269 réponses à ce sujet

[Alexnssilent]

Them straight folk getting lots of flak, I think it's time to shoot back...If we were all in Kenya, the people would fix this...simply...trunk and firewood...lots of gasoline and some ropes, and a good show for everyone to see! what? too soon?

[Unionhack]

ladyvader wrote...

First off there is no Shepard canon. BioWare has said this already. Every Shepard is different. To think that is folly in the nth degree.

Secondly, if you want your Shepard to remain a hetrosexual, then play it that way. No one is forcing you to make your Shepard to be bi/gay.

Chylise wrote...

Or you could just not flirt with people
of the same sex, seeing as romantic relationships won't start unless
Shepard initiates them.

If they do things like they did in DA2, you may not be singing the same tune. The potentially gay companions practically threw themselves on you if you were a male Hawke, and one misplaced click on the wheel could get you locked into an awkward scene with an elf in a brothel.

[whywhywhywhy]

Major Badass wrote...

A lot of people are unhappy that Commander Sheperd, the male version in particular, is now bi-curious. While a few people may oppose this based on irrational homophobia, the vast majority of fans are concerned primarily by the effect on Mass Effect's backstory. This is a major upset, given that the male Shepard was completely straight in the first two games, but there is a way to respect the wishes of those who want their Shepard to be gay while at the same time maintaining the character's canon:

Include sexual orientation in character creation, at the very beginning of the game, with the option to be Heterosexual, Homosexual, or Bisexual. Those who select a heterosexual Shepard would only have access to romance options of the opposite gender, homosexual characters would only have access to their own gender, and bisexual Shepards could do both.

Instituting the option to have a completely straight character would allow the Commander Shepard of Mass Effect 3 canon to remain heterosexual, just as in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. At the same time, players who wanted to pursue gay romances in-game would be able to do so without disrupting the backstory, and those who know they won't be engaging in certain types of romance options, whether gay or straight, could close them off entirely while still in character creation. A winning situation for everyone.

Your corret but the s/s supporters want a all or nothing situation.  I personally don't understand it and at this point don't care to understand it.  As they haven't presented one solid reason for not doing i this way.  I don't understand BW position on this either they want to support s/s under the radar and not include a "toggle" by adding it to customization.  Or they they come out and say they support s/s by including one because would certainly grab more attention then not including one. 

To me the "don't talk to this person" method doesn't work and is frankily a cop out and doesn't resolve the issue.

[whywhywhywhy]

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Major Badass. Agreed, I've been hit on twice by by gay guys. One of them was a good friend (and still is, though I haven't seen him for a while since I started going to uni), but man...it was awkward.

I don't have a problem with selecting Shepard's sexual preference, but since I then get accused of irrational homophobia (although the etymology of that word doesn't even mean what people think it means) everytime I voice my opinion on the matter, I've learned that it's just not worth the argument. It's nice that Bioware's acknowledging the homosexual fanbase of Mass Effect, but I just wish they'd remember the straight guys out there as well. For a straight guy, getting...flirted with by a gay guy is mildly uncomfortable, and just not something I could see happening in my head between guys like Shepard and Kaidan. Again, it's not that big a deal for me to ignore it, so I'm not going to make too big a fuss about it.

My other main issue is that we all enjoy the casual flirting (let's be honest, it adds an element of funny to the game) between the characters. Liara and Tali stumbling over themselves, Ashley sneaking sexual innuendo into the conversation, and Shepard complementing Dat Ass with Miranda. Some of the flirting is what puts you onto the romance paths in the first place. So if Kaidan flirts with MShep BEFORE the romance is initiated, then straight guys have to work through the awkward 'not interested' stuff. If he flirts with MShep AFTER the romance is initiated, then the gay fans miss out on what all the straight guys and gals got in the first two games.

Therefore, a 'toggle switch' at the start would work fine from my perspective (and I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it), the gay guys get their flirting and the straight guys keep their precious immersion intact.

Agreed.  I can tell you now you will not get a rational post that can refute yours.

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
There is much truth in what you are saying.

O by the way your........(wait for it)............(almost there)....a........HOMOPHOBE:P

Ya i know you don't have some fear towards g@ys, but i just love misusing words.

