48 réponses à ce sujet

[DoNotIngest]

It's scary how perv'd people can be. Think I'll go hug a puppy for a while.

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 09 septembre 2011 - 06:49 .

[Wulfram]

• Merrill: You've had many lovers, haven't you?
• Isabela: Fewer than some think.
• Merrill: But you never stay with them.
• Isabela: No, why should I?
• Merrill: But the act of lovemaking is so... intimate.
• Isabela: I don't "make love." What I do is only skin-deep, Kitten.
• Isabela: Don't worry your pretty little head about it.

[TanyaT]

Found the Dragon Age wiki quotes?

there's some crackers in there Isabela and Merrill

[whykikyouwhy]

@DoNotIngest - I'm uncertain as to what is "perv'd" here since we're talking about two adult consenting women having a hypothetical tryst, but ok.

@Wulfram - Again, I think that Merrill may not need the *romantic* love to have sex, especially if some degree of love and affection already exists, which I think most here will agree on in the very least.

[jlb524]

dewayne31 wrote...

After listening to their banter in legacy. I get the feeling izzy been teaching Merrill alot of dirty things. Does anyone else get that impression

I hope so.

Izzy taught my poor virgin Hawke plenty of things, that's for sure.

Wulfram wrote...

Isabela would never hurt Merril, and she knows that sleeping with Merrill without being in love with her would end up hurting her.

I dunno if we know enough to say that and one banter isn't enough.  Also, body-shots.

Besides, Hawke can sleep with Merrill, kick her to the curb but Merrill seems to bounce back from it and isn't CRUSHED 4EVA!!!!

Modifié par jlb524, 09 septembre 2011 - 07:44 .

[elearon1]

I don't know if they have ... but I'd like to *imagine* they have.

[Knight of Dane]

Isabela is frighdened that she might hurt someone, she not afraid of love but of being loved. What's between her and Merrill has the potential of great suffering, i don't see her moving on Merrill in any way, it just doesn't fit.

[berelinde]

I get a kind of "big sister" vibe from Isabela when talking to Merrill. She loves her, no doubt about it, but it's a protective, platonic love, not a sexual one. Once again, Isabela is a lot deeper than haters give her credit for.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I brought both of them on the trip to the Deep Roads the second time I played Legacy. Nothing that I recall that I saw suggested a sexual relationship between them. Especially since I was in a romance with Isabella that time around.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 10 septembre 2011 - 08:29 .

[mousestalker]

Sex is not necessarily pervy. If you find sex pervy and that is off-putting to you, then you are doing it wrong. Try having sex in a different manner. If it still seems pervy and you still don't like it, then keep trying until you get it right.

As for Izzy and Merrill, there's no reason why they shouldn't. Merrill associates sex with commitment, but she might be persuaded to overlook the point for experimental reasons. Izzy does show genuine affection for Merrill. She might not want to couple with her simply because she wouldn't want Merrill hurt.

They're grown up characters and they are written and played as adults. That's what makes them interesting.

Modifié par mousestalker, 10 septembre 2011 - 01:24 .

[Heidenreich]

berelinde wrote...

I get a kind of "big sister" vibe from Isabela when talking to Merrill. She loves her, no doubt about it, but it's a protective, platonic love, not a sexual one. Once again, Isabela is a lot deeper than haters give her credit for.

This.

I never get the impression that the two sleep together. Ever, even. Isabela is like Merrill's big sister, and at the end of the day, Bela would sooner kill you then let you hurt Merrill. That doesn't mean she can't teach her about being sexual and sensual, it just means she never personally sleeps with her.

There's just to much care there for Bela to cross that line.

[whykikyouwhy]

Heidenreich wrote...

berelinde wrote...

I get a kind of "big sister" vibe from Isabela when talking to Merrill. She loves her, no doubt about it, but it's a protective, platonic love, not a sexual one. Once again, Isabela is a lot deeper than haters give her credit for.

This.

I never get the impression that the two sleep together. Ever, even. Isabela is like Merrill's big sister, and at the end of the day, Bela would sooner kill you then let you hurt Merrill. That doesn't mean she can't teach her about being sexual and sensual, it just means she never personally sleeps with her.

There's just to much care there for Bela to cross that line.

