236 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Krytie]

....double post, sorry.

Modifié par Darth Krytie, 14 septembre 2011 - 02:59 .

[Zanallen]

I am a straight male and I almost always play a straight male protagonist. In the odd event that I play a female character, she is usually a lesbian.

[Boiny Bunny]

Sheesh - looks like I opened a can of worms with my comment about double standards and sexism.

If it's going to be discussed, it's probably a good idea to avoid generalising too much about what exactly constitutes a 'feminist' view - bear in mind that there are many schools of thought when it comes to feminism - some more extreme than others.

@The Xand: I disagree entirely with your assertion that anybody, of either gender, who enjoyed sex, had a lot of it, and talked about it in a somewhat crude though joking manner often, would be looked down upon by others.

In my own experience, men within groups of men cheer one another on for this kind of behaviour, and pretend to look down upon it when women are also present. A woman amongst women is, again, in my experience, far more likely to be looked down upon for this kind of behaviour.

Which was really, the starting point for my original comment.

Society as a whole tends to put a very negative slant on women and sex, where there is more than a single partner. I don't think that this is a male-driven problem however - but rather a society driven problem. Indeed, I've experienced women giving other women a far harder time than men would do for being sexually promiscuous.

We've been a patriarchal society for so many hundreds of years that it is quite difficult to immediately unwind cetain customs and views about a variety of things that are implicitly sexist, but not necessarily recognised as such.

Another example is a woman changing her name to that of her husband should she marry. In most Western society, it is expected that this will happen, and should it not, both the man and the woman are prone to negative social commentary from others (e.g. "I can see who is wearing the pants in this relationship"). But, it's tradition. So much so, that not many actually really think about it as being unfair on a woman to potentially lose part of her self identity (or simply accept a name that she does not like).

At any rate, in my opinion, Isabela is definately a little more crass than Zevran in her discussions of sex - that's not the point though. If Isabela had been a male character, I believe that (s)he would be receiving positive social commentary for sleeping around with so many. That is the double standard.

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 14 septembre 2011 - 03:35 .

[Jonathan Seagull]

To chime in on the "what gender/orientation do I generally romance" side of the discussion, I like to mix it up. It did actually turn out that both of my canon characters (Warden and Hawke) were gay males, but that was largely because I just couldn't resist romancing Anders. But I also had male Wardens that romanced Morrigan and Leliana, plus a female that romanced Alistair. In DA2, I also had a male that romanced Isabela, and a female that romanced Sebastian (limited though it was). I plan to also have a female that romances Fenris.

Currently the only romanceable character that I'm not planning on checking out is Merrill. Nothing against her, I just don't think it fits with any of the character concepts I'm currently planning. That's not to say I'll never do it, especially since I've just realized I've never done a f/f romance.

On the topic of NPCs being bi, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, everyone (of the main romance options) in DA2 being bi seemed a bit too...neat? But on the other hand, I really appreciate the aspect of inclusion that came with that. Whereas with DAO, from a realism standpoint part of me appreciated the fact that some companions were just straight, because sometimes people are just straight (or gay). On the other hand, another part of me spent a good portion of my first playthrough as a male character waiting for Alistair confess his feelings for me, and was of course disappointed when I realized that wasn't going to happen.

I think ideally, as someone else noted upthread, there would be a couple of straight love interests, a couple of gay love interests, and a couple of bi love interests. I'm not sure that BioWare would want to deal with more than four full romances, but it might be nice.

Modifié par Jonathan Seagull, 14 septembre 2011 - 03:55 .

[Andraste_Reborn]

I think ideally, as someone else noted upthread, there would be a couple of straight love interests, a couple of gay love interests, and a couple of bi love interests. I'm not sure that BioWare would want to deal with more than four full romances, but it might be nice.

I think this would be great solution, but I can't see it happening without the individual romances getting considerably less content as a result. There just aren't enough zots to make six romances per game with the kind of content we got in DAO and DA2. Not to mention that with DA2 we already have a situation where more than half of your companions are romanceable. If BioWare stick to around ten companions per DA game, six romances would seem like an awful lot.