LOL

[mineralica]

I totally LOVE how people started to complain about possibility of s/s now while femShep might romance Liara, Kelly, make some moves on Consort or Morinth... f/f is totally acceptable while m/m is bloody horror?

Never thought Anders who was hitting on my mage who romanced Isabela was more irritating that Anders hitting on magess who romanced Fenris. And speaking of Anders - and players response at his actions, - I doubt BioWare would make character who will start make moves on Shepard before Shepard will show interest first.

And speaking of toggle...

- it would be strange to have it in profile (imagine how it first game "het/bi/hom" would be written in military profile... or in second Miranda trying her best to not disturb Shepard's sexuality)

- it blocks part of unwanted romances while leaving other part (it would be irritating to reload from poorly phrased option which caused my Kaidan-romancing Shepard to hit on... say, Jack; but reload because same Shepard started to hit on Jacob from same poorly phrased option is not less irritating)

- if we have flag that makes some thing impossible, then I want flag which blocks all options which make Reapers' victory possible. I even have fancy name for it: win button.
Sarcasm aside, I want to play game and be proud to find a solution for complicated situations myself, not check boxes.

[mauro2222]

Major Badass wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Major Badass wrote...

By canon Shepard, I am referring to the Shepard the player considers canon: the one they've spent two long games playing as. Since my Sheperd in both games was straight, I don't like that he can suddenly end up in a gay romance just because of a few dialogue choices.

JESUS TITTYF!CKING CHRIST

you want a straight shepard? say NO if a dude hits on him.

if they hit on you that doesn't make YOUR character gay, and like you said he CAN "suddenly end up in a gay romance", emphasis on CAN.

The fact that guys are hitting on my character is the main problem.

Also, why are you getting so upset?

I would be flattered if another guy considers me attractive, but that doesn`t mean that I have the obligation to be with him or like him in that way.

[LeVaughnX]

Major Badass wrote...

A lot of people are unhappy that Commander Sheperd, the male version in particular, is now bi-curious. While a few people may oppose this based on irrational homophobia, the vast majority of fans are concerned primarily by the effect on Mass Effect's backstory. This is a major upset, given that the male Shepard was completely straight in the first two games, but there is a way to respect the wishes of those who want their Shepard to be gay while at the same time maintaining the character's canon:

Include sexual orientation in character creation, at the very beginning of the game, with the option to be Heterosexual, Homosexual, or Bisexual. Those who select a heterosexual Shepard would only have access to romance options of the opposite gender, homosexual characters would only have access to their own gender, and bisexual Shepards could do both.

Instituting the option to have a completely straight character would allow the Commander Shepard of Mass Effect 3 canon to remain heterosexual, just as in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. At the same time, players who wanted to pursue gay romances in-game would be able to do so without disrupting the backstory, and those who know they won't be engaging in certain types of romance options, whether gay or straight, could close them off entirely while still in character creation. A winning situation for everyone.

Sexual Orientation in the beginning (like a character profile builder) would be VERY fair and good considering it isn't in Shepards backstory to be gay or bisexual; same with many of the crew (if not all of them!). Changing the character lore in the FINALE is just stupid, wrong, and all around a un-educated thing to do. I'm not homophobic but I am very upset that the franchise is changing so much just because of a specific group of people. They've done this before with games; changing based on one or more groups - sometimes it works but other times it doesn't. Relationships play a small role in the Mass Effect franchise but in some way it doesn't; going into a fight with your head held high due to love is better than being empty with a lot of friends in my mind; so to me it plays a slightly larger role.

Now in DA2 I saw just how bad the bisexuality was; I couldn't "be nice" to any of my male squad members without them trying to jump on my penis for some action (Anders especially). Annnnd it would be very disgusting, rude, and not like the ME2/1 characters to act the same way. I mean Garrus isn't gay - get over it; he would have said something or he just isn't gay! Same with Tali - Thane - Jacob - Kasumi - etc; hell the Psychologist would know flat out whose gay and who isn't, the reason she doesn't say sh*t about Tali's body language when you're a woman is because Tali isn't bisexual or gay. Changing the established lore in the Finale is wrong.