The vibe I'm getting here from folks keeping to the track of "Isabela would never hurt Merrill" is that Isabela would have to be an aggressor, or make the proposition for sex. And since Isabela has genuine affection for Merrill, she would never pose the suggestion because she doesn't want to break the elf's heart. Is that a correct analysis?

Here's how I see it:

 - Merrill may want to have sex with Isabela. It's a viable possibility because: 1. Isabela is hawt. 2. Isabela would not break her heart and therefore that one evening or morning or afternoon of pleasure would be just that - pleasure, with an undertone of love and affection. 3. Isabela may have some tricks to share, so it would be educational.

 - Because of the above, Merrill could just as easily and readily proposition Isabela. Why not? Merrill can be exceptionally forward sometimes.

 - Isabela may readily accept the proposition because Merrill is asking and she wouldn't deny Merrill anything. Does that mean that Isabela would be hurting her by jumping into bed? No. I think the two of them would be able to have a strong understanding as to the parameters of any tryst.

Merrill is not in love with Isabela. She adores her, admires her, wants in some ways to be like her, but it's akin to hero worship. She's enough of a mature individual to not confuse that with love. So if Merrill wants to have sex with someone, and knows that long term romantic committment need not be involved, why shouldn't she embrace that? Why should she be denied her desires, if indeed desires exist? 

For me, it's not so difficult to see that Merrill would want someone. Maybe it clashes against her "innocent puppy dog" persona that people attach to her, and that she does possess to some degree, but she is a deeper individual than that.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 10 septembre 2011 - 01:35 .

[TobiTobsen]

I have no problem imagining that Izzy at least gave her some tips and tricks or even showed her in person AND I have no problem believing that Merrill could be the one that would raise the subject.

She is already asking 'Bela for dirty stories, even longs for them. She sneaks into Anders clinic and rummages thorugh his spellbooks to find some "dirty" spells. So why shouldn't she ask her best friend, who is kind of an expert for sex, for some advice?
And we all know learning by doing always works better

[Wulfram]

I don't assume that Isabela would be the aggressor, but I do assume that Merrill would want love rather than just sex, because (IMO) that is how she is characterised in the game

I don't think that particularly makes her a delicate blushing flower, or an innocent puppy dog.

[whykikyouwhy]

Wulfram wrote...

I don't assume that Isabela would be the aggressor, but I do assume that Merrill would want love rather than just sex, because (IMO) that is how she is characterised in the game

I don't think that particularly makes her a delicate blushing flower, or an innocent puppy dog.

This whole thing really does break down to a matter of opinion, and that's fine. The OP asked if there was something physical between the two characters and we have those who think it's possible and those who are diametrically opposed to it, for various reasons.

I think Merrill has been characterized as guileless in the game - as subscribing to all sorts of romantic notions. Rainbows, flowers, griffons named "Feathers"...and she thus seems to want a romantic relationship - love that has committment and dedication and probably some riding off into the sunset for good measure. But, through various conversations, we see that she has a dirty mind - she is not ignorant of sex and sexual things. She doesn't talk about it much personally, at least not about her own trysts (with the exception of a few off-hand remarks about Hawke) because that's not her personality, but she is very much interested in hearing about the affairs of others, and is equally concerned that she missed a juicy detail because humans are so darn troublesome with their constant use of innuendo.

I guess, for me, I don't see her as being adverse to sex without committment simply because she may want a romantic relationship down the line and that is what she aspires to. So too, I wouldn't characterize sex with Isabela as "sex without love." There is love there. Isabela loves and adores Merrill like no one else in the game. Is it romantic love? No, probably not. But it is love filled with respect and tenderness, which can be pretty darn powerful.

Merrill wanting sex could be just that - she has desires that may be independent of lofty dreams of romance. Carnal inclinations and the like - an itch she needs to scratch. Even characterized as someone who wants the big grand package of cherubs singing over her head and fluffy hearts materializing out of the sky, she may just want to have a tumble now and again.

Which is why it makes sense with Isabela - because that love/respect is present, because Isabela is her friend and someone she could trust enough to be that primal with perhaps, because Isabela is not going to hurt her, and because Isabela is not going to pin her down to a committment if she (Isabela) is not the object of Merrills' romantic desires.