There's also the fact that fewer people choose the same-sex options. (How many fewer, I don't know, but according to BioWare this is the case.) That makes it less likely that the game developers will want to make gay companions, knowing that not as many players would experience that content. (I suspect this is the reason we have no romanceable dwarves, as well.)

Given all of the above, I think having most or all of the romance options be bisexual is the best and fairest solution available at the moment.

[berelinde]

Not getting involved in the social commentary since I'm not really sure RL social customs can be applied to a fantasy setting.

So far, I've played straight females, gay males, bi males, and one straight male. My favorite Hawke is a bi male who winds up with Anders. In DA2, it was very pleasant having four wonderful LIs to choose from. I couldn't decide which character concept to try first, and the ability to romance any LI with any PC has definitely contributed to the replay value of the game. Although I did enjoy DA:O very, very much, my indifference toward Morrigan and active dislike of Leliana meant that I was limited to playing a straight female romancing Alistair or a gay male romancing Zevran.

[Xewaka]

The Xand wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Which is odd because I found DA2 compansions generally more interesting and easier to relate to than Origins ones... anyway, there may have been a dialogue hiccup there. But it doesn't make the system itself bad.

Admit it. You fancied Varric.

I thought "Fancying Varric" was the default for anyone who played DA 2.

[GhostlyMaiden]

I'm an asexual female that usually plays pansexual females. The female mainly because I find the female form generally more attractive. The pansexuality simply because sex does not bother me at all, thus watching a pair of gays getting it on is no different than watching a pair of straights getting it on. Frankly, I don't even "get" most of these stereotypes or why they're such a big deal in the first place. I enjoy doing romances, because it opens up opportunities to develop my characters.

My main warden in DA:O was a city elf highly devoted to her family and had a dutiful and serious air about her, which she would then apply to the grey wardens. Later, after she gets involved with Zevran, she loosens up and jokes more often. Similar situation with my main Hawke. Her whole family ends up dead, so she turns her attention to her companions. Fenris, Anders, and Merrill in particular. Interesting enough, Fenris ends up becoming her rock by endgame. The only thing keeping her from going over the edge after Last Straw: "All these years and this city has taken everything away from me! Let it burn for all I care! Let the mages have their revolution! I am through!" Needless to say, she mellowed out when I re-did Act 3 to keep Fenris. She's still bitter, but she's far less homicidal now.

The only things that irk me in romance scenes for this game is the PC's size changing to better "fit" the models in the scene and the disappearing/reappearing weapons.

[MrNose]

leggywillow wrote...

Dragon Age 2 is actually the first game in which I've successfully completed a homosexual relationship.  (I almost exclusively use female PCs, and so far the Bioware s/s options for females never appealed to me at all... Leliana and Liara ::shudder:

I have a Lady Hawke/Isabela and it's awesome.

I don't think you get any dialogue acknowledging a homosexual relationship in DA2.  IIRC, it's not really a huge deal in Thedas.  Most people view it like "well that's kinda quirky but whatever", I think.  I'm pretty sure that Anders has the most reference to it.

DA2 is both my first time completing a run with another gender (I'm a straight guy, used a LadyHawke), and my first time doing a homosexual relationship (I also romanced Isabela).  I romanced her simply because I liked her best as a character, and thought it was pretty cool how no one really cared about orientation.

Anyway!  The only dialogue acknowledging a homosexual relationship that I've seen is from Gamlen... 



The man is not exactly the picture of class eh?

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

MrNose wrote...




The man is not exactly the picture of class eh?

Which is part of the reason Gamlen is one of my favorite NPCs in the game. He is unashamedly a complete lowlife. And never tries to hide the fact.

[rak72]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

MrNose wrote...




The man is not exactly the picture of class eh?

Which is part of the reason Gamlen is one of my favorite NPCs in the game. He is unashamedly a complete lowlife. And never tries to hide the fact.

I'd take Gamlen over the whinny, stuck up mom any day.

[Monica21]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

MrNose wrote...




The man is not exactly the picture of class eh?