HOWEVER....if Bioware doesn't want to put in the Sexual Orientation option they could simply put in new characters (Squad or NPC) that are bisexual or gay specifically for that group of people. This would be VERY fair; though the s/s community rarely (if never...) is willing to see logic here, so let me say this to chrip them up...

If they didn't admit it now after two or more years of knowing Shepard; they aren't gay. Unless they are cowardly and ashamed of who they are - which means they are lieing to my Shepard - which means they can get the fu*k off my ship because I need people I can trust on it not people who will go out of their way to lie about who they really are. Hell even JACK said that being gay or bi wasn't for her!!! 

Anyway in short - I respect the s/s community though they are full of people who will just flame you for your opinion, call you homophobic, and generally invade every thread / topic just to get their way, annnd they very rarely listen to anyone else - but I respect you for at least having one or two members out of your thousands who aren't complete as*holes like that. I hope all of you can learn to grow and understand things without thinking blindly with your sexuality. Flaunting it around isn't the way to get an ideal and logical change; being polite and trying to come to a compromise thats realistic is.

Cooperation > Seperation.

[darth_lopez]

I like the OPs idea honestly it is a good one definately.

1) it prevents accidentally triggering a romance which lets be honest in DA 2 and ME 2 and ME 1 sometimes you accidentally triggered a romance, i forgot DA 1 didn't i? oh heavens how many times i let poor zevrehn down...he must learn one day that simply because i giver him presents to keep him from stabbing me in the back doesn't mean want a relationship.

2)it fits with the way Bioware already establishes backstory with the shepards Are we not already allowed to select from a list of preset backstories? and Attitudes? why can't we do the same with the sexuality if they are to include bi relationships (not that i dissaprove of the addition for my femshep by my male shep only likes the girls).

3) as i said before stops accidental triggering of a romance which we must admit has been a problem for many a people in past games. Hell i remember one time when i somehow maigcaly triggered a romance with liara in number 1 never having talked to her. I still don't know wtf i did to make that happen.

[Unionhack]

[quote]LeVaughnX wrote...

[quote]Major Badass wrote...

Anyway in short - I respect the s/s community though they are full of people who will just flame you for your opinion, call you homophobic, and generally invade every thread / topic just to get their way, annnd they very rarely listen to anyone else - but I respect you for at least having one or two members out of your thousands who aren't complete as*holes like that. I hope all of you can learn to grow and understand things without thinking blindly with your sexuality. Flaunting it around isn't the way to get an ideal and logical change; being polite and trying to come to a compromise thats realistic is.

Cooperation > Seperation.
[/quote]

QFT.

[Xilizhra]

Now in DA2 I saw just how bad the bisexuality was; I couldn't "be nice" to any of my male squad members without them trying to jump on my penis for some action (Anders especially).

I think you're deranged. Anders had that one-time dialogue flaw, but Fenris doesn't do anything of the sort, and nor do Varric, Sebastian or Carver. All I can parse from this is that Anders was such a shining example of masculinity that he represented all men in the party for you. And is it really that hard to swallow one dialogue screwup for what is is, hit something noncommittal, and then go flirt hardcore with Isabela or someone? I don't want anything to do with naked Anders either, but you don't hear me complaining about it this much... or, for that matter, my Femshep sounding like she's always hitting on Jacob of all people.

Annnnd it would be very disgusting, rude, and not like the ME2/1 characters to act the same way. I mean Garrus isn't gay - get over it; he would have said something or he just isn't gay! Same with Tali - Thane - Jacob - Kasumi - etc; hell the Psychologist would know flat out whose gay and who isn't, the reason she doesn't say sh*t about Tali's body language when you're a woman is because Tali isn't bisexual or gay. Changing the established lore in the Finale is wrong.

Changing the lore in the finale would be wrong. Changing the lore from your, erm, preconceptions of it, however, is not. I see no reason as to why Kelly would parade around sexual orientation info in front of Shepard, and not everyone is willing to talk about whom they're attracted to at all times.

