236 réponses à ce sujet

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

The Xand wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Which is odd because I found DA2 compansions generally more interesting and easier to relate to than Origins ones... anyway, there may have been a dialogue hiccup there. But it doesn't make the system itself bad.

Admit it. You fancied Varric.

I sure did. :wub::wub:

[jbblue05]

Xilizhra wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Wait, what? That wasn't really what I meant... it's a personal foible of mine. Plenty of people like doing the f/f Isabela romance; I'm not one to deny them that (the only romance I'd want to deny people is Merrill's rivalmance). I'm still for all LIs being bi.

Why? What's wrong with merril's rivalmance?

I find it egregiously manipulative, emotionally abusive, and bloody creepy. I feel the same way about the Anders rivalmance, though to a somewhat lesser extent because I don't feel as protective of him.

Good point

I don't like the Isabela rivalmance also  Hawke sounds like Anders constantly judging her for everything she does.  Isabela is annoyed and disilikes Anders but Hawke does the same thing  .

[Xilizhra]

The Xand wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Which is odd because I found DA2 compansions generally more interesting and easier to relate to than Origins ones... anyway, there may have been a dialogue hiccup there. But it doesn't make the system itself bad.

Admit it. You fancied Varric.

Too much not-being-a-woman. Also, he's already found the love of his life.

[RagingCyclone]

@Xilizhra--You may have liked the companions better in DA2, but keep in mind you are one voice in how many millions have bought and played both games. Even the forums here are just a small percentage of the total DA community of players which is something I think gets forgotten a lot, I'm guilty of it myself at times. I'm just saying a characters preferences is part of their personality. Morrigan for example was a very complex and dynamic character. Being hetro was a part of her persona, she was very believable and almost a living character, and if she had been available as a bi LI but no changes really in the writing of her character would have been a confusing and jumbled mess. Same goes for Zevran who was written expressly bi. It was part of his persona, and it was part of what made him a rich and complex character. Then move now to Isabela who herself is a rich character and complex come Act 3, but like you pointed out for some players was confusing in some ways making those players possible miss the complexity she possessed. Had her banter leaned more in the direction of Zevran's I think that confusion would not exist. Again this is just my opinion. It's why I said earlier an only gay character I think would make an interesting character in the game with some dynamics not explored yet in the series.

[rak72]

^ I think a strictly gay character would be great.

[Costin_Razvan]

Gay Romance in DA2 is a bunch of ****. It's just the same thing as oposite sex romance for the most part.

Gay Romance in DA:O with Zevran is one of the most awesome moments of the game. I really liked it even though I AM a straight guy myself since it was very deep and thus well done.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 13 septembre 2011 - 03:05 .

[Xilizhra]

Morrigan for example was a very complex and dynamic character. Being hetro was a part of her persona, she was very believable and almost a living character, and if she had been available as a bi LI but no changes really in the writing of her character would have been a confusing and jumbled mess.

No, it... really wasn't. She never talks about only liking men, and really, the only thing male-specific about her romance path are a couple of pronoun uses in banter. Those could be fixed easily enough.

[RagingCyclone]

Xilizhra wrote...

Morrigan for example was a very complex and dynamic character. Being hetro was a part of her persona, she was very believable and almost a living character, and if she had been available as a bi LI but no changes really in the writing of her character would have been a confusing and jumbled mess.

No, it... really wasn't. She never talks about only liking men, and really, the only thing male-specific about her romance path are a couple of pronoun uses in banter. Those could be fixed easily enough.

Um...you need to play that again then. You missed a lot concerning her and her preferences...especially in a romance rivalry with Leliana and male warden. Playing as only one gender or one kind of playthrough means missing a lot about a character.

[Xilizhra]

Um...you need to play that again then. You missed a lot concerning her and her preferences...especially in a romance rivalry with Leliana and male warden. Playing as only one gender or one kind of playthrough means missing a lot about a character.

I have seen the dialogue there; really, the only thing gender-specific about it is the pronouns.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Xilizhra wrote...

Morrigan for example was a very complex and dynamic character. Being hetro was a part of her persona, she was very believable and almost a living character, and if she had been available as a bi LI but no changes really in the writing of her character would have been a confusing and jumbled mess.