Which is part of the reason Gamlen is one of my favorite NPCs in the game. He is unashamedly a complete lowlife. And never tries to hide the fact.

And he has Teagan's voice! 

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

rak72 wrote...

I'd take Gamlen over the whinny, stuck up mom any day.

You and me both. I wonder why we couldn't move Gamlen out of lowtown and into the Amell estate. he would have been more fun to click on than Mom. Come to think of it, Gamlen was about the only family member I never had the urge to punch.

[Xilizhra]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

rak72 wrote...

I'd take Gamlen over the whinny, stuck up mom any day.

You and me both. I wonder why we couldn't move Gamlen out of lowtown and into the Amell estate. he would have been more fun to click on than Mom. Come to think of it, Gamlen was about the only family member I never had the urge to punch.

I like Leandra. The only person I ever remember her whining at was Gamlen, who quite frankly deserved it. And her children were always her primary concern.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Monica21 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

MrNose wrote...




The man is not exactly the picture of class eh?

Which is part of the reason Gamlen is one of my favorite NPCs in the game. He is unashamedly a complete lowlife. And never tries to hide the fact.

And he has Teagan's voice! 

Does he? Really? OMG...I did not know it. I always felt a little creepy because I found Gamlen a touch sexy for some reason, but I think I know why now, if he has the same VA as Teagan....:wub:

[rak72]

Xilizhra wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

rak72 wrote...

I'd take Gamlen over the whinny, stuck up mom any day.

You and me both. I wonder why we couldn't move Gamlen out of lowtown and into the Amell estate. he would have been more fun to click on than Mom. Come to think of it, Gamlen was about the only family member I never had the urge to punch.

I like Leandra. The only person I ever remember her whining at was Gamlen, who quite frankly deserved it. And her children were always her primary concern.

If her children were her primary concern, she wouldn't insist on staying in Templar Central with her apostate child just because she wants her noble status back.  She's freeloading off of Gamlen who is barly scraping by & she jumps down his throat when he asks her to chip in for rent.  He aranges for the family to enter Kirkwall, and she jumps down his throat for the "year of servitude".  Like strangers are suppose to pay her way because she is the great Leandra Amell. 

[happy_daiz]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Monica21 wrote...
And he has Teagan's voice! 

Does he? Really? OMG...I did not know it. I always felt a little creepy because I found Gamlen a touch sexy for some reason, but I think I know why now, if he has the same VA as Teagan....:wub:

I never knew that, either, and I had the same reaction to him! 

In my one male Hawke playthrough, my PC had a ponytail, and strangely enough, so did Gamlen. He looks kinda hot with a ponytail. 

[Xilizhra]

If her children were her primary concern, she wouldn't insist on staying in Templar Central with her apostate child just because she wants her noble status back. She's freeloading off of Gamlen who is barly scraping by & she jumps down his throat when he asks her to chip in for rent. He aranges for the family to enter Kirkwall, and she jumps down his throat for the "year of servitude". Like strangers are suppose to pay her way because she is the great Leandra Amell.

She didn't really have a choice; it was the only spot where they, as penniless refugees, would be guaranteed any kind of place to live. And Gamlen only has to pay her way because he stole and then sold the estate.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

happy_daiz wrote...


I never knew that, either, and I had the same reaction to him! 

In my one male Hawke playthrough, my PC had a ponytail, and strangely enough, so did Gamlen. He looks kinda hot with a ponytail. 

Damnit, Bioware. Stop assigning sexy voice actors to characters that are supposed to be close genetic relatives. Especially when they are supposed to be lowlife relations. And given them hideous revolting troll faces, please.

The fact that same sex romance exists in the game does not bother me in the slightest. What bothers me is that I am finding relatives more sexy than most available LI's. That's just disturbing.

[Xilizhra]

The fact that same sex romance exists in the game does not bother me in the slightest. What bothers me is that I am finding relatives more sexy than most available LI's. That's just disturbing.

I used to have that problem with Bethany, except I didn't find it disturbing because I'm perverted.

[rak72]

Xilizhra wrote...