Anyway in short - I respect the s/s community though they are full of people who will just flame you for your opinion, call you homophobic, and generally invade every thread / topic just to get their way, annnd they very rarely listen to anyone else - but I respect you for at least having one or two members out of your thousands who aren't complete as*holes like that. I hope all of you can learn to grow and understand things without thinking blindly with your sexuality. Flaunting it around isn't the way to get an ideal and logical change; being polite and trying to come to a compromise thats realistic is.

All I can say here is that I look forward to your endless torrents of futile whining when the game comes out.

[LeVaughnX]

Xilizhra wrote...

Now in DA2 I saw just how bad the bisexuality was; I couldn't "be nice" to any of my male squad members without them trying to jump on my penis for some action (Anders especially).

I think you're deranged. Anders had that one-time dialogue flaw, but Fenris doesn't do anything of the sort, and nor do Varric, Sebastian or Carver. All I can parse from this is that Anders was such a shining example of masculinity that he represented all men in the party for you. And is it really that hard to swallow one dialogue screwup for what is is, hit something noncommittal, and then go flirt hardcore with Isabela or someone? I don't want anything to do with naked Anders either, but you don't hear me complaining about it this much... or, for that matter, my Femshep sounding like she's always hitting on Jacob of all people.

Annnnd it would be very disgusting, rude, and not like the ME2/1 characters to act the same way. I mean Garrus isn't gay - get over it; he would have said something or he just isn't gay! Same with Tali - Thane - Jacob - Kasumi - etc; hell the Psychologist would know flat out whose gay and who isn't, the reason she doesn't say sh*t about Tali's body language when you're a woman is because Tali isn't bisexual or gay. Changing the established lore in the Finale is wrong.

Changing the lore in the finale would be wrong. Changing the lore from your, erm, preconceptions of it, however, is not. I see no reason as to why Kelly would parade around sexual orientation info in front of Shepard, and not everyone is willing to talk about whom they're attracted to at all times.

Anyway in short - I respect the s/s community though they are full of people who will just flame you for your opinion, call you homophobic, and generally invade every thread / topic just to get their way, annnd they very rarely listen to anyone else - but I respect you for at least having one or two members out of your thousands who aren't complete as*holes like that. I hope all of you can learn to grow and understand things without thinking blindly with your sexuality. Flaunting it around isn't the way to get an ideal and logical change; being polite and trying to come to a compromise thats realistic is.

All I can say here is that I look forward to your endless torrents of futile whining when the game comes out.

And you're the reason Gay people in this community get bad reps; and the reason why so many people dislike gays in real life. If someone is "gay or bi" yet they don't admit it to someone they consider a friend, family, or a loved one for two or more years nor do they somehow magically let it slip in their resume then I would imagine they aren't gay or bisexual. Most of the lore has been established if not all of it - and so far the characters are not gay. Sure Bioware will probably change that; but that just makes them ignorant shi*s to be honest, its like if Master Chief randomly took off his helmet and became a female out of no where just because """CHANGING THE LORE FROM YOUR PRECONCEPTIONS IS BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH"" no - the lore is how the lore is you fu*king anal monkey. I don't care about earning the respect of thick headed asswipes in the community nor do I care if I get banned anymore for standing up against people who have to throw insults around like you do.


Anyway - I'm not whining as much as I'm pointing out a good damned point. S/S is fine but changing the history, lore, story, and characters of a game franchise in the finale is wrong, ignorant, rude, and plainly un-necessary.

I'm all for new characters being gay/bi but I will probably refuse to buy ME3 (and I'm sure there are others out there) just because I'm tired of every fu*king game being altered for one specific group of whiney, bitc*y, mouthy little no-nothings who demand something because they are a specific group of people (wheither they be religious, gay, race, whatever).



COOPERATION - Apparently you have none.

[shepskisaac]

LeVaughnX wrote...
Anyway - I'm not whining

Read your own post.

[Xilizhra]

And you're the reason Gay people in this community get bad reps; and the reason why so many people dislike gays in real life.

How odd. It seemed to me that the only people we had a bad reputation with were a vocal minority of socially maladjusted morons. I do hope you don't associate with that crowd.