No, it... really wasn't. She never talks about only liking men, and really, the only thing male-specific about her romance path are a couple of pronoun uses in banter. Those could be fixed easily enough.

Well, there also is that awkward bit where she wwill end up asking a female Warden to father her demon child.....

[RagingCyclone]

Xilizhra wrote...

Um...you need to play that again then. You missed a lot concerning her and her preferences...especially in a romance rivalry with Leliana and male warden. Playing as only one gender or one kind of playthrough means missing a lot about a character.

I have seen the dialogue there; really, the only thing gender-specific about it is the pronouns.

Seen, but I am guessing not heard. Regardless it's clear you are set in a certain mode of thinking, so I'm bowing out to move onto other things. Happy gaming.

[rak72]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
*snip*

My only real irritation with Isabela is that almost all of her sex talk involves men. While I don't think it makes her worse, it does make me worry that romancing her as a female Hawke would leave several needs unfulfilled unless the relationship was open, which is one reason I always go for Merrill.

This here is the main reason I am not the keenest on all LI's being bi. Like you say it kind of muddles her character a little when most (not all because she does talk about sleeping with women with Bethany) leans one direction. I prefer a more balanced mix in the LI's, one hetro, two bi, and one gay.  I think that kind of mix would provide a good dynamic in the companions. And although I don't think it would happen, but a system like KOTOR: TSL had where the two companions that were not bi could change based on the gender of the pc. In that game a male had the Handmaiden as a companion and a female had the Disciple. So, for example, if the DA3 pc was male, you would have a female hetro companion and a male gay companion, then for female pc's a male hetro companion and female gay companion. I doubt it would happen, but it would be a nice thing to have if possible.

Here I have to disagree, I don't think the NPC's should change based on what the PC is.  People are who they are.  Say, for example, if they just made Anders gay.  I think that playing a woman PC, I would get jipped out of knowing the real Anders if they just switched him for me.  What I would like to see is 2 hetero, 2 bi, 2 gay (but I won't hold my breath)

[esper]

rak72 wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
*snip*

My only real irritation with Isabela is that almost all of her sex talk involves men. While I don't think it makes her worse, it does make me worry that romancing her as a female Hawke would leave several needs unfulfilled unless the relationship was open, which is one reason I always go for Merrill.

This here is the main reason I am not the keenest on all LI's being bi. Like you say it kind of muddles her character a little when most (not all because she does talk about sleeping with women with Bethany) leans one direction. I prefer a more balanced mix in the LI's, one hetro, two bi, and one gay.  I think that kind of mix would provide a good dynamic in the companions. And although I don't think it would happen, but a system like KOTOR: TSL had where the two companions that were not bi could change based on the gender of the pc. In that game a male had the Handmaiden as a companion and a female had the Disciple. So, for example, if the DA3 pc was male, you would have a female hetro companion and a male gay companion, then for female pc's a male hetro companion and female gay companion. I doubt it would happen, but it would be a nice thing to have if possible.

Here I have to disagree, I don't think the NPC's should change based on what the PC is.  People are who they are.  Say, for example, if they just made Anders gay.  I think that playing a woman PC, I would get jipped out of knowing the real Anders if they just switched him for me.  What I would like to see is 2 hetero, 2 bi, 2 gay (but I won't hold my breath)

That is the best solution, but I doubt that bioware would seriously make six LI's (even if it would just be four for the male and female excluvisely). So as it is now I prefer the all bi solution.

Modifié par esper, 13 septembre 2011 - 03:25 .

[Xilizhra]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Morrigan for example was a very complex and dynamic character. Being hetro was a part of her persona, she was very believable and almost a living character, and if she had been available as a bi LI but no changes really in the writing of her character would have been a confusing and jumbled mess.

No, it... really wasn't. She never talks about only liking men, and really, the only thing male-specific about her romance path are a couple of pronoun uses in banter. Those could be fixed easily enough.

Well, there also is that awkward bit where she wwill end up asking a female Warden to father her demon child.....

Clearly the female Warden is packing something extra.

Seen, but I am guessing not heard.