If her children were her primary concern, she wouldn't insist on staying in Templar Central with her apostate child just because she wants her noble status back. She's freeloading off of Gamlen who is barly scraping by & she jumps down his throat when he asks her to chip in for rent. He aranges for the family to enter Kirkwall, and she jumps down his throat for the "year of servitude". Like strangers are suppose to pay her way because she is the great Leandra Amell.

She didn't really have a choice; it was the only spot where they, as penniless refugees, would be guaranteed any kind of place to live. And Gamlen only has to pay her way because he stole and then sold the estate.

He stayed behind and wipped their parent's butts.  He's entitled to whatever he got.

[Xilizhra]

rak72 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If her children were her primary concern, she wouldn't insist on staying in Templar Central with her apostate child just because she wants her noble status back. She's freeloading off of Gamlen who is barly scraping by & she jumps down his throat when he asks her to chip in for rent. He aranges for the family to enter Kirkwall, and she jumps down his throat for the "year of servitude". Like strangers are suppose to pay her way because she is the great Leandra Amell.

She didn't really have a choice; it was the only spot where they, as penniless refugees, would be guaranteed any kind of place to live. And Gamlen only has to pay her way because he stole and then sold the estate.

He stayed behind and wipped their parent's butts.  He's entitled to whatever he got.

That was his parents' decision, not his.

[happy_daiz]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...


I never knew that, either, and I had the same reaction to him! 

In my one male Hawke playthrough, my PC had a ponytail, and strangely enough, so did Gamlen. He looks kinda hot with a ponytail. 

Damnit, Bioware. Stop assigning sexy voice actors to characters that are supposed to be close genetic relatives. Especially when they are supposed to be lowlife relations. And given them hideous revolting troll faces, please.

The fact that same sex romance exists in the game does not bother me in the slightest. What bothers me is that I am finding relatives more sexy than most available LI's. That's just disturbing.

Exactly! In the case I was describing, my male Hawke was awfully pretty for a guy. Gamlen looked a lot like him, actually. Pretty. I ended  up switching Hawke back to the default, because I got tired of his face. It just didn't seem right. In that same playthrough, I got hideous Bethany (pink eyeshadow), but pretty Gamlen. Actually, Leandra looked exactly like Bethany normally does, only older. Weird.

After that debacle, I now wait to customize Hawke's appearance until getting to the Black Emporium. That way, I no longer have to worry about getting weird results, or too-hot relatives. Was it just me, or did anyone else find Carver to be hot? 

Modifié par happy_daiz, 14 septembre 2011 - 06:23 .

[Cutlass Jack]

rak72 wrote...

He stayed behind and wipped their parent's butts.  He's entitled to whatever he got.

He deserved every bit of crap he got. (pardon the pun) Not for stealing the estate and squandering it, (I'm sympathetic) but for making his sister think her parents died hating her. That part I have a hard time forgiving.

It was never about the money. She'd have gone back years earlier if that were the case.

[alex90c]

happy_daiz wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...


I never knew that, either, and I had the same reaction to him! 

In my one male Hawke playthrough, my PC had a ponytail, and strangely enough, so did Gamlen. He looks kinda hot with a ponytail. 

Damnit, Bioware. Stop assigning sexy voice actors to characters that are supposed to be close genetic relatives. Especially when they are supposed to be lowlife relations. And given them hideous revolting troll faces, please.

The fact that same sex romance exists in the game does not bother me in the slightest. What bothers me is that I am finding relatives more sexy than most available LI's. That's just disturbing.

Exactly! In the case I was describing, my male Hawke was awfully pretty for a guy. Gamlen looked a lot like him, actually. Pretty. I ended  up switching Hawke back to the default, because I got tired of his face. It just didn't seem right. In that same playthrough, I got hideous Bethany (pink eyeshadow), but pretty Gamlen. Actually, Leandra looked exactly like Bethany normally does, only older. Weird.

After that debacle, I now wait to customize Hawke's appearance until getting to the Black Emporium. That way, I no longer have to worry about getting weird results, or too-hot relatives. Was it just me, or did anyone else find Carver to be hot? 

Indeed. His whining was quite a turn-on.

I joke, I joke