So, this is an area where people will clearly disagree, and that's cool. But I think that sex with love can exist without "romance" attached to it.

[Knight of Dane]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I don't assume that Isabela would be the aggressor, but I do assume that Merrill would want love rather than just sex, because (IMO) that is how she is characterised in the game

I don't think that particularly makes her a delicate blushing flower, or an innocent puppy dog.

This whole thing really does break down to a matter of opinion, and that's fine. The OP asked if there was something physical between the two characters and we have those who think it's possible and those who are diametrically opposed to it, for various reasons.

I think Merrill has been characterized as guileless in the game - as subscribing to all sorts of romantic notions. Rainbows, flowers, griffons named "Feathers"...and she thus seems to want a romantic relationship - love that has committment and dedication and probably some riding off into the sunset for good measure. But, through various conversations, we see that she has a dirty mind - she is not ignorant of sex and sexual things. She doesn't talk about it much personally, at least not about her own trysts (with the exception of a few off-hand remarks about Hawke) because that's not her personality, but she is very much interested in hearing about the affairs of others, and is equally concerned that she missed a juicy detail because humans are so darn troublesome with their constant use of innuendo.

I guess, for me, I don't see her as being adverse to sex without committment simply because she may want a romantic relationship down the line and that is what she aspires to. So too, I wouldn't characterize sex with Isabela as "sex without love." There is love there. Isabela loves and adores Merrill like no one else in the game. Is it romantic love? No, probably not. But it is love filled with respect and tenderness, which can be pretty darn powerful.

Merrill wanting sex could be just that - she has desires that may be independent of lofty dreams of romance. Carnal inclinations and the like - an itch she needs to scratch. Even characterized as someone who wants the big grand package of cherubs singing over her head and fluffy hearts materializing out of the sky, she may just want to have a tumble now and again.

Which is why it makes sense with Isabela - because that love/respect is present, because Isabela is her friend and someone she could trust enough to be that primal with perhaps, because Isabela is not going to hurt her, and because Isabela is not going to pin her down to a committment if she (Isabela) is not the object of Merrills' romantic desires.

So, this is an area where people will clearly disagree, and that's cool. But I think that sex with love can exist without "romance" attached to it.

There is a difference between curiosity and a directly dirty mind. Merrill comes from a enviroment where i assume they don't practice such openness abotu sexuality, at least Cammen gave me that vibe in DA:O.
That Merrill is interested to get to know about sexuality from an older, more attractive and more experienced woman just shows that Merrill has a overall curiosity for the unknown. The sexual talking is like the dalish History, it need to be discovered, but that doesn't mean she sleeps with Isabela, it just doesn't meld.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 10 septembre 2011 - 04:38 .

[jlb524]

Wulfram wrote...

I don't assume that Isabela would be the aggressor, but I do assume that Merrill would want love rather than just sex, because (IMO) that is how she is characterised in the game

I don't think that particularly makes her a delicate blushing flower, or an innocent puppy dog.

Merrill's aggressive with Hawke and jumps in bed with her not knowing if it will lead to "the big grand package of cherubs singing over her head and fluffy hearts materializing out of the sky" (to steal whykikyouwhy's phrase).

Knight of Dane wrote...

There is a difference between curiosity and a directly dirty mind. Merrill comes from a enviroment where i assume they don't practice such openness abotu sexuality, at least Cammen gave me that vibe in DA:O.  That Merrill is interested to get to know about sexuality from an older, more attractive and more experienced woman just shows that Merrill has a overall curiosity for the unknown. The sexual talking is like the dalish History, it need to be discovered, but that doesn't mean she sleeps with Isabela, it just doesn't meld.

Separated from her clan for the first time (and out from under Marethari's constant shadow) Merrill is going through a period of self-discovery and personal growth.   I think coupling that with a curiously dirty mind could lead to some experimentation.  I agree with whykikyouwhy that Isabela would be the safest bet given their aren't romantic feelings involved to muddle it all up.  Merrill wouldn't want to experiment with Hawke considering she has got the total hots for her.  Isabela is also someone Merrill trusts and admires.

I don't know about the Dalish lore analogy you use...that would be akin to Merrill being satisfied with simply reading about eluvians but not actually trying to put one back together (which she does)...Merrill's hands on in that regard.

