that I have no problem hating a society that enforces slavery (on their own people and even more so on other species).

Modifié par KBomb, 18 septembre 2011 - 11:10 .

[tjzsf]

The American South were slavers.
Batarians are slavers.
That makes all the difference.

[tjzsf]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

lobi wrote...


Unless it's indentured labour with a term that is directly tied to payment of a debt that keeps increasing with interest, interest which just happens to be the maximum amount an indentured worker gets in wages. Go Illium!

Funny how people aren't all hating on Asari for having that fancier slavery. :/

Because that "fancier" slavery involves signing a contract that, upon examination, has very little difference from the contract I signed with the consulting firm I now work it. Nowhere in that contract did it involve me getting branded and tagged with control chips without anasthesia, or beatings, or the burning and razing of my hometown.

Implying two bad things to be equivalent really fails when you acknowledge that one bad thing is like a nicer version of the other bad thing.