If someone is "gay or bi" yet they don't admit it to someone they consider a friend, family, or a loved one for two or more years nor do they somehow magically let it slip in their resume then I would imagine they aren't gay or bisexual.

Closets. They exist. Do you know how many people don't come out to their families for many years on end, if ever?

I'm all for new characters being gay/bi but I will probably refuse to buy ME3 (and I'm sure there are others out there) just because I'm tired of every fu*king game being altered for one specific group of whiney, bitc*y, mouthy little no-nothings who demand something because they are a specific group of people (wheither they be religious, gay, race, whatever).

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you're white.

[jlb524]

LeVaughnX wrote...

I'm all for new characters being gay/bi but I will probably refuse to buy ME3 (and I'm sure there are others out there) just because I'm tired of every fu*king game being altered for one specific group of whiney, bitc*y, mouthy little no-nothings who demand something because they are a specific group of people (wheither they be religious, gay, race, whatever).

COOPERATION - Apparently you have none.

Well, you don't usually have to whine as your demographic is constantly catered to.

I'd love to see what would happen if the tables were possibly to be turned...kind of like they are now, perhaps?

And look at how you're acting!

[Isaidlunch]

Not sure how one would trigger a romance in DA2 accidentally unless you're too lazy to look at the heart icon in the middle of the dialogue wheel.

I would prefer a toggle. If the flak Bioware caught because of Anders is enough to make them regret having him flirt with you (even though it made complete sense) then I'd rather they keep situations like that but toggle it off for people who find it uncomfortable. Everyone wins!

[Xilizhra]

Nyoka wrote...

This discussion is rather six-months-ago.

Assumption of privilege never dies.

[KawaiiKatie]

Kazanth wrote...

Everyone wins!

Except they don't. People who cannot tolerate homosexuality win, but that's about it.

That's my complaint with a sexuality toggle. It validates the mindset that if someone is different than you or makes you uncomfortable, then you should have to deal with them in the first place. The truth is, if someone makes a pass at you and you honestly don't feel the same way, the correct thing to do is politely reject that person, no matter what gender her or she may be, rather than complain that he or she should have been censored in the first place.

Did it make me uncomfortable to have heterosexual advances forced on me throughout ME1 and ME2? Yes, a little. But I would never demand that heterosexuals be "toggled" out of my game so that I wouldn't have to deal with them. It's called tolerance.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 14 septembre 2011 - 12:54 .

[Negam]

Paragon choices trigger romances. You can avoid an unwanted romance, wether s/s or o/p, by not choosing them. Veterans to the series should know this simple-to-follow rule.

[Negam]

*whether s/s or o/s*

[AnAccountWithNoName]

I don't mind this option, if i can choose the gender for my Shepard, why not the sexuality?

[AnAccountWithNoName]

Xilizhra wrote...

And you're the reason Gay people in this community get bad reps; and the reason why so many people dislike gays in real life.

How odd. It seemed to me that the only people we had a bad reputation with were a vocal minority of socially maladjusted morons. I do hope you don't associate with that crowd.

If someone is "gay or bi" yet they don't admit it to someone they consider a friend, family, or a loved one for two or more years nor do they somehow magically let it slip in their resume then I would imagine they aren't gay or bisexual.

Closets. They exist. Do you know how many people don't come out to their families for many years on end, if ever?

I'm all for new characters being gay/bi but I will probably refuse to buy ME3 (and I'm sure there are others out there) just because I'm tired of every fu*king game being altered for one specific group of whiney, bitc*y, mouthy little no-nothings who demand something because they are a specific group of people (wheither they be religious, gay, race, whatever).

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you're white.

Wow that is sterotyping.  Don't do that.  And you do know im sure there are plenty of non-white ME fans who would agree with that guy about not wanting lore changed.

[Xilizhra]

Wow that is sterotyping. Don't do that. And you do know im sure there are plenty of non-white ME fans who would agree with that guy about not wanting lore changed.

Undoubtedly. However, I've never encountered anyone who said something like "one specific group of whiney, bitc*y, mouthy little no-nothings who demand something because they are a specific group of people (wheither they be religious, gay, race, whatever)" who wasn't a white hetero male.

[Repzik]

Then you are committing the same sin as they are.