*pun intended*

Modifié par jlb524, 10 septembre 2011 - 05:13 .

[Wulfram]

jlb524 wrote...

Merrill's aggressive with Hawke and jumps in bed with her not knowing if it will lead to "the big grand package of cherubs singing over her head and fluffy hearts materializing out of the sky" (to steal whykikyouwhy's phrase).

I think it's pretty clear what sort of relationship Merrill is looking for before she jumps into bed with Hawke, and afterwards she declares her love for Hawke at the first opportunity, and, I believe, ends the relationship if it isn't reciprocated.

[jlb524]

Wulfram wrote...

I think it's pretty clear what sort of relationship Merrill is looking for before she jumps into bed with Hawke, and afterwards she declares her love for Hawke at the first opportunity, and, I believe, ends the relationship if it isn't reciprocated.

Yes, Merrill wants romance and love from Hawke but doesn't know what Hawke wants at that point and thus doesn't know what type of relationship it will lead to afterwards.

She still has sex with Hawke regardless.  It seems as if you were saying that Merrill won't have sex period until she's knowingly in a romantic love based relationship with someone, which is untrue.

[Wulfram]

jlb524 wrote...

It seems as if you were saying that Merrill won't have sex period until she's knowingly in a romantic love based relationship with someone, which is untrue.

Well, I'm not saying that.  I'm saying that I think she wouldn't have sex without the hope of love, and without love on her part

Merrill might approach Isabela.  But Isabela would say no.

[whykikyouwhy]

Perhaps...

I'm inclined to think that Isabela would say yes, depending on the situation. If Merrill wanted to learn some new ways to cup someone's Joining, Isabela would probably agree. If Merrill were to make the proposition for some sexytimes while drunk and in her cups, Isabela would probably politely refuse (then tuck Merrill up in a fuzzy blanket).

Like most matters of the sexual and/or affectionate nature, it's all about how it's approached, what mindset both parties are in, and what the expectations are. Granted, I used two broad examples, but I really believe there would be plenty of cause for Isabela to go for it, as it were, in the right circumstances. (Not to mention that Merrill might know that lightning trick.)

[jlb524]

Wulfram wrote...

Merrill might approach Isabela.  But Isabela would say no.

Wait, this is the same Isabela that offered to teach Merrill how to do body shots?

I agree with whykikyouwhy (again) in that it would be situational.

If Merrill was upset/drunk/etc. and approached Isabela, then Isabela would refuse in that situation.

If Merrill approached her for purely academic reasons, that's quite different.

[hoorayforicecream]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Perhaps...

I'm inclined to think that Isabela would say yes, depending on the situation. If Merrill wanted to learn some new ways to cup someone's Joining, Isabela would probably agree. If Merrill were to make the proposition for some sexytimes while drunk and in her cups, Isabela would probably politely refuse (then tuck Merrill up in a fuzzy blanket).

Like most matters of the sexual and/or affectionate nature, it's all about how it's approached, what mindset both parties are in, and what the expectations are. Granted, I used two broad examples, but I really believe there would be plenty of cause for Isabela to go for it, as it were, in the right circumstances. (Not to mention that Merrill might know that lightning trick.)

Pretty much this. Not everyone looks for emotional intimacy at all times when it comes to sex. Sometimes it's just about being comforted, or sharing a moment with someone. Merrill is not immune to such moments. Like I said earlier, I would probably see it as a one-time thing and not an ongoing relationship, but given that it's Isabela, I don't think there's much she'd never do.

[Maria Caliban]

Zjarcal wrote...

Sex between them is inevitable...

Shipping culture boiled down to one phrase. No matter how odd the pairing, the sex is inevitable.

Wulfram wrote...

I don't assume that Isabela would be the aggressor, but I do assume that Merrill would want love rather than just sex, because (IMO) that is how she is characterised in the game

I don't think that particularly makes her a delicate blushing flower, or an innocent puppy dog.

Yeah. Casual sex is fine, but the idea that not wanting casual sex means you're a 'delicate, blushing flower' is all sorts of strange. One can be lusty and desire emotional intimacy with a sex partner.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 10 septembre 2011 - 08:20 .