So where are you talking about specifically?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 13 septembre 2011 - 03:39 .

[The Xand]

esper wrote...

That is the best solution, but I doubt that bioware would seriously make six LI's (even if it would just be four
for the male and female excluvisely). So as it is now I prefer the all bi solution.

I think that would be detrimental to the characters actually because of how they'd have to be written and how muddled it would get since the writers would have to make them fairly ambiguous, it would be better to have a balanced mix of those with set sexualities . It would certainly make playthroughs as different genders more varied and satisfying, ie by playing through as a female and seducing a hetro dude that only wanted to be mates with your male character.

Modifié par The Xand, 13 septembre 2011 - 03:31 .

[esper]

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...


[quote]Morrigan for example was a very complex and dynamic character. Being hetro was a part of her persona, she was very believable and almost a living character, and if she had been available as a bi LI but no changes really in the writing of her character would have been a confusing and jumbled mess.[/quote]
No, it... really wasn't. She never talks about only liking men, and really, the only thing male-specific about her romance path are a couple of pronoun uses in banter. Those could be fixed easily enough.[/quote]

Well, there also is that awkward bit where she wwill end up asking a female Warden to father her demon child.....

[/quote]
Clearly the female Warden is packing something extra.

[quote]Seen, but I am guessing not heard.[/quote[]
So where are you talking about specifically?[/quote]

If she asked you to father the demon baby I think you had a bug. I my games she asked my warden to persaude Alistar/Loghain because she knew they wouldn't listen to her.

[esper]

The Xand wrote...

esper wrote...

That is the best solution, but I doubt that bioware would seriously make six LI's (even if it would just be four
for the male and female excluvisely). So as it is now I prefer the all bi solution.

I think that would be detrimental to the characters actually because of how they'd have to be written and how muddled it would get since the writers would have to make them fairly ambiguous, it would be better to have a balanced mix of those with set sexualities . It would certainly make playthroughs as different genders more varied and satisfying, ie by playing through as a female and seducing a hetro dude that only wanted to be mates with your male character.

But you see the problem is that I can't play male when there is a female option. And that means that I am cheated out of knowing a really important charictar in da:o - that is Morrigan. She is so important to the plot that it just doesn't seem fair.

And I think that the characters in da2 were well written in that regard. There was sublte and less subtle differences between male characters romances and female characters romance that hinted that the sex did matter to the LI. So unless they do the 2 hetero, 2 bi and 2 gay thing (And the had to have the two gays with because otherwise it is cheating) I wastely prefer the way da2 did it.

[maxernst]

Rifneno wrote...

Straight male and I've done gay romances of both genders... there's not much difference, except in Anders case he tells you about Karl being more than just his mentor. Which I really think should have been told to all Hawkes since it helps put his character in perspective (people will get FAR more emotional about the loss of a lover than a mentor).

It's such a shame that in DA:O we weren't allowed to romance Alistair as a male so he could open up about his feelings for Duncan.

[Yuqi]

esper wrote...

The Xand wrote...

esper wrote...

That is the best solution, but I doubt that bioware would seriously make six LI's (even if it would just be four
for the male and female excluvisely). So as it is now I prefer the all bi solution.

I think that would be detrimental to the characters actually because of how they'd have to be written and how muddled it would get since the writers would have to make them fairly ambiguous, it would be better to have a balanced mix of those with set sexualities . It would certainly make playthroughs as different genders more varied and satisfying, ie by playing through as a female and seducing a hetro dude that only wanted to be mates with your male character.

But you see the problem is that I can't play male when there is a female option. And that means that I am cheated out of knowing a really important charictar in da:o - that is Morrigan. She is so important to the plot that it just doesn't seem fair.

 

Lets not forget playing as a female,also meant you couldn't go through the mirrior with morrigan in witch hunt.That pissed me off so bad..

I noticed the subtle moments too..

maxernst wrote...


It's such a shame that in DA:O we weren't allowed to romance Alistair as a male so he could open up about his feelings for Duncan.

Lol:D

Modifié par Yuqi, 13 septembre 2011 - 04:27 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

esper wrote...

If she asked you to father the demon baby I think you had a bug. I my games she asked my warden to persaude Alistar/Loghain because she knew they wouldn't listen to her.

No, this is using the Equal love mod, which changes your gender flags to Morrigan and Alistair, making Alistair think the male warden is a female, and thus, romanceable by men. And Morrigan will think the female warden is male, thus allowing a female to romance her.

The dialogues are unchanged, only gender flags. Which is why Morrigan ends up asking the female warden to impregnate her, if using this mod.

[Naqey]

Actually yes, DA2 was my first game in which I really "went gay" (that is, rolling a male character first). But mostly because I immediately fell in love with the preset male Hawke; usually I always play female characters. But I only did so *because* I knew there would be gay romances (I'm just too much into the guys).

This fact and this thread in general just made me realize what a long way we have come... retracing all the "pc game romance history" (I still remember playing my first male character *ever* in Jade Empire because I was so thrilled when I found that Sky could be gay)...

I for my part am very happy with the 4bi solution... It just somehow fits... with all the characters. Nevertheless, I'm perfectly fine with having  hetero only companions (granted there are other options too) if their character is like that (Alistair being a case in point; I just don't see him as... "manloving"). The real cool thing to do, as a next step, would surely be an all ****** character. Preferably male (but that's only me speaking). Kind of like... Juhani in Kotor.

Modifié par Naqey, 13 septembre 2011 - 05:01 .

[mousestalker]

I think from a marketing and production standpoint it makes more sense (is cost effective) to have romanceable characters be bi.

It also occurs to me that if certain posters had as much stamina in bed as they do on the forums, then they would never need worry about finding sexual partners of whatever preference again.

But I'm just a halla.

[The Xand]

maxernst wrote...

It's such a shame that in DA:O we
weren't allowed to romance Alistair as a male so he could open up about
his feelings for Duncan.

I always thought Alistair should have been romanceable. He seemed kind of ghey, and the Templars seemed like they'd be all repressed sexually.

mousestalker wrote...

It also occurs to me that if certain posters had as much stamina in bed as they do on the forums, then they would never need worry about finding sexual partners of whatever preference again.

But I'm just a halla.

What the hell babe, I haven't posted in like forever. And no, I'm atrocious in bed :'(

Also if you're a halla then the Dalish in DA 2 could probably use you since they have none.

Modifié par The Xand, 13 septembre 2011 - 07:21 .

[whykikyouwhy]

@The Xand - Perhaps you should refrain from referring to people as "babe" (especially people you may not know well). And that's not said out of any "radical feminism" - it's guidance regarding courtesy.

[jlb524]

To elaborate on a post I made earlier in this thread, I personally feel as if BW romances (either hetero-only or bisexual) are written for the PC and not for the male or female PC.

Like, I hear some say 'X romance was written for a male PC and the female bi romance seems tacked on' or 'X romance was written for a female PC and the male bi romance seems tacked on' etc.  Or, I hear things like 'Morrigan's romance just couldn't work with a female PC'.

Using ME2 as an example, it seemed that those romances for the most part were written for Shepard the character (former Spectre, galactic badass hero, etc.) and not male or female Shepard but they had a gender check that simply limited the content to the o/s Shepard (which I personally think is dumb).

I'd say even the majority of Morrigan's romance is like this with gender mattering at the DR scene b/c it has to matter given the situation.  However, this gendered situation is romance-exclusive as the same decision occurs with non-Morrigan romancing males as well.

Using Merrill's DA2 romance (as it's the only one I've completed) I'd say it's written for 'Hawke' the person; the human that helped her out during her inital move to Kirkwall and befriended her over time, becoming her first real friend and then possibly supporting her decision to leave her clan and fix the mirror (or tries to look out for her and ensure she doesn't harm herself).  That's the most important part of the romance dynamic, not the PC's gender.  I'm not sure why it has to be...same can be said with the PC's class.  This seems to be the case with the majority of BW's romances.  Of course, there are pronoun differences or a few lines have a different 'flavor' with a female PC vs. a male PC, but the core romance feels gender-neutral.  Basically, I'm not sure why people make a fuss over 'gendered romances'...I'm not even sure what they mean by that.  It almost seems as if this is being used as justification to argue against including more s/s